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5 minutes ago, Steps said:

So having some sort of drop down first with presets "Photo", "Vector", "DTP" (followed by custom configurations) would be a possible UX.

I would rather not have the icons hidden under a drop down if they can be easily displayed like they are now.

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Adobe has been trying to cram functionality of many apps for over a decade now to little success and I am very questionable that Serif is going to do it right. I love the fact that personas are not hidden under drop down menus especially when working from a large screen. Remember too that Affinity needs to work on smaller sized iPad screens now as well so the everything and the kitchen sink approach becomes impossible. Also iPads are very limited on resources compared to PCs/Macs.

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2 minutes ago, KipV said:

I am very questionable that Serif is going to do it right.

Me certainly not. They have the right idea and they direct their work straight to a very good thing.

Yes, many areas are unpolished and the complete tool needs love in places, but the direction is correct.

In another topic I just stated that I strongly believe that Affinity will be disruptive because of it's tight integration approach.

Yes, I'm a big fan of Affinity even if I have many critism about it.

But since I spent my spare time here I seem to care about this project somehow.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809). Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Publisher Beta 1.7.0.221

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Just realize that nobody has succeeded in doing what you are purposing with all the graphics companies that have been out there for decades. I am not counting on Serif having superpowers. They still need to work within the constrains of the current hardware, for an example many of the newest iPad Pros to hit the market only have 4 GB of ram that this super app is going to run on.

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1 minute ago, KipV said:

I am not counting on Serif having superpowers.

No, they certainly have not. But they have 30 years of experience in this field and the bravery to throw it all away just to start over with a new plan and vision.

This is even not a thing Adobe dares to do. We should credit Serif for that.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809). Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Publisher Beta 1.7.0.221

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Most of there experience hasn't been as a direct competitor to Adobe/Macromedia/Aldus. As I understand it they have been more of a consumer graphics company and are just now taking on the pro market for the first time ever. Again I don't know how they would build it (whatever their skill set) given the extreme technical limitations / high cost of an iPad Pro. A 6gb of ram Pro is close to the $2000 mark. Even if every Affinity user had the latest tablet the specs still wouldn't be enough to make the type of product some people seem to want to. I believe Adobe's app cross pollination has been more about trying to sell people software updates then the best long term strategy to take.

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1 hour ago, KipV said:

Most of there experience hasn't been as a direct competitor to Adobe/Macromedia/Aldus. As I understand it they have been more of a consumer graphics company and are just now taking on the pro market for the first time ever. Again I don't know how they would build it (whatever their skill set) given the extreme technical limitations / high cost of an iPad Pro. A 6gb of ram Pro is close to the $2000 mark. Even if every Affinity user had the latest tablet the specs still wouldn't be enough to make the type of product some people seem to want to. I believe Adobe's app cross pollination has been more about trying to sell people software updates then the best long term strategy to take.

Why do you think that the mobile app is so important?

I may miss something, but I consider this to be a toy.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809). Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Publisher Beta 1.7.0.221

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1 hour ago, Steps said:

Why do you think that the mobile app is so important?

I may miss something, but I consider this to be a toy.

Because people want to draw with something that is like a paper drawing pad and the iPad is closer to that then a Mac. The first iPad and first iOS were not up to the task of running a serious drawing app and that is the reason they waited so long to bring Affinity to iPad. However as I understand it the feature set on iPad is very close to Mac/Windows with the gap only continuing to close in. What will not close in any time soon is the giant spec difference between computer and iPad. This is a serious category because even Adobe has announced bringing Photoshop over to the iPad. If anything could even say there will be more innovation happening on the iPad since the computer version of a lot of these desktop apps is pretty mature.

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Another thing about the iPad is this is an area were Serif is easily beating Adobe. The latest desktop version of Photoshop has copied some of the Affinity features but they still don't have Photoshop and Illustrator on iPad. And even when they come out with that they probably won't be as far along.

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15 hours ago, KipV said:

They still need to work within the constrains of the current hardware, for an example many of the newest iPad Pros to hit the market only have 4 GB of ram that this super app is going to run on.

It is not the task of programmers to program for dreamed hardware, or to encourage users to buy more powerful hardware. They should write good programs for existing and common hardware.


My Specs:
- Processor: AMD Phenom™ II X4 955 Processor 3.20 GHz- RAM: 8 GB
- Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250
- Monitor: SyncMaster F2380 (resolution 1920x1080)
- Operating system: Windows 10 Pro (1803) / 64 bit

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11 hours ago, KipV said:

Because people want to draw with something that is like a paper drawing pad and the iPad is closer to that then a Mac.

I would argue that would be a better reason to bring something like Corel Painter to the iPad rather than something like Publisher, though it still works for Photo and to a slightly lesser extent Designer.  There are enough android netbooks out there by now that bringing a program like Publisher to android or chrome would make a lot more sense than bringing it to iPad.

 

15 hours ago, KipV said:

I would rather not have the icons hidden under a drop down if they can be easily displayed like they are now.

I would also, as long as there is room for them.  I was just pointing out that there are ways to do this and that this particular restriction was not on its own a valid reason not to merge the apps.

 

14 hours ago, KipV said:

Just realize that nobody has succeeded in doing what you are purposing with all the graphics companies that have been out there for decades.

To look at a parallel to this, consider what Blackmagic Design has done with Davinci Resolve.  They have taken a professional-level color grading application with some basic editing capabilities and expanded that editor to something truly professional-grade then added a nearly complete DAW (mostly just missing MIDI capabilities) and now a node-based compositing tool to create a one-stop-shop for all things post production, providing a certain level of consistency to the interfaces while still giving each of them the uniqueness of an interface that is optimized for a specific type of task - the DAW works like a DAW, the node-based compositor like a node-based compositor, the color grading tool is the real thing and not just a plugin or panel tucked away inside the editor.

You switch between the tools in Resolve in much the same manner as switching between personas in the Affinity applications, and because they all work from the same underlying project, they are kept in sync with each other and there is no need to convert files back and forth between them like there is with virtually every other post-production solution out on the market.

While you could argue that this is a rather different field (video production as opposed to still image work), I would point out that what they are doing with Resolve is in theory MUCH harder than trying to bring together the types of programs we are talking about here (Photo, Designer, Publisher).  The current version of Resolve still has some rough edges around stability with the integration of Fusion but on the whole they have very much succeeded in integrating programs that would have been much more difficult than what is being talked about here.

 

That having been said, while it does show precedent for what is being discussed, we are off topic from where the thread started anyway, and I still don't see the same benefit from this merger of three applications that is achieved within Resolve.  With post-production there are often teams involved and the paid version of Resolve has the networked team workflow to really leverage the integration in ways that don't really apply to these programs, and even for people working solo it eliminates the messy XML and conforming workflows involved in shuttling data between the editor and coloring/audio programs.

The solution the Affinity products are using (common file format, "Edit in Photo", etc.) have impressed me as working quickly for those times you really need the features of the other application and while I could see that getting somewhat annoying if you were switching between the products a lot (a different workflow could theoretically be designed to help to cut back on this significantly) I do think that the one case that would be likely to happen most frequently would be the transition from Publisher to Photo, and if we have correctly interpreted the way that the personas will work in Publisher, then once that is enabled I believe that concern should be mostly eliminated (except maybe for RAW files unless they also make the Develop persona available in Publisher, which might not be a bad suggestion...  maybe for 1.8?).

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I was just thinking about another advantage of the having pro-typing with both Design and Publisher. Some people may start making a symbol in Designer and then have that symbol available in Publisher when it comes to making layouts. One product is good at assembling the pieces and one is good at layout them out. This may make a lot more sense then relying on a one product solution like Sketch. I am still not sure having one type of work focused on print and another on screen is enough reason to keep programs separate (ie InDesign, XD.)

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11 minutes ago, KipV said:

I was just thinking about another advantage of the having pro-typing with both Design and Publisher. Some people may start making a symbol in Designer and then have that symbol available in Publisher when it comes to making layouts. One product is good at assembling the pieces and one is good at layout them out. This may make a lot more sense then relying on a one product solution like Sketch. I am still not sure having one type of work focused on print and another on screen is enough reason to keep programs separate (ie InDesign, XD.)

Yes, I assume Serif had such workflows in mind by deciding to bring Publisher with a Vector Persona.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809). Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Publisher Beta 1.7.0.221

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49 minutes ago, Steps said:

Yes, I assume Serif had such workflows in mind by deciding to bring Publisher with a Vector Persona.

It's also why I don't think it makes sense to push out Publisher as quickly as many people want it. I think the product has to be a bit more ambitious then a ID/Quark catch up tool.

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Just now, KipV said:

It's also why I don't think it makes sense to push out Publisher as quickly as many people want it. I think the product has to be a bit more ambitious then a ID/Quark catch up tool.

It's all about the Affinity Trinity they planned for all along.

Consider the already released Designer & Photo as sneak peaks whats about to come. :D


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809). Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Publisher Beta 1.7.0.221

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@KipV I was wrong at the beginning of the topic and @MEB was right all along.

You don't have to wait for Publisher!

Designer in the stable version already does what you need for prototyping.

I just trialed it and learned it has a Artboard feature I was not aware of.

This is a way you can similar to Sketch design your single windows or pages for a workflow.

The Export Persona lets you export every ArtBoard to a single file.

I just did a quick test and I think it's perfectly suited for designing UI mockups.

Designer also has already an Assets panel with icons for iOS.

I believe the ArtBoard feature is meant for what you asked.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809). Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz, 16 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Publisher Beta 1.7.0.221

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@Steps I am still pretty new to Sketch to do a direct comparison between the two apps but what appeals to me about Affinity is that it is a suite rather then just a one off program. I was aware of artboards I they have some limitations over pages if I remember right. I was using it for a layout program quite a bit in 2017 so was acutely aware of what it could and could not do (visual bleed marks in the program itself, for an example, was something it couldn't do.)

Part of the appeal of having it in Publisher is that a designer could take their layouts they did in a book or other print piece and easily use those interface elements in their prototyping work. The thing about designer is that it is not a great layout tool (it's not supposed to be one after all.)

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I don't think the linear nature of book design and an application designed for laying out long documents (books and magazines) is the best match for someone whose job it is to prototype the hierarchical and interactive tree structure of a hyperlinked website or a phone app.

For sure, it may be nice to be able export individual pages from a successful book design in the form of AF Designer artboards as starting points for the purpose of prototyping interactive screen designs for web or for mobile apps, but AF Publisher (IMHO) is not the tool for interactive design prototyping, rather AF Designer is better suited, assuming that Affinity does not plan to develop a separate dedicated prototyping tool.

If AF Designer were to incorporate an Interactive Prototyping Persona, then they might extend the app to be able to wire up the artboards to reflect page hierarchy and linking behavior. Otherwise, they should develop a fourth, dedicated app in the existing suite of apps.

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Not just books and magazines but any type of print layout. Whether the output is for print or screen makes little difference until you get to the coding stage which prototyping isn't about. The main reason InDesign doesn't have prototyping is that this area was too new to incorporate when that program was released. Had InDesign and Fireworks been made by the same company it is likely that we would have seen some kind of a combination early on. I think the reason XD and InDesign are seperate is because their initial releases are separated by decades. Had they been starting both products at version one today I doubt they would be separate.

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