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3 hours ago, thomaso said:

@GrahamMYC, if the printing computer has Adobe Acrobat installed then you simply can export in AFPub as single-page PDF and use Acrobat's ability to print as booklet. ( https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/print-booklets-acrobat-reader.html )

It is the same result as printing as a booklet in AFPub, just one pdf step in between – but less to carry to the printer.

 

I have had a look at the adobe reader version and it looks complicated. I have now got a workable system (I think!) so I may try that another time, but I have not clearly understood how the pages have to be ordered to produce a two sided booklet. However, many thanks for pointing this our

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3 hours ago, Przemysław said:

...(the only more annoying thing is when they make 8mm bleed “just to be on the safe side” when I said it needs to be 2mm). :-)

Doesn't bother me. My imposition software (any I have used) overrides the PDF values. Heck, I could care less if marks are in a PDF for that matter. Those also get dismissed and the impo software uses its own.

The few times I have gotten imposed PDFs (or partially imposed, i.e., some double pages) and don't have time to deal with the client, I split the pages using pdfToolbox.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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On 12/6/2018 at 11:08 PM, GrahamMYC said:

Thankyou. It looks incredibly simple, except I do not have what you call "The PDF pulldown menu" . Where do I get that?

...

This is the option to print to PDF on Windows:

image.png.b5b78923898d746a2c460f43ff5f17d8.png

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55 minutes ago, GrahamMYC said:

I have had a look at the adobe reader version and it looks complicated. (...) I have not clearly understood how the pages have to be ordered to produce a two sided booklet.

Oh, you might have misunderstood: the page order will be done by Acrobat, you simply use a pdf with single pages in unmodified order: page 1, page 2, page 3 ...
As it says in the first paragraph it does the page arrangement for you: "Acrobat or Reader lays out the pages two per sheet. (...)".
Also, you may leaf through the spread preview before you print to check for instance whether the title page really is on the right and the last documents page next to it.

Actually it is the same workflow than in APub.
In both (or any other) applications you have to set up your printer driver software, e.g. for double-sided printing, paper size, page orientation, etc.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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Do note that neither Acrobat nor the other methods afaik account for creep.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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Here is my summary of where this discussion has got to. Here is one workflow....

Create the document (as an A4 facing page spread)

Select the Microsoft “print to pdf” as suggested by fd101

Set page size to A3

Set mode to booklet

When asked, specify file location

This produces a file that will produce double sided printing of an A4 booklet on A3 paper.  

In this case it is not necessary to hit the big print to file button, as suggested by Wosven (because the “print to pdf” printer will do that anyway). This is the method I am now using. However, the printer properties of the generic Microsoft "print to pdf" printer do not have options to manage thw workflow, the pdf printer used by Wosven may be more efficient.

It seems to me that it is against the philosophy of Affinity to adopt an Adobe solution , as suggested by Thomaso, though that route looks feasible.(in my view pdf, although an Adobe creation is now an industry standard)

In short, I think we should see the issue as a 2 stage problem.

Stage 1, producing a file in a format suitable to pass to a Printer (or your own printer). PDF seems a practical option. [ My initial problem was that I did not see how to produce a pdf file when using the booklet output option. Pointing out that there is a pdf printer built into (most?) Windows 10 computers solves that problem. ]

Stage 2 getting compatibility between the output from stage 1 and the printer.  That is, as several people have pointed out, a matter of printer settings. However, the issue can be eased by knowing whether to order the pages for printing the “outer” pages first, then the “inners”; or printing each page 2 sided one at a time. Some printers will do either given the basic output from any of the pdf-to-file-printers mentioned in this discussion. It sometimes needs a little bit of experiment to sort out which sequence works. [I am now content that I understand the issues]

In summary, I would suggest to Affinity that they produce some clear video tutorials on how to carry out this workflow. They should also look at the wording on their print page. “Print to File” on the big button means something different to the little print to file tick box.

I think the time has come to close this discussion. I have learned a lot, and can only thank the contributors

 

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Did you search to do this PDF without APub because it seems we can't export pages in different order?
(I tested to export 4,1,2-3 pages, but the PDF was pages 1,2,3,4 :S)

Using another application or some other drivers to produce a PDF can be a problem if it doesn't manage all the needed setting.
When testing with my current PDF driver (Foxit PDF's one), it was able to manage fonts (include them) and PPI (resolution needed for print, resampling, etc.), but nothing about colors profiles, spot colors, etc.
And the resulting PDF had faded colors, certainly not what I would expect for print. And the file's size is a lot smaller than a PDF for print produce by APub, certainly missing the color profiles and other informations.
(I don't have tool here to check for this, but I'd rather check those PDFs first before sending them for print).

 

Another solution, if you know in which order the pages need to be, is to export a 1st and regular PDF (from 1 to n page) with the print setting from APub.

Second, you create a new document with single pages of A3 format (ordouble size from your original pages).

You put a guid to divide this page in 2 egal parts in the Master pages, to easily place your pages.

And you place the PDF pages on this document as needed depending of the order you want.
You can place the first 2 pages on the first large spread, and duplicate the spread.
Next thing to do: select each frame containing a page and using the dropdown menu to select the PDF's page needed.

 

First document that I export as PDF for print.

2018-12-09_203909.png.b3e14a1aaf65d9fe74a5ffaa095c6706.png

Second document where I place my PDF's pages in the order I need, before exporting for print again.

2018-12-09_204159.thumb.png.aa9434647e011b1b68747e85075485ab.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wosven said:

Did you search to do this PDF without APub because it seems we can't export pages in different order?
(I tested to export 4,1,2-3 pages, but the PDF was pages 1,2,3,4 :S)

Using another application or some other drivers to produce a PDF can be a problem if it doesn't manage all the needed setting.
When testing with my current PDF driver (Foxit PDF's one), it was able to manage fonts (include them) and PPI (resolution needed for print, resampling, etc.), but nothing about colors profiles, spot colors, etc.
And the resulting PDF had faded colors, certainly not what I would expect for print. And the file's size is a lot smaller than a PDF for print produce by APub, certainly missing the color profiles and other informations.
(I don't have tool here to check for this, but I'd rather check those PDFs first before sending them for print).

 

Another solution, if you know in which order the pages need to be, is to export a 1st and regular PDF (from 1 to n page) with the print setting from APub.

Second, you create a new document with single pages of A3 format (ordouble size from your original pages).

You put a guid to divide this page in 2 egal parts in the Master pages, to easily place your pages.

And you place the PDF pages on this document as needed depending of the order you want.
You can place the first 2 pages on the first large spread, and duplicate the spread.
Next thing to do: select each frame containing a page and using the dropdown menu to select the PDF's page needed.

 

First document that I export as PDF for print.

2018-12-09_203909.png.b3e14a1aaf65d9fe74a5ffaa095c6706.png

Second document where I place my PDF's pages in the order I need, before exporting for print again.

2018-12-09_204159.thumb.png.aa9434647e011b1b68747e85075485ab.png

 

 

Yes, ordering the pages is an issue. My printer friend, who is not particularly computer literate, offered me a simple practical solution. He makes up a simple physical booklet of the right size, then numbers the page pairs. It is difficult to explain, so I am planning to make a video of how it is done and post it on the Fans  of Serif Software on Facebook. But I need the finished result to make it believable! My project is a 36 page booklet.

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22 minutes ago, Wosven said:

Nice idea, but don't forget to post it here too, we aren't all on Facebook :)

I am a bit diffident about posting here. You guys are all so competent, it would probably seem trivial.. In the light of your comment I will think about it seriously. Thanks for the encouragement. If you have not picked it up, I am 77, and in envy of all you young guys who seem to take all the technology i your stride!

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17 hours ago, GrahamMYC said:

a simple practical solution. He makes up a simple physical booklet of the right size, then numbers the page pairs.

I still do this on occasion.


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 | Affinity Photo 1.6.7 | Affinity Publisher beta 1.7.0.337 | Affinity Photo beta 1.7.0.128 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.0.12

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44 minutes ago, GrahamMYC said:

I suspect we both still use old money and ft and inches!

If by old money you mean £/s/p then no due to being a Canuck, I did chance across a farthing in change once here in Canada. I do remember Dominion Day and the Red Ensign, I also slip up once in while and refer to Armistice Day.

Feet & Inches sure but Gallons through to Fluid Ounces are tricky living next the US.


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 | Affinity Photo 1.6.7 | Affinity Publisher beta 1.7.0.337 | Affinity Photo beta 1.7.0.128 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.0.12

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10 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

If by old money you mean £/s/p then no due to being a Canuck, I did chance across a farthing in change once here in Canada. I do remember Dominion Day and the Red Ensign, I also slip up once in while and refer to Armistice Day.

Feet & Inches sure but Gallons through to Fluid Ounces are tricky living next the US.

It is nice to relax and have a bit of fun in the midst of all this serious stuff. Thankyou. As an 'oldie'I feel a bit exposed when I raise issues like this. On the other hand I have been a loyal user of Serif software since 2002. I admire what they have attempted, and I consider it a duty to raise issues that I think will help them develop a scintillatingly good product range

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