Step and Repeat

[atlsteve]

I'm working on some business cards and would love to have a step and repeat function. I can place one card front and back and then step and repeat to fill out my layout. It would also be useful for setting cut marks as well.

3.5x2InchBusinessCard_bleed.afpub

[fde101]

Why wouldn't you use a custom 3.5 x 2" page size to design one card then use the tiled print mode?

[atlsteve]

I prefer to lay out my work, I'm old school like that.

[thomaso]

18 hours ago, atlsteve said:

I can place one card front and back and then step and repeat to fill out my layout.

In case you ask how:

1. Select the object(s).
2. Select "Edit" > "Duplicate" to place a copy on same position.
3. With the duplicated object(s) still selected move them to the first new position.
4. Select "Edit" > "Duplicate" for any further copy: it will be placed with the recent offset.

Weird in step 3:
• the transform palette does not tell the new x-/y-values of duplicated objects but remains with those of the first selection's position.
• if I make the move in step 3 not with mouse but by entering new values in transform panel than the duplicated offset is double than wanted. Possibly a bug?
 

18 hours ago, atlsteve said:

It would also be useful for setting cut marks as well. 

Can be done old school style, too: Include the crop marks in your selected objects of step 1.
An auto-crop mark generation feature could become real later, for instance when APub becomes scriptable.

[thpook]

On 12/21/2018 at 11:34 AM, fde101 said:

Why wouldn't you use a custom 3.5 x 2" page size to design one card then use the tiled print mode?

You can do that, and it isn't wrong or bad. However if you are making a document for a client, you want to provide them with a print ready file. Say they want you to make them a 10-up business card that they can take to a print shop so they can have a small run of cards done... do you think your client would appreciate being charged extra by the print shop to do the multi up for them? You can't rely on them owning the program or knowing how to do the multi-up, so an easy way to do Step and Repeat is necessary.

[mac_heibu]

@thpook, did you read thomaso‘s post?

„Duplicate“ is able to mimic „step & “repeat“: 

 

[thpook]

1 hour ago, mac_heibu said:

@thpook, did you read thomaso‘s post?

Yes, I did. It is similar in methodology to the transform command in AI, but it is not a step and repeat command. Using the business card example, I have my 2x3.5 business card file placed on the artboard, I select the file, and select Transform Each (in Illustrator) and I can set the amount the file will be copied, say horizontally by 3.5 inches, and then select both instances of the file, Transform each again and copy the files vertically by 2 inches, and the use the transform again command to fill in the page.  This can be made into an action, so you really only need to select the first file and run the action to do what you need to do. In indesign, you can use the step and repeat tool and create as a grid and do it in one click.

The way affinity publisher and designer handle this is (in my opinion) kludgy and isn't fast. You can ctrl+alt drag the file to copy it and place it where you like, then select the 2 files and do it again, then you can use the duplicate command until you fill the page, then you have to go back and make sure the files are placed correctly using the transform tool which takes time. OR, you can select the first file, then hit ctrl +j, select the new duplicate, set it's position using the transform tool, select the 2 placed files, use ctrl +j to duplicate, then set the position using the transform tool because the duplicate command doesn't duplicate item positions if you set their positions using the transform tool, and repeat that ad nauseam until the page is full. This is not macroable as far as I can tell. I could probably setup the file with guides and use the snap function to ease the correct placing of the files, but I prefer to set the precise location of duplicated items using the transform tool. Why eyeball it when I can place it precisely where I want it?

I have been using design software professionally for a long while, and honestly this is not acceptable TO ME in a professional design suite. Time is money, and having to manually position duplicate files takes time. The minimum acceptable solution is the ability to macro the common layouts I use, but a strong and robust multiple duplicate tool is what I want and need in a design program. Sorry about the essay, but I really do like the software and would like to see it have a suite of good and useful tools (while avoiding bloat), and I feel I really need to explain what I would like in the final version and what I don't like in the current beta.

TLDR: Printing tiled isn't a good option, thomaso's suggestions work BUT aren't great and the current duplicate tool needs a whole lot of work to meet my needs as a user

[fde101]

8 hours ago, thpook said:

You can do that, and it isn't wrong or bad. However if you are making a document for a client, you want to provide them with a print ready file. Say they want you to make them a 10-up business card that they can take to a print shop so they can have a small run of cards done... do you think your client would appreciate being charged extra by the print shop to do the multi up for them?

This could also be solved by offering the different print layouts (such as the tiled mode) when doing a PDF export in addition to placing them in the Print dialog.  That has come up a few times and I would hope would not be too difficult of a feature request to have in place.

That way you could indeed produce a "print ready" file (a PDF) to hand the client, which would not rely on the print shop doing the layout or on either they or the client having the required software as PDF is fairly universal.

[mac_heibu]

@thpook, yes, we all know, that „Step & Repeat“ is better. But we shouldn’t pretend, it costs so much more time if we do it the other way round. As my father used to say: „Working is a labour. Unfortunately.“

As I always say in these situations: Don’t expect an application in its initial release to cover all features, with you are used from an application, which is on the market for decades.

[fde101]

1 hour ago, thpook said:

The way affinity publisher and designer handle this is (in my opinion) kludgy and isn't fast.

Granted that the currently available solutions might not be the most optimal for people doing that particular somewhat specialized task day in and day out.  As @mac_heibu pointed out, they are not bad either, and this software is in its infancy so not every "required" feature of every user will be present in the first release.  The same was true of InDesign when it was first released, and Final Cut Pro X certainly was like that as well in the video editing world...  professional software is built over time, it doesn't always happen right away.  The current features, once refined, should cover a lot of use cases and allows Serif to get something useful out the door that will work for many people.  Some on the forum are (granted very questionably) already using it for professional work so obviously it is meeting the needs of some users.

Getting the first release polished and out the door will provide Serif with income from all this work and help to further support the addition of the things that will help to polish the workflow and support the needs of still more [potential] users.

[Aammppaa]

1. Design your business card and save it "Business Card 1"
2. Create a new document, and place Business Card 1 as a linked, embedded object.
3. Use Power Duplicate to create array of (say 3x3) cards.
   Note: You only ever need to do this once for each size of card that you make.
4. Save this file as "3x3 Business Cards".

From now on laying out new business cards takes seconds…

1. Create your new business card and save as "Business Card 2"
2. Open 3x3 Business Cards.
3. Use the Resource Manger to replace the existing card with Business Card 2.

Done.

 

[thomaso]

6 hours ago, thpook said:

(...) you can select the first file, then hit ctrl +j, select the new duplicate, set it's position using the transform tool, select the 2 placed files, use ctrl +j to duplicate, then set the position using the transform tool because the duplicate command doesn't duplicate item positions if you set their positions using the transform tool, and repeat that ad nauseam until the page is full. (...)
thomaso's suggestions work BUT aren't great and the current duplicate tool needs a whole lot of work to meet my needs as a user 

You seem not to take full advantage of the Duplicate feature: Once you have duplicated the 1st object and moved it then you simply use Duplicate again, again, again. No, there is no need to select the 1st + 2nd object to get a 3rd + 4th, instead you simply keep on duplicating the 2nd as often you like;  just 1 click for each copy, I'd say less than 1 second for all of them in 1 direction.

Also, meanwhile, the issue of December in transform panel got fixed. So, you can move the first duplicate via the transform panel. For instance for a horizontal move you simply add (!) the objects width to the X field and hit enter. This needs to be done only once for x/y direction.

Yes, I agree, real Step & Repeat would be nice – but it would not save so much time you seem to want us believe.
 

[thpook]

4 hours ago, thomaso said:

You seem not to take full advantage of the Duplicate feature: Once you have duplicated the 1st object and moved it then you simply use Duplicate again, again, again. No, there is no need to select the 1st + 2nd object to get a 3rd + 4th, instead you simply keep on duplicating the 2nd as often you like;  just 1 click for each copy, I'd say less than 1 second for all of them in 1 direction.

Also, meanwhile, the issue of December in transform panel got fixed. So, you can move the first duplicate via the transform panel. For instance for a horizontal move you simply add (!) the objects width to the X field and hit enter. This needs to be done only once for x/y direction.

Yes, I agree, real Step & Repeat would be nice – but it would not save so much time you seem to want us believe.
 

When I select the first set of files to be duplicated then use ctrl + j, then set where I want the copies to be using the transform dialog, the next duplication sets the duplicates on top of the originals instead of moving the copies to where I want them. I then have to select the new duplicates and set their positions using the transform tool. The items I am duplicating are still selected when I do all this, so am I doing it wrong?

The use case scenario I used was very simple. It is not unrealistic for me to do business cards for an organization... so yes it would save time for doing a 8/10/12 up business card if I am doing it for an org of 50 people or more, though in that case I would design them all 1-up, set up the first page right, duplicate the full page x many times and use the links or assets tool to update the links on the following pages.

I think all are misunderstanding that this is beta software and by stating my opinions I am saying how I expect things to work, not complaining that beta software isn't "full-featured" or saying that the software is bad. I was very clear in describing my experience and expectations because those statements should be of value to the developers. I want the software to succeed!

[Old Bruce]

56 minutes ago, thpook said:

When I select the first set of files to be duplicated then use ctrl + j, then set where I want the copies to be using the transform dialog, the next duplication sets the duplicates on top of the originals instead of moving the copies to where I want them. I then have to select the new duplicates and set their positions using the transform tool. The items I am duplicating are still selected when I do all this, so am I doing it wrong?

The use case scenario I used was very simple. It is not unrealistic for me to do business cards for an organization... so yes it would save time for doing a 8/10/12 up business card if I am doing it for an org of 50 people or more, though in that case I would design them all 1-up, set up the first page right, duplicate the full page x many times and use the links or assets tool to update the links on the following pages.

I think all are misunderstanding that this is beta software and by stating my opinions I am saying how I expect things to work, not complaining that beta software isn't "full-featured" or saying that the software is bad. I was very clear in describing my experience and expectations because those statements should be of value to the developers. I want the software to succeed!

"...then set where I want the copies to be using the transform dialog,..." How exactly are you doing this? On windows you may only get to set the new coordinates once for each x, y, h, w, rotation and shear. On Mac I have a fair bit of leeway.

I select whatever then hit (on Mac here) Command + J. I have a copy of whatever occupying the same coordinates of the first whatever.

Then I enter the distance I want the copy of whatever to be in the transform panel (either x or y or both) , hit enter or tab so the new coordinations are set, I can see the copy of whatever move then I hit Command + J again and a third copy is moved from the old new copy of whatever by the same amount. And continue for as many copies as I want.

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, thpook said:

When I select the first set of files to be duplicated then use ctrl + j, then set where I want the copies to be using the transform dialog, the next duplication sets the duplicates on top of the originals instead

Just to make shure: Select only the 1st, the 'original' object – and do not deselect any until you've got the row / column finished.