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Cusp node sprouts twisted handles


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Every so often when using AD 1.7.0.3 I'll be moving a cusp node snapping it to another node and the cusp node will suddenly change into a smooth node sprouting 2 handles and the handles are twisted 180 degrees from where they would normally be.  All without releasing the mouse button. 

If it is showing the twisted handles with the smooth node when the mouse button is released that then is what goes into the drawing, not the cusp node that was originally grabbed.  Lots of times it will not do this, so it may be hard to reproduce on command.  Other times it happens easily.  I have not been able to figure out what was done differently.

I am assuming this is a bug.  Attached is the drawing I was doing when it last occurred.  The Node tool was being used and all layers were selected when this occurred.

Also a couple questions:

In the video it's easy to see that when the node cursor turns white there is a small circle just in front of the cursor.  What is this circle for?  I've never noticed it in earlier versions but it's so small...  Does it mean something?  When dragging some nodes the cursor is white while for other cursors it's black.  What do these colors mean?  I'm not finding this in the help.  When the cursor is black there is no little circle.

I always use separated mode and until 1.7.0.3 the tool hints were not shown below the drawing, it's great that they are now included.:x  But when a node handle is hovered over or grabbed the hints say "⌥ to ignore snapping".  But this is not correct, it doesn't ignore snapping it breaks the constraint between the two handles so one can be moved separately from the other.  Is there a way to "ignore snapping" when moving a node's handles without separating the handles?  Other than turning off all 5 node snap widgets.  I guess it does ignore snapping even though it breaks the bond between the handles, so I guess one could use the opt to position the handle without snapping then release the opt before the mouse button, but if it's close to a snap point it will then snap into position.  So that doesn't work either.

 

812177211_ScreenShot2018-12-05at10_11_01AM.png.6579071ca099009e7cc767cb0b49c73c.png

Temp 4.afdesign

Thanks for all your work Affinity team.

iMac (27-inch, Late 2009) with macOS Sierra

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You know what, Mike? I am inclined to believe this is a new feature. The sprouted handles follow exactly the handles of the node you are dragging the other one onto! :o

(And I assume this new behaviour is indicated by the little circle on top of the Node cursor. You can invoke the behaviour by dragging a node onto another one and waiting for a second or so without releasing the mouse button.)

Screenshots.png.ea617f20d8f200e70890614335e400fb.png

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A little video … doesn’t add much to yours, and unfortunately, QuickTime doesn’t seem to capture the cursor properly. The bottom left node doesn’t seem to work. In this case the handle won’t align.

EDIT Oh wait, the incoming handle of this node has zero length, and by dragging my node onto it, the incoming handle is aligned. So it works correctly.

Edited by A_B_C
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Alex, good catch that the "sprouted" handles are at the same angle as the handles of the other node. interesting thought that this is intended but I hope that's not the case as more often than not just because a node is overlapping another doesn't mean the handle angle needs to be the same.  Plus it's intermittent as heck.  I notice your cursor is not turning white.  "Curiouser and curiouser!" Cried Alice...

iMac (27-inch, Late 2009) with macOS Sierra

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Well, my cursor is actually turning white and the little circle or ring shows up, but QuickTime doesn’t capture this, Mike. Oh wait, I just noticed that this is the case because I decided to tick “Show Mouse Clicks” in QuickTime Player. So when I untick this, you can see what I see.

And it seems clear to me that you have to rest the dragged node at least for a second upon the one beneath, before the handles are sprouting. If you are fast enough with releasing the mouse button, you will not get this new behaviour. So maybe they they should extend the required period of time a little bit. :)

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Actually, I can imagine use cases for this new behaviour. Together with Shift key constraining it will allow us to create very smooth tangent-like ways of meeting between one and another curve. Don’t know how you would call that in English … I do not even know how that this way of connecting or aligning curves called in German … :)

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4 hours ago, A_B_C said:

So maybe they they should extend the required period of time a little bit.

This one sounds like a great excuse for an addition to preferences ("Minimum delay time before sprouting handles while hovering over node"??).

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Your right about that pause.  It's a short pause, 1/2 second maybe.  As long as I only drag it far enough for snap to work nothing happens, if I drag it to the center of the node it pops.  Going to have to play with this to see if I find an actual use. 

It works with all type of nodes, cusp, smooth, smart.  We can even do it back on another node in the same path. But then it's usually 180 degrees off.  It's function relates to the direction the line was drawn.  If the one line is drawn from the opposite direction the node will always be 180 degrees out of phase.

Your right it does make a tangent. 

It can also be used to copy the handle positions of another node by dropping it on that node, with the pause, then grabbing it again and moving back where it's wanted.  When multiple nodes are selected only the one being drug actually snaps.

iMac (27-inch, Late 2009) with macOS Sierra

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It's a bug..... no, wait, it's a new feature.

So, initially I had it on long hover, but MattP thought it was more responsive on regular hover.

 

So - it's a "node copy" feature.  When the cursor changes to the little circle, you are over another node. Hover, and it will copy the properties of the other node - handles, node type, and corner type and size. It will allow you to replicate sections of curves using a drag-hover pattern.  Currently, this is also the only method we have right now of copying bits of another curve.

 

I see in all the examples, you all have snapping on.  What you are often seeing is the snapping pulling the node position before you are over the target node with the cursor. Turn off snapping, and you will see the difference.

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Now, you might argue that the direction of the node handles should be more intelligent.  You want the moon on a stick! ;)

The direction, as has been spotted, is based on the leading node of each curve (denoted by the red end node).  This feature will get a bit more work.  Might look at how we can best fit the node directions.  Just been thinking it also needs a quick way to copy a run of nodes in one go.

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That would be the way, yes.  It's obvious, just needs writing.

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4 hours ago, Ben said:

You want the moon on a stick! ;)

But of course! 

Thanks Ben.  Yes it looks like it works better without the snapping on.  It's 50-50 whether the hover is to short or not.  If you want the copy function then not but it does act sometimes when I guess I'm just being too slow.:/  I can learn to work quicker.  Usually I realize it before releasing the button so it's easy to recover.  I think it will be very handy in the right circumstance.  Now I've got to remember it's there.  An hour ago I used the manual method to copy a few nodes, didn't even think of this.  DUH!

We'll just be using the reverse path widget more now.  I don't see a problem with that.

Is that the reason for the small circle on the tip of the node cursor?

What is the difference between a white and black node cursor?

Thanks again.  Mike

 

iMac (27-inch, Late 2009) with macOS Sierra

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Ben, I'm not sure if this is the same function or not.  In the attached file if I try to move either end node so that it overlaps the other.  No matter how quickly I try I can not get 1.7.0.3 to not change the handle angles.  I want to keep the curve as is.  How can I do this?  test 2.afdesign 

I see, the problem isn't the handles per se it's that when the nodes overlap they are automatically being joined.  And in the process the one handle is lost.  In this case I don't mind the auto join but I would like the curve to stay the same.

Also sometime in the last few days the tool modifier hints at the bottom of the Separated Mode window have disappeared.  This was a great improvement to the past, how can I get them back?

iMac (27-inch, Late 2009) with macOS Sierra

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Alex, I can't believe that I didn't realize that in past versions there was an automatic closure in the Node tool.  I guess usually the points belong to different paths when doing this.  But I can't believe this is the first time...  Thanks for straightening me out.  As they say the best thing about getting old is that there are so many new things discovered, as you don't remember that you've seen it before.:|

I still don't think the one handle should be lost.  I guess what I'll have to do is place the nodes close to each other then press close and not worry about the extra node.

iMac (27-inch, Late 2009) with macOS Sierra

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Yes, I would also think it should work exactly as in Fontlab, for instance. I believe the conceptual problem behind the Affinity approach is that the last node of an open path has a virtual outgoing handle that becomes effective not only when continuing a path, but also when merging nodes in the process of closing a path. While the first one makes sense, the second one seems problematic.

Have a look at my video taken from Fontlab. First I continue a path, and the virtual handle (bottom left) becomes effective (which happens to be the incoming node of the path’s starting point in this instance, but nonetheless). Then I merge two nodes by closing a path, and this virtual handle is neglected. This is how it should be, I would guess. :)

 

 

 

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I'll look into this soon....

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A new improved node copy function.

 

Now you have to long hover, but it will copy a run of nodes based on the selection and the target.  It will also find the direction of the copy based on the closest match of the nodes being cloned.

 

SerifLabs team - Affinity Developer
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I thought so. ;)

SerifLabs team - Affinity Developer
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  • iMac 27" Retina 5K (Late 2015), 4.0GHz i7, AMD Radeon R9 M395
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