Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 In the picture belwo you can see 2 times the text-line. Left is the exported output (png), its quite blurry. Right is a screenshot (is a jpg) and its much more clean, almost i see directly on the monitor inside AP. However, creating screenshot is also a type of "rendering", the vector becomes pixel... so why is this so smooth and why is the AP-export so blurry? And yeah i tried all export-modes bicubic, lancocz... its almost the same. FraddyD 1 OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Chris B Posted November 30, 2018 Staff Share Posted November 30, 2018 Hey Polygonius, My export looks nothing like that Can you attach the document and maybe the font if it isn't a default macOS one? If it's a paid font, can you change it to a default and reproduce it? How to format a bug report | Learning Resources | List of V2 FAQs | YouTube Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Thanks Chris. In the zip there is also the free-font Mentone and a description of the issue: Font = Mentone Size 10pt ; Doc = 72 dpi (its for screen only) With cmd+2 i get exactly the WYSISWG view with my RETINA display If i export the text i get a blurry output. If i make a screenshot with cmd+1 view for RETINA Size-equalize i get an image in the correct size. This screenshot image is a much sharper. Not as sharp as true vector but much sharper than the export. ####### BTW: I got a not-save endless issue, after i set the text to center! I had to kill whole AP 103 via cmd+alt+esc.. NO crash report appears, but maybe you can reproduce. Text Mentone not sharp.zip OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Are there other things in the png which are not impacted like that? It looks to me like what I would expect to see if it had been exported at too low of a resolution and then displayed enlarged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 55 minutes ago, fde101 said: It looks to me like what I would expect to see if it had been exported at too low of a resolution and then displayed enlarged. A retina-display doubles the resolution, so the screenshot is twice big as the original. The resolution of the file does not matter. It always twice big as you In this case i exported the left file and made a screenshot for the right file (by half size) so both get the same size in the final. Then i screenshot both again side by side and yes now you a double-size in the screenshot, cause its a retina-screenshot. But you can see, the right one is quite sharp during the exported one is it not. (Both are twice big in original on-the-screen it looks the same compared side by side, but half big). So, it seems the simple osx-screenshot RENDER algorithm produces better results than AP-export. OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Retina display is not relevant to my question. A png file is a bitmap (raster) image, not vector, so it has a fixed resolution within the file. If the resolution of the file is 100 x 100 pixels and you scale it to occupy an area that is 800 x 800 pixels on the screen then you only have 1/8th of the data necessary to display it smoothly and the display of the file would tend to look like what you showed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 A SCREENSCHOT is also a raster image. If i "reduce" the visibility from 100p to 50p and make a screenshot i get 100p with retina. If i export 100p i get 100p. Booth should look the same. But the screenshot looks quite better! OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Retina is irrelevant here. Regardless of the coordinate system being applied, you are dealing with your raster exported image. A retina display might show 100 pixels in the space that an otherwise-equivalent non-retina screen would show 50, but if there were only 10 pixels available in the source image to spread out over that it is going to start looking like that in both cases. The retina screen might actually make it look worse because you have a larger number of pixels to spread that limited data over. What I am after is what the resolution of the exported PNG file is compared to the resolution of the display. If your display shows 100 actual pixels per inch and you have a 100 pixel wide image that you are displaying at 8 inches wide then you are displaying 100 / 8 = 12.5 pixels of data within a 100 pixel image which means that some form of scaling of the data needs to take place. This will result in the type of appearance that you are showing above. You did indicate that the document was exported at 72 dpi; if this is dots per inch of the page, and you had originally been looking at the document zoomed at a level that showed one inch of document in two inches of screen, for example, then scaled up the image you exported to view it at the same size you exported at, then you are actually looking at 36 dpi... This might not be the issue, not saying it is, just pointing out the possibility that without knowing how the image is actually being displayed compared to the exported pixel size we can't determine if this might in fact be an expected behavior. EDIT: I just looked it up, and all of Apple's retina displays are over 200 dpi, some are over 400 dpi. Even if you are displaying a 72 dpi image at 1 inch per inch, you are not matching the resolution of the display and that blocky appearance should be expected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Well, its true. I re-imported both, the export-one and the half-size screenschot into AP (not placed wich will mostly re-size) so i get both in the same size (without rescaling, the naked files) side by side. Both looks quite similar "bad". Maybe 10p fonts at 72 dpi is too small for better results, however in preview-app the SAME screenshot looks better than the real export in quite the same scale (view) - I do not know??? OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, Polygonius said: 10p fonts at 72 dpi is too small for better results probably 32 minutes ago, Polygonius said: I do not know??? try exporting at 300 dpi and compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, fde101 said: try exporting at 300 dpi and compare 300 dpi is roundabout 4-time size big (on screen), so not usable in the end-app (72dpi) for what i´m doing this. If the app would use vector/svg... all would be fine... but it is looking for pixel:-( .... Working for screen is much different than for print... OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Polygonius said: 300 dpi is roundabout 4-time size big (on screen), so not usable in the end-app (72dpi) for what i´m doing this. If the app would use vector/svg... all would be fine... but it is looking for pixel:-( .... Working for screen is much different than for print... I'm not saying to make that a long-term solution for what you are trying to do. I'm suggesting doing the comparison once to help identify how that impacts what you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Also, depending on your end application, you might consider converting the text to curves and exporting to SVG instead of PNG to keep it as vector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, fde101 said: Also, depending on your end application, you might consider converting the text to curves and exporting to SVG instead of PNG to keep it as vector? Did you hear me? The APP accepts only PNG (with alpha), nothing else! Its NI Reaktor or Kontakt! Yup, its like 1978 - no develope in this case so far .-( OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, Polygonius said: The APP accepts only PNG (with alpha), nothing else! I don't see that comment but I do see your comment now that referenced inability to use SVG - sorry, I did miss that earlier while reading your responses. 58 minutes ago, Polygonius said: its like 1978 the initial version of PNG was not released until 1996... but I hear you... FraddyD and Polygonius 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polygonius Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 OSX 12.5 / iMac Retina 27" / Radeon Pro 580X / Metall: on! --- WWG1WGA WW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts