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Eric5

AP beta crash today Win 10 clean boot mode

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After still having crash and black screen issues with both versions of AP (stable plus beta), I decided to start with the clean boot process described here:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/929135/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows

Please note that this crash occurred with all services disabled as I have not yet proceeded to the method described further down on the page titled "How to determine what is causing the problem after you do a clean boot"

Symptoms:  I opened several files and proceeded to do various task in AP beta.  Within an hour, the program suddenly quit with no warning and no messages.  A crash report is attached. 

 

With practically everything disabled, I sincerely hope significant progress can be made to determine why the program keeps crashing and/or  causes black screening, with the latter that I have to reboot my system to get everything back to normal. 

6ac2bcf9-f94e-4789-898f-e0e9b3c5f301.dmp

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Hi @Eric5, thanks for the crash report. I can see that the report was from build 184, and the latest build is 188. Please can you update and try again?

Having said that, I can see the reason for the crash was a failure to allocate ~17MB of memory. This isn't a particularly large amount of memory to allocate, so I'm surprised it's failed. How much memory does your computer have? Are you opening lots of complex documents?

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I think you probably hit this one right on, Mark.  I was trying to get the program to crash so hopefully black screen or exception errors would appear and had quite a few files opened and working on multilayered project.  With that many files opened, I'm not surprised it crashed but it doesn't look like it helped with my black screen/ exception errors I get with far less opened (which, having said that, Affinity stable did crash with an exception error also yesterday and offered to send a crash report via email but I canceled because on that PC I don't have net access... but there was then no crash report in the folder... is there a way to keep the crash report without emailing so I can upload it later?)   

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I thought that too originally, and switched out cards for a completely different one.  Still got black screen over time.  Latest drivers for both.  No other program causes this even if intensive gaming is done. 

Note that the black screens occurred when I was not running a clean boot as I have been doing lately.  So far, no black screens since clean boot but I don't know yet if that truly makes a difference as I haven't had time to run beta enough to find out.  

Both programs keep crashing, however.  Of course, you have the report for beta, but unable to send report for stable because it wanted it emailed.  When I canceled, there was no report still in the folder to send.    

 

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Newest beta downloaded as suggested and still getting black screen (roughly 90 min into use), requiring reboot to get everything back to normal.  No other program does this and I use two different OS (Win and Ubuntu).  Graphics card tested with intensive gaming test program and passes.  Black screens occur on both video cards tried.  Latest drivers, uninstalled and reinstalled.    

No crash report generated in beta folder, but I am attaching a report from Win.  Since beta is not generating a proper report, and if the attached report is not detailed enough, is there something I can install to get the report needed?  

By the way, the black screen occurred with Win 10 in clean boot mode once again. 

 

blackscreen_beta.txt

Edited by Eric5
wrong txt file originally

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Hi @Eric5, does the entire monitor go black? If so that won't be caused by us, it'll be caused by a driver. The reason is, applications are written in user mode and can't cause things like OS crashes, as memory access is virtualised to prevent accidental corruption of core operating system functionality.

Quote

When you start a user-mode application, Windows creates a process for the application. The process provides the application with a private virtual address space and a private handle table. Because an application's virtual address space is private, one application cannot alter data that belongs to another application. Each application runs in isolation, and if an application crashes, the crash is limited to that one application. Other applications and the operating system are not affected by the crash.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/user-mode-and-kernel-mode

 

Taking a look at the crash log, I can see that ApplicationFrameHost.exe was the cause of the crash, which appears to be a wrapper around Windows Store apps. As the beta isn't delivered as part of the Windows Store, I think we can safely say it isn't that. 

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/what-is-application-frame-host-windows

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Mark,

Yes, the entire screen, no cursor, nothing.  The only way to get everything back is to reboot.  If the driver, surely not two different drivers for two different cards tried, with each driver uninstalled and then respective drivers reinstalled depending on which card I used?  By the way, the two separate cards tried are the ATI Radeon HD 3870 and the Ge Force 210.  The latter is a little newer than the 3870 and has had better Win 10 support.  

So, if it truly is the driver for each card tried, are you saying there's no way around this?  I made both cards used the most recent drivers. 

By the way, in the emailed response, you were asking if I was using Win 8.  No (Win 10), but the program I was using to read and report the crash info may have reported it (AppCrashView).  I was trying to get more complete crash info than standard Win provided. 

Honestly, your most recent post doesn't look favorable for me continuing to use Affinity as I had hoped unless a solution is found.  Budget constraints are the primary reason I went with AP over Photoshop and hoped to keep it that way.  

 

Thanks,

Eric

 

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I used to be an IT manager in both military and civilian environments in the days of NT4 and we used to experience 'Blue Screens of death'  which I suppose is the same as you are experiencing with Windows 8.  I found out that one of the causes of this was memory - what was happening is that overtime the computer writes processes to the memory and then when its done with them allows that memory to be used for another application but in the cases that I came across when working for a software development company was that the application was not releasing the memory to be used again so eventually it would run out of memory and give the 'Blue Screen of Death'.  This could be what is happening to you as its taking over an hour to crash and it crashes when looking for a relative small amount of memory.  As you have tried most other things could this be the cause of your problem?

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@Eric5, how much RAM does your system have? When you're working, can you keep Task Manager open, and keep an eye on the system memory usage. Do you experience a black screen when memory is running low? I just googled 'Windows 10 black screen' and there are pages of posts from people experiencing a similar problem to yours, which isn't great...

 

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Mark, the main desktop here, Dell XPS 420, and the main laptop (Dell Inspiron 1545) both have 8 GB RAM. I only get the black screen with the desktop, but both have had frequent exception errors and when a report is generated, I have forwarded it appropriately.

Just for the record, I ran PS for years on both computers. I sometimes loaded up to 1 GB single image files (100 image panorama composite) with up to 7 layers, making a final file at least 5 GB size. Although PS would slow down, it never crashed, even on my slowest laptop which only had 4 GB RAM. I would even get the message at start up on the laptop that the laptop's video card wasn't suitable.

I don't know about black screens because they happen without warning, but when I have had exception errors, memory/ CPU usage have been less than 50% with hard drive less than 5%. I'll try to watch and see with task manager open before the next black screen and report here.

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Ok, ran Affinity again today and, as expected, black screen occurred after about an hour.  This time, I tried watching the task manager and also ran a logging program called GPUZ for my video card.  Unfortunately, no crash reports generated from Affinity, but I did get two "hardware error" crash reports in Win after reboot (they are attached).  Note that Win acted a bit differently upon reboot this time with my screen going black for a couple of seconds twice just a few seconds apart, thus the reports Win generated.  Not sure if related, but attaching.  I am also attaching the logging text file for my video card.  I don't think the card itself has issues from the data I see in the log, which appeared to keep logging right on through the black screening.  Finally, I am attaching the error report generated at moment of black screen from Win reliability. 

Before running Affinity beta today, I ran a video card test using a program called FurMark.  I ran both burn in and extended graphics tests for at least 15 min.  I didn't see anything unusual with the card's performance.  

Today, I decided to see if there was any way to regain something of my screen after it went black.  I first unplugged the monitor cable from the card and then reattached.  This time, my mouse pointer was in the center of the black screen, rapidly flashing.  I could move it somewhat if I moved the mouse, but it always went back center screen with rapid flashing.  I then proceeded to try going into sleep mode, just backing off from manual shut down.  I turned the monitor off and back on.  Surprisingly, I now had a white screen with task manager on the foreground, with what looked like Affinity and the logging program at the bottom of screen.  I tried to maximize either program, but no response.  I then went over to Win menu to try a shut down.  I was able to access the menu and tried to shut down several times, but no response.   I finally shut down manually.  Upon reboot in Win 10, the screen blacked out quickly twice and as described in the first paragraph above.  

I noticed something new with Affinity today too.  About 10 min before the black screen, Affinity became non-responsive.  I could move the mouse pointer and whatever tool I was using at the time's characteristics took the place of the pointer, but despite all efforts the program was frozen.  I kept an eye on the task manager.  Sometimes CPU would go to 90% but back down fairly quickly.  Hard drive hardly varied from 0%.  Only memory seemed to gradually increase and after I could regain task manager visibility, the reading was 75%.  

i don't know what to make of all this.  I've dealt with computers for years, but I'm still not sure what this issue could be.  Only happens with Affinity.  From the report on the video card, I would say that it's not at fault.  I have a suspicion, but I will reserve it until I see the response I get from the crash reports I'm attaching along with the other data.    

 

GPU-Z Sensor Log.txt

momentofblackscreen.txt

WATCHDOG-20181208-1755.dmp

WATCHDOG-20181208-1755 (2).dmp

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Mark, no offense, but from what I am reading, it seems like everyone is taking guesses as to what could be wrong.  All I know is that for weeks, Affinity is the only program where I have this black screen issue.  If it were only exception errors, I could just close and restart the program and, with any luck, autosave will have saved most of my work.  However, with this issue and happening with no warning (other than the most recent behavior of Affinity becoming non-responsive for 15 min before the black screen... and unable to shut down Affinity with task manager), is making me seriously question whether I want to continue trying to use Affinity.  

You mention CPU, but I have used test programs to stress CPU to the max (even with the fans greatly increasing in speed); test programs for both memory and GPU (also both stressed to the max).... none of these stresses have caused any black screens or crashes.  

I have used the desktop in question to compose huge 1 GB panoramas, oftentimes consisting of 100 separate images or more, with Image Composite Editor.  Even Photoshop struggles with such sizes on this computer and I will admit will crash with no black screen, but ICE handles it well, quickly, and no crashes.   So this desktop has handled heavy duty work without fail..   

I'll continue trying to work on this for a while longer, but even my patience has a limit.  Are there any other programs I could try to help diagnose the problem?  Is there any way to conveniently record task manager or other relevant loggers since what I provided didn't seem to help?  Any other suggestions? 

Just looking for answers.  I really don't want to give up on Affinity unless I have no choice.  And budget at the current time just doesn't warrant the cost of a new desktop.    

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@Mark Ingramtoday I decided to start Furmark's "CPU burner" before launching AP beta.  This program runs, or attempts to run, the CPU at near the maximum until I tell it to stop.  Affinity was then launched and I opened a file I've been working on.  I proceeded to perform operations (add layers, refine, adjustment layers, etc) in order to keep CPU at or near 100% over the course of 45 min and no black screening.  Unfortunately, I ran out of time and had to leave, but I don't think the CPU is the issue.  

@PaulAffinity true about ICE.  I have found nothing better for huge panoramas.  Even Photoshop can't compare. 

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