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DutchForce

Still no Sigma X3F-Raw support

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As I am already waiting for more than one year I was hoping that with this release I would be able to open my older X3F-Files (made with an Sigma SD15). But .....still not good looking, just compare it yourself:

 

Comparison_Affinity_PhotPro.png

 

So why do you state in the list of supported cameras that you can work with alle Sigma models?

 

Kind regards

 

Anthony

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Hi Anthony,

Could you please upload a few samples to this private Dropbox link?

Windows uses the LibRaw library so we are at the mercy of LibRaw providing updates that we would pull into Affinity.

There are some settings you can try adjusting in the Develop Assistant so it might be worth having a look at those if you haven't already done so. These include Lens corrections, Noise Correction and Tone curve. 

812031268_DevelopAssistant.jpg.de50228d970ff88fdabe8e9de0c3cbbe.jpg

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Hi Chris,

I did try to change some of the settings in the develop assistant as you mentioned. It makes no difference. I just put some X3F example files in the dropbox so you can convince yourself. Should you need a copy of the original Sigma Photo Pro to compare the RAW results  than just use this link: Sigma Photo Pro 6.6.1

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Hey DutchForce,

The raw files you attached look as though each app is offering a slightly different preview. I've opened them in Affinity Photo, Photoshop, Sigma and Dropbox Preview.

I've had a look in the Sigma Photo Pro app and it looks like there's some default adjustment settings that are possibly being applied to your raw files as you open them. If I set the default to X3F I get similar results in all the above mentioned apps. However if I set it to Auto the image is brighter and warmer. Can you confirm what default settings you're using in the Sigma app? I'd be very interested to see if yours is on the default X3F setting and you're getting wildly different results. 

I'm assuming when we say we support it, it means we can open the raw file into the Develop Persona and make edits. I would imagine that the Sigma app will always be the best tool for opening its own Sigma raw files but we just have to do a good of a job as we can.Affinity.thumb.jpg.42870f5f7cff8fcf0b78db6b84a7ceda.jpg1271695305_Affinitycorrections.thumb.jpg.a58800ffdda6fe621375ae32afd5ceb1.jpgDropBox.thumb.jpg.c12c1bcb5ee4c77e2b1e65f7aa64a93a.jpgPhotoshop.thumb.jpg.928c031c7e90da6479e0e5bc3c51a383.jpg1920243132_Sigmaapp.thumb.jpg.ad560b935e543f027e2efdac3d95507c.jpg1712672724_SigmaAutosetting.thumb.jpg.718367ac3afe5c94b3ae3499232f38cf.jpg

DropBox.jpg

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Hi Chris!

first of al - kudus to you for your support and the support at Affinty. It is a very pleasant experience that someone takes care and answers within a really  short time!!

 

I took the same picture you used and opened it Sigma Photo Pro 6.6.1 

You are right when you say i automode it looks warmer:

X3F_SPP661_auto.thumb.PNG.cdcc5d12d1e45b5c188dfa070e0f8cc8.PNGbut when I open it and switch to X3F-mode (on top on the right side) the differnce isn´t that big as when I open it in AP:

X3F_SPP661_x3f.thumb.PNG.a73d3d6e8ca65ebc3a7b5d076587da2b.PNG

I cann´t compare it anymore to PS. After I switched to AP, I deinstalled PS4

So I think it is the best way to open these pictures in Sigma Photo Pro, export them as a 16bit-tif-file and than work on it in AP. I see no other way to work on these old files.

Thanks for your answer anyway

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For the SD15 support, the Libraw website states "raw decode only" - indicating that no color corrections etc. are done by Libraw. So if Affinity Photo relies on Libraw to do the complete job, it cannot work.

Unfortunately, AP (or Libraw) also does not do a good job in color rendition for other Sigma cameras - it seems that camera profiles are either not correct or missing, see attached screenshots from Colorchecker shots from a DP3 Merrill.  AP is severely off in the yellow / red / orange hues, and the shadows have a distinct green cast (the two gray squares expected on the bottom right).  Sigma Photo Pro is nearly correct (as should be expected), but also the open source Kalpanika X3F-to-DNG converter is very close.
All samples have been white-balanced on the bottom 3rd square from the right.

IMHO Affinity should not claim to support X3F raws, when the results are unuseable. Maybe include the Kalpanika code?

Affinity Photo 1.07.106 beta:

DP3M ColorChecker Affinity Photo.jpg

Sigma Photo Pro 6.6.2

DP3M ColorChecker Sigma Photo Pro.jpg

Kalpanika X3F-to-DNG converter (with X3F Wrapper for flat-field correction and Adobe Camera Raw for DNG development):

DP3M ColorChecker Photoshop from Kalpanika.jpg

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Sorry, I just noticed I'm on the Windows forum. Actually I did all trials on Mac, but I assume the results apply to Windows too.

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Most of these cameras use a Foveon sensor, which is not a CFA-based arrangement: the sensor reads multiple colors at each "pixel" of the sensor, and a proprietary (and I believe patented) method is used by Sigma to convert these to RGB.

Thus being able to decode the raw data in the files is only one piece of the puzzle when trying to process a Sigma file - I remember seeing somewhere that Adobe had licensed this from Sigma (or perhaps it is Sigma that developed a plugin for Adobe?), but I don't think anyone else has access to it, so chances are slim that you will find anything other than Adobe software or Sigma software that can correctly interpret a Sigma/Foveon raw file without the colors being all messed up.

I have tried several alternative programs that claim to support Sigma raw files and *NONE* of them get it right.

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The Kalpanika software mentioned two messages previous to the post from #fde101 is open source, was reverse engineered, has been available for years, and it does a very nice job. DC Raw does similarly, and is built into Corel Photo, the Gimp, and a few others, but can be a bit harder to tease the colours out, depending on the particular Sigma camera model.

The newest versions of AP do a good job now of bringing in Merrill RAWs without adding noise in the demosaicing process, which is a great step forward. They're currently working on being able to properly open BW Merrill images, which will be another great step. SD14 images can already be opened in the same quality as SigmaPhotoPro, but need more effort to pull the colours out. I can try an SD15 image for you, if you like.

In general, IMHO, I found I needed to accept that because it has such a unique method and hardware, that over the years (autocorrect had insightfully switched years to tears), you need to master not only finding the best white point source in an image, but then develop further expertise managing greens and magentas balance in both mid tone and shadow areas. It will always be necessary for the RAW engine to be good enough to bring in something you can then work with, but it will usually be harder to achieve that Foveon goodness.

.

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