Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Any Industrial Design Studio and Architectural Studio combines artistic as well as technical computing needs.
Both industries aren't exactly what one could call a niche. Yes, it may well be, that a specialized machine operator
isn't the one who besides CAM programming does a lot of artistical vector or pixel editing. On the other hand,
especially in smaller offices people have a lot of responsabilities –personally I have been involved with all the
mentioned and many other things.

Making what Vector and Pixel editors can do available for direct machining is not my interest and I didn't express this
anywhere. What I explained several times already is that such offices besides possibly running machines also
create a lot of graphical data, posters,  documentations, books and brochures, websites, video clips. This data
needs to get shared and processed by team members with various different professional backgrounds, responsabilities
and - yes -also hardware preferences. In such contexts it has proven useful to have at least the two most
important os's supported as trying to run a highly diverse enterprise on just one os is a darn unrealistic goal.

It likely is quite another story with the streamlined CAM business your family offers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our company has been entirely based on Windows PCs for doing the manufacturing work and we are a small company. We never do the designing of the products but our role is in helping our customers figure out how they can make their products get manufactured.

 

As far as the promo work at our company I do all the promo work (websites, email ads, trade show displays, posters, ID badges, handout material, mailers, signage, forms, logos, studio photography, business cards, etc)  and it doesn't requires any back and forth exchanging of graphics files with anyone else on the team. No else knows how to the graphic design software and even if they did they weren't trained as designers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's certainly many firms which profit from dividing disciplines as clearly as your firm does.

And there's many who don't. Here's a typical job posting for an architect, here's one for an Industrial Designer.

They are not looking for an entire team, they ask a single person to combine all these skills.

 

It is of course still possible to continue saying that I'm seeing things the wrong way...

Or that certain industries should reorganize their workflows – but my time for senseless disputes is rather limited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if one person really needs to know all that (keeping in mind many people who make job postings don't understand the immensity of what they are asking for in the post and tend to exaggerate the requirements) then I could see a person in that position having a number of choices. They could stay entirely on Windows using Illustrator. Or perhaps with the latest influx of drawing apps on tablets they might prefer to do a drawing on a tablet and then bring it in to the PC to then use with their architecture / 3D software. Maybe they will even have a CAD software on touch screen soon and they could just stay in a touch environment.

 

It is of course still possible to continue saying that I'm seeing things the wrong way...

Or that certain industries should reorganize their workflows – but my time for senseless disputes is rather limited.

 

No, I never said you are seeing things the wrong way, here is a quote from my first post in that other thread:

"If you feel that being cross platform is “the right way to do things” then it seems like your ideal set up is already available today."

 

I am just trying to say different software companies are trying different approaches and time will tell what solution works best for the majority of people.  Lots of design software is Mac only and lots of software is cross platform. Try the different ways of working and then go with the way that is best for you. I am certainly not trying to suggest that everyone should convert to Mac and start using Affinity Designer because that is "the right way."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could stay entirely on Windows using Illustrator. Or perhaps with the latest influx of drawing apps on tablets they might prefer

to do a drawing on a tablet and then bring it in to the PC to then use with their  architecture / 3D software.

 

Then one still needed to exchange data with colleagues, who sit in front of another os.

 

 

  Lots of design software is Mac only and lots of software is cross platform.

 

There is exactly one cross platform offering in the 2D graphics field, made by Adobe.

 

 

"If you feel that being cross platform is “the right way to do things” then it seems like your ideal set up is already available today."

 

Ideal? You must be joking.

With CC Adobe effectively has set up a system which binds access to data (= intellectual property) to continous payment.

When a CC customer decides to stop paying because the recent development direction is irrelevant for his work – all installed software expires.

It may be that one can open .psd files or .ai files with 3rd party products but this with complex content inevitably is tremendously lossy.

Other files as written by Indesign, Adobe's video editing products or Web-Editors can't get opened with anything else. One essentially

loses access to all work files.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@hifred, @KipV

 

Which is essentially the reason we're all here...because we don't like the idea of being forced to design with a virtual gun to our collective head. By binding our potential intellectual property to their software which now must be paid for forever, Adobe is essentially robbing us and holding our work for hostage...IF you take the dip with them. I have to use CS6/CC at work but at home:

 

In place of | Alternative

 

Premiere Pro | Lightworks (PC/Mac), HitFilm (PC/Mac)

AfterEffects | HitFilm (PC/Mac), Autodesk Composite (PC/Mac), Blender (PC/Mac) and Motion (Mac)

Photoshop | GIMP (PC/Mac), Krita (PC), Pixelmator (Mac), Affinity Designer (Mac)

Illustrator | Affinity Designer (Mac), Freehand MX (PC/Mac - w/VirtualBox or Snow Leopard), DrawPlus (PC/Mac - w/VirtualBox)

InDesign | Freehand MX (PC/Mac - w/VirtualBox or Snow Leopard), Scribus (PC/Mac), PagePlus (PC)

Acrobat | PagePlus (PC/Mac - w/VirtualBox), Scribus (PC/Mac)

 

In the interest of full disclosure, it has to be admitted that I am still have InDesign CS5 and Acrobat 8 Pro (using Distiller 8 to distill my PDFs from PS files produced by Freehand and Affinity Designer when necessary). Mostly designing in PagePlus X6/X7 and exporting directly to PDF-X from there.

 

Like everyone else...waiting for Publisher so I can finally cut the umbilical cord to the Big Red "A."

 

While I do understand the necessity to have to know Adobe's software for anyone trying to get into the business--as they are the "industry standard"--it will be refreshing, if it ever happens, to see someone value the work itself more than what one used to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, the above is not intended to be a comprehensive list of alternatives available; they're just what I'm comfortable using.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Affinity Suite should be well developed into Mac before going "overseas" :) ...

 +1


Mac OS X Catinlina, 2014 iMac, 3.5 Ghz Intel Core i7, Huion Kamvas Pro 22 Graphic Tablet, 16GB RAM, MacOS10.12 || Magic keyboard w/numeric keypad, wireless trackpad, Kengsington Edge Trackball || Flux Capacitor in a secure location

---

I encourage kids to go ahead and play on my lawn. I mean, how else can I make sure the death-traps work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Then one still needed to exchange data with colleagues, who sit in front of another os.”
That is what all the cloud based services are for.  If you are on an iPad save the work to iCloud Drive and open the iCloud Drive app on your PC for an example.


“There is exactly one cross platform offering in the 2D graphics field, made by Adobe.”
If you had a Mac you could run Affinity and your Windows software at the same time. PCs have more resources then ever these days so running two OSes at a time is a very realistic workflow.

“When a CC customer decides to stop paying because the recent development direction is irrelevant for his work – all installed software expires.”
Well Adobe needs to pay a lot of employees to make software for a dozen different environments. They can’t pay for all that development when there are customers skipping 2 or 3 product upgrades. They need constant cash flow to to have such a broad level of support. Why do I need to pay someone to make editing tools for my cellphone? Why do I need to pay someone to develop for Windows 8 when most Windows users are on Windows 7? This is the challenge that Adobe is doing these days. They have this idea that we have all these platforms so we have to develop for all of them. This seems bonkers to me and many others here and is a questionable long term strategy for the company.

“Other files as written by Indesign, Adobe's video editing products or Web-Editors can't get opened with anything else. One essentially loses access to all work files.”
Yep, this is why some have switched to Final Cut (which is better optimized for Mac hardware like the new Mac Pro), iBooks Author (which ID has played catch up to in the version that they just announced yesterday. Just look at the HTML animation tool that has been in iBooks Author for the last year or two.) I am not heavy into the coding part of web editors but I know many people prefer Mac tools like Coda, Espresso, etc. over Dreamweaver. I am currently looking at some software that might do a good job at creating email ads.

If you are willing to try the Mac there are many great graphics titles that deliver lots of free updates without any subscription and great customer support. You’ll have to decide if that is for you or not. I have been happy on the Mac and others here I’m sure feel the same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets please agree that we look at the problem from very different backgrounds and that
we draw different conclusions. Neither can I see cloud services as universal collaboration problem

solvers (for a bunch of reasons) nor would I personally profit from switching to the Mac
(for an even greater bunch of reasons).

I also judge on Adobe quite differently – they managed to run the Creative Suite for about
a decade and without any doubt could have continued. Just look at their fiscal numbers - they
are the 7th greatest software maker in the world and employ >11000 people.

What they now do is economically brilliant of course, as it guarantees a continous stream of money
and limits support to just the current version number (which is huge). But it's highly unetical too.

Anyway - I'm out for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Affinity Suite should be well developed into Mac before going "overseas" :) ...

 

.... or EVER go to the other side maybe. Companies like OmniGroup have proved that you can have a great business for several decades on end by being Apple only. Omni focuses on leading Mac business software and Affinity could possibly take the same route as being the graphics version of Omni. Maybe they don't expand to other platforms and just gradually keep building the product line. If Affinity starts to go cross platform they then become more Adobe like which makes you wonder what the differential advantage with Adobe would be. If they stuck with the same narrow focus the benefits over Adobe would be obvious. The later choice would be the wisest in my opinion. It's hard to compete cross platform with an established company that has saturated every platform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fun thread to read, but basically nothing more than a wouldja-couldja collection of opinion posts. 

 

Here's mine.

 

IMHO, Affinity Designer being Mac only is what it is. If the usability and feature set (even in its 1.x incarnation) is any indication, a metric ton of thought was put into the app and the direction of development. Right now, anything outside of feature requests (which doesn't include OS migration/porting) or bug reporting is just idle speculation and not really productive at all.

 

I'd rather see AD develop into a killer vector drawing app and then expand its range. Having a sound foundation before adding on that extra bedroom, so to speak. 

 

But then my vector drawing needs are modest, lettering comics, creating art for fliers, stickers, posters and such. I'm sure that, in time, AD will excel at a lot more than my meager needs. At that time, it's Affinity's call to port to another OS or not. 

 

We have a newborn baby here and this thread is all about which degrees and colleges he/she will go to. It's too early. Let AD grow up a bit and then see where it (Affinity/Serif) wants to go.


Mac OS X Catinlina, 2014 iMac, 3.5 Ghz Intel Core i7, Huion Kamvas Pro 22 Graphic Tablet, 16GB RAM, MacOS10.12 || Magic keyboard w/numeric keypad, wireless trackpad, Kengsington Edge Trackball || Flux Capacitor in a secure location

---

I encourage kids to go ahead and play on my lawn. I mean, how else can I make sure the death-traps work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also judge on Adobe quite differently – they managed to run the Creative Suite for about

a decade and without any doubt could have continued.

 

There is actually a lot of doubt. They spent that time writing nearly identical software for both Mac and Windows. Now they are  taking on far more then two platforms and the platforms are very different from each other. Heck even Mac and Windows are not that much alike anymore. On top of that you add web app platforms and touch platforms.

 

It sounds like what you want is to have Adobe do extra work developing on multiple radically different platforms and yet not pay more for it. How is that a viable business strategy for them? Affinity doesn't take on so much so they don't have to pay 11,000 people and inflate their prices. I would like to get ice cream delivered to me in the mail but I realize that is never going to happen and I adjust my expectations around the situation at hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You indeed managed to squeeze the only reasonable interpretation out, but it definitely requires more than just a bit

of reading between the lines. I didn't follow along closely and hence didn't read anyone stating that their new code

is meant to be os-agnostic!

Given that your interpretation was correct one certainly could deal with this topic more elegantly.

At this point a group of windows customers who don't fall in the target group of the PLUS product line gets attracted

to Serif with the announcement of Affinity (often - probably for the first time) and turned off again right away. Having

to wait a bit was quite a differenent story - releasing on one platform first, getting feet wet and at some point making

the product available on additional platforms isn't rare at all.

 

cheers!

Not at all, As a Mac 3D user I am used to having to wait while windows centric versions are released and no option for Mac users so actually I see both sides. Obviously windows users aren't accustomed to this. In all fairness though, the developers do release a Mac build and contrary to popular opinion the Mac market IS big. I tend to disagree about the comment that the lion's share of Graphics Design is done on windows based on my experiences. The thing is IF there is a market, there will be a windows release, or there will be a suitable windows counterpart. believe me it will take care of it's self. Don't take it so hard.


Geradeaus immer Geradeaus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a newborn baby here and this thread is all about which degrees and colleges he/she will go to. It's too early. Let AD grow up a bit and then see where it (Affinity/Serif) wants to go.

 

That's a great point about waiting to see how the product matures before making too many decisions about it. What we seeing right now is that staying single platform has worked for many companies at the moment and we will have to know what future OSes will be like before seeing how viable multiplatform support is in the long term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like what you want is to have Adobe do extra work developing on multiple radically different platforms and yet not pay more for it. How is that a viable business strategy for them? Affinity doesn't take on so much so they don't have to pay 11,000 people and inflate their prices. I would like to get ice cream delivered to me in the mail but I realize that is never going to happen and I adjust my expectations around the situation at hand.

 

Please don't interpret what I say – this has proved not to work.

Your speculations about my motives don't work either, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm mildly surprised that we're still having this conversation.  Feels like the late 90's with the same "marketshare" arguments. 

 

I tend to choose Mac only developers even if their price is higher than average (Omnigroup)  because I do want strong focus on leveraging the unique capabilities 

of my chosen platform.   

 

To me Serifs choice makes sense.   The Mac platform has cried out for a capable vector program since Adobe swallowed up Freehand.   There's much more to delivering 

software than writing code.  For every platform you choose at a minimum you're looking at the time to write the code, time to QA test the code,  expenses in marketing the app 

to different markets and the costs of supporting users.  With Macs you have a fairly insular brand as a developer.  You know your GPU are going to be either AMD or Nvidia based 

product.  There's not a whole lot of hardware surprises or funky configurations.   

 

Will Serif extend the product to Windows?   I'd say it's likely but there's nothing wrong with growing the product and the brand on Macs and when the suite is very stable and mature moving to additional 

platforms or going mobile. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expect mobile to happen long before Windows happens (if Windows happens). If you look at programs like iDraw they managed to achieve making a product on iPad that is almost exactly as powerful as it is on the Mac especially with the upcoming version 2.1 that they announced yesterday. I don't see a really big need for the developers to rush out an iPad version of Affinity as iDraw actually is a pretty good Mac to iPad solution. Now getting a really good replacement for Illustrator / Freehand is something that the Mac desperately needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested in a Windows version of the Affinity products as well. I was a Mac user but for various reasons I've switched over to Windows and would really like to see great design software on the Windows platform. I think with Windows 10's attention to design and detail, Windows will again become a force in the design community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on the same boat as GRScott.

I use a Mac with Windows installed with Parallels. I bought Parallels when still in version 5 and it is a nice alternative when I really must use Windows (I use it mainly to use Visual Studio to compile my Cinema 4D plugins for Windows).

If you want a really versatile and simple to use machine, get a Mac. It is more expensive, yes. But you get two computers in one (I can use Windows at the same time as I use Mac OS X)

Of course you can create a Hacintosh on a PC (I don't advise in doing that, though). But it is harder, more complex and illegal.

 

You just answered this question very easily for those of us who want a Windows version.  The answer is stop bothering with the Mac side, if you only want to work on one version.  Do a Windows version and you can run it on both a PC and Mac.  Job done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows users already have a good alternative to other products. Try PagePlus, DrawPlus and PhotoPlus also from Serif. Check for them and you will find some things in Designer und Photo very similar ;)

http://www.serif.com/#


iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017), i7 4.2, Radeon 580 Pro 8 GB, 40 GB DDR4-RAM, 1 TB Flash, macOS 10.14.6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not the same.  I have DrawPlus, Illustrator, Inkscape, Mischief, Affinity and a few others.  None compare to Affinity...but hey...if they don't want to make money catering to both types of users, it's their business.  It's not really worth me spending any more money on Affinity to upgrade, if I'm stuck on my Mac only.  To get a Mac that's as powerful as the PC I built, I would have to spend at least $3000 - $4000.

 

For Photo Work, I haven't found anything that compares to Photoshop, regrettably.  I have Photomatix, Krita, Paint Shop Pro and quite a few others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.