AP won't align images properly...

[Andrew G.]

Have reached a point of mad frustration. AP does NOT align images well for me, especially when focus stacking...even when I shoot multiple images on a tripod. What am I doing wrong, or is this program simply very weak in this regard? Help!

[firstdefence]

Do you have a set of example files we can look at?

[Andrew G.]

When I try to upload images the "upload fails" with -200.

[firstdefence]

Have you tried the same images in another stacking app like Zerene Stacker just to get a comparison, not saying there isn't something wrong with Affinity Photo's focus stacking just want to see if you get better results from a comparison App.

https://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/softwaredownloads they offer a trial so you can try an example, if that image come out misaligned the chances are there is something wrong with the image not Affinity Photo, if it comes out fine, I'd say Affinity Photo has a problem.

Re your upload issue, I would try uploading to: https://imgbb.com you don't need an account but its a good idea to register one as its a very useful website for image hosting. You can then copy a link and paste into these posts, like this...

This is the code you post to get the image below, this is auto generated and is as simple as copying and pasting.

[url=https://ibb.co/YtsB7wS][img=https://i.ibb.co/gDKZMh8/dawn-190053.jpg][/url]

[R C-R]

21 hours ago, Andrew G. said:

AP does NOT align images well for me, especially when focus stacking...even when I shoot multiple images on a tripod.

When you shoot these images for focus merging, for every shot are you keeping all camera settings (shutter speed, aperture, lens zoom, etc.) except focus the same, & only changing the focus for each of them?

[Andrew G.]

Hi R C-R! Yes, I'm shooting in manual and keeping all settings the same. Also shooting on a tripod. Nevertheless, the images won't align properly... all kinds of halos and anomolies where the program stitches the images together. Very frustrating!

[Andrew G.]

Here are three images (an experimental focus stack) that won't align properly in my AP program... -Andrew-

https://ibb.co/fQXyGBb
https://ibb.co/7rCH2wK
https://ibb.co/gFLybkp

 

 

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, Andrew G. said:

Here are three images (an experimental focus stack) that won't align properly in my AP program... 

I assumed the intent was to bring as much into focus as possible, so I downloaded the 3 full sized images (saved as jpgs) & used File > New Focus Merge (not New Stack!) for that. The .afphoto file size is a bit large to upload here, but this is a ½ size jpg export of the result:

I am not totally sure what the scene looked like in the real world, but everything looks very well aligned to me.

[Andrew G.]

Thanks R C-R, I very much appreciate you taking the time to offer assistance. However, I still see problems with the rock/ water interface in the lower third of the photo, the transition between the two not being very clean at all. I don't think I am being overly critical (but perhaps so?). If this "misalignment" is the best AP can do, could anyone suggest a "better" program than AP for doing focus merging/ stacking? Thanks folks! -A-

[firstdefence]

Zerene Stacker and Helicon Focus are the go to apps for focus merging, you can also use Hugin but it gets a bit messy, EnFuse is also an option but that is command line although there is a GUI for it as well.

[dutchshader]

just tried Zerene stacker, and the result is the same as in photo.

[firstdefence]

I've a done the same and you can see the ghosting.
 

If you select Dmap as the stacking option and set the contrast to something like 95-96% you can remove the ghosting.

[firstdefence]

This is the exported image using map @96.6% sized to 50% scale.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

I've a done the same and you can see the ghosting.

But is that maybe just the result of working with jpeg source images that had lossy compression applied?

1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

If you select Dmap as the stacking option and set the contrast to something like 95-96% you can remove the ghosting.

I see that, but is it actually bringing anything into better focus or just removing the artifacts caused by lossy compression in the source images?

If nothing else, it would be interesting to see what Affinity Photo's focus merge could do with uncompressed images.

[Andrew G.]

Thank you R C-R, dutchshader and firstdefense! I'm going to go out today (Sunday) and shoot a landscape with a large depth of field in it and take multiple raw images of it at various focal points (same camera settings and on a tripod). Then I'll monkey around with them/ download them here in order to see what's up. As a newbie, I thought it was as simple as just putting the images into AP and "voila", everything would line up perfectly. Live and learn! 

[John Rostron]

I suspect that the problem might result from there only being three images. Most focus stacks would have more. I have not been able to look at your images on my tablet. I will have a go when I get home after the weekend.

John

 

[firstdefence]

8 hours ago, R C-R said:

But is that maybe just the result of working with jpeg source images that had lossy compression applied?

That's possible R C-R, I think the foreground rock edge was a bit soft and with only 3 images its a bit of a struggle hence the high contrast percentile.

I think with uncompressed images like TIFF's or the original RAW files and a few more images to the stack it should be very doable within Affinity Photo, although Zerene is a very capable app for this sort of photography.

[Andrew G.]

Good day of experimentation folks. As you guys suggested, adding more images (5-7 total) to a stack made a big improvement in the alignment process, as did using an f stop of around 11 for each image. Greater care was also taken to focus one of the images on any hard edges or lines in the scene. In short, greater photography care BEFORE going to AP has made a huge difference. I'll continue to experiment over the next few days and get back to this "stream" soon. Now I've got to figure out what you guys are talking about when you discuss Dmapping, etc. -A-

[Andrew G.]

Ok...more problems. AP "Focus Merging" really struggles with alignment of images when there are only a prominent foreground subject and a far distant subject (with nothing to focus on in between) in a desired image. Then I get all kinds of ghosting and other anomolies in a rendered image. Help!

https://ibb.co/jRqXmC8
https://ibb.co/QN1qY5v
https://ibb.co/b30yyQ7

[firstdefence]

What is the difference between PMax and DMap?

PMax is a “pyramid” method. It is very good at finding and preserving detail even in low contrast or slightly blurred areas. It's also very good at handling overlapping structures like mats of hair and crisscrossing bristles, nicely avoiding the loss-of-detail halos typical of other stacking programs. But PMax tends to increase noise and contrast, it can alter colors somewhat, and it's liable to produce fuzzy “inversion halos” around strongly contrasting objects.

DMap is a “depth map” method. It does a better job keeping the original smoothness and colors, but it's not as good at finding and preserving detail.

The two methods complement each other. Some types of subjects look good when they are processed automatically by PMax, but not by DMap. Other subjects are just the opposite. For particularly challenging subjects like bugs and flowers shot through microscope objectives, neither method is ideal by itself. In that case the best results are obtained by using human judgment and the retouching tool to combine the best aspects of both algorithms.

Affinity doesn't offer any focus stacking parameters, it just kind of happens, it would be interesting to know what method affinity uses for focus stacking.