Thoughts on default options on create document

[StevieB]

Here are a few of my thoughts on Affinity Publisher, which is definitely going in the right direction for a first release. Better than InDesign at the start. 

When you create a print document it should default to cmyk.

At the moment the default option to create a Print document, the first option in the new document set up, the colour is set to RGB, which shouldn't be the default for a professional publishing program. It should be cmyk. The second option "Print (Press Ready)" is correct.

It's just a bit confusing to have two Print options in the set up.

If you want to create a screen document then you should use the photo, web or devices default.

But I think both the Print options should default to cmyk.

The other problem is that if you inadvertently create your document with the first option and then you change the colour in the document set up to from RGB to CMYK, the colours don't always convert correctly to cmyk. For instance, the default CMYK fill is 10% Black, the default fill in RGB is R=235 G=235 B=235, change the document to cmyk and then look at that colour in cmyk and it changes to 5% cyan 5% magenta 5% yellow 0% black, not printer friendly!

I think I've mentioned this before, but the default colours in the swatches panel are set up as HSL, why aren't they CMYK when you choose the print options and RGB in the other options. I know this is how Designer and Photo have them, but Publisher is for a different market.

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say, and correct me if I am wrong.

All want is for Affinity Publisher be the best out there so that I and others can ditch InDesign, I'm already using Photo and Designer, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Publisher to join them soon (.idml import and export is a must!)

 

[walt.farrell]

12 hours ago, StevieB said:

When you create a print document it should default to cmyk.

At the moment the default option to create a Print document, the first option in the new document set up, the colour is set to RGB, which shouldn't be the default for a professional publishing program. It should be cmyk. The second option "Print (Press Ready)" is correct.

It's just a bit confusing to have two Print options in the set up.

A lot of us who will use Publisher are not going to be sending our Print documents out to a professional printer We'll be printing them on standard printers at home or where we work, where RGB is the appropriate choice.

I would suggest that users who are planning to send their documents out for professional printing should instead choose the documet type Print (Press Ready), or create their own preset that has the settings they commonly want. Edit: By the way, Publisher will remember the last document type you selected, so once you've selected Print (Press Ready) that will be the default for the next document.

I think it's appropriate that Print default to RGB.

[Sabine 108]

And I would like the color palette, which I created for a certain document, also open by default.

[thomaso]

>> in the new document set up, the colour is set to RGB,

Feel free to save a preset with CMYK - and all new documents will be CMYK.

>> confusing to have two Print options in the set up.

What "set up"? – When I select "File" > "Print..." then I get my usual – system defined – print options window. With about 15 - 20 options: printer, size, range, scale,  ...

 

>> Print options should default to cmyk.

Are you talking about sth related to Affinity Publisher? As far I know there is no color space selection in "Print...". – Would you mind to show a screenshot?

 

On 11/21/2018 at 1:03 PM, StevieB said:

default colours in the swatches panel are set up as HSL, why aren't they CMYK when you choose the print options and RGB in the other options.

Good point. The color palette should know and show colors in document's color space by default.
– What do you mean with "in the other options"?

[thomaso]

On 11/22/2018 at 9:38 AM, Sabine 108 said:

And I would like the color palette, which I created for a certain document, also open by default.

You might want to use an "Application Palette" – once created (=saved) it will be open in any new document.

[Serge R]

Print industry is my 2nd life and converting files by default to CMYK is not a good idea. Maybe it was years ago but not now. There are few reasons behind it:

- file might be printed on CMYKBG press which covers much more RGB than standard CMYK press

- file might be printed on 8 colour printer which covers even more RGB spectrum

- modern print industry uses software and hardware that converts RGB to CMYK better than desktop applications

- there are no CMYK monitors - what you see is not what CMYK press will produce

Printing nowadays went very much digital. There are digital presses that can print orange, green, spot colours, white, clear and more and it all depends on set up. If you send CMYK file you are loosing lots of colours. If you send it in RGB modern print processors in printing companies will convert it to current set up of the press and will give much more colours compared to standard CMYK. Stay with RGB and trust modern technology

[thomaso]

23 hours ago, Serge R said:

Print industry is my 2nd life and converting files by default to CMYK is not a good idea.

(p.s.: the topic was about document preferences, not about converting.)

I agree to your hints concerning nowadays print color spaces.

But I do see one massive reason to respect CMYK: The color Black. – It has several disadvantages if black text is defined as RGB instead 0, 0, 0, 100.
Especially in nowadays automatic printing workflows it can both increase costs and reduce quality, too. So, for now, it could be risky to ignore CMYK.

AF Publisher might enable a kind of document preference option for Black Text. Might possibly a snippet of code be able to recognize "text" and auto-set its colors to 100 K?

[StevieB]

13 hours ago, thomaso said:

AF Publisher might enable a kind of document preference option for Black Text. Might possibly a snippet of code be able to recognize "text" and auto-set its colors to 100 K?

Don't assume that text is always 100%K.

Often it is defined as a tint of black.

In quite a few of the Brand Guidelines for the clients I work for do not define body text as 100% black, but usually a tint of that colour.

I'm coming from a Quark/InDesign background not PagePlus.

Edited December 4, 2018 by StevieB
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[fde101]

A tint of black is still a color and thus can cost more to print depending on the printer.  There is another thread floating around here where this is being discussed.

CMYK has the benefit of being a gamut that more closely matches what is more commonly available across multiple types of printer.  Yes it is more limited than RGB but that is a benefit if you don't know in advance what the printer will be able to handle as it helps to restrict color usage to those which are more likely to be printable.

Granted it is not always best to use that, but sometimes it is.

[thomaso]

In

1 hour ago, StevieB said:

Don't assume that text is always 100%K.

Often it is defined as a tint of black.

In a proper print file the color Black for texts is created in 1 color only, the k of cmyk. So it doesn't matter if the PDF contains rasterized elements of black text (= tints).
 

1 hour ago, fde101 said:

A tint of black is still a color and thus can cost more to print depending on the printer. 

I have no experience with additional costs for less than 100% k.

My above costs thought refers to 'classic' processes such as offset printing or photocopying machines. There I only pay extra costs for c, m, y – over k.
In this way I mean black as just one color, including all tints.

[StevieB]

2 hours ago, fde101 said:

A tint of black is still a color and thus can cost more to print depending on the printer.

A tint of black is still black but with a screen overlaid on it to reduce the strength. An 80% tint of black is not a separate colour in cmyk.

This can be seen with the Brand guidelines and an InDesign print job (see screenshots).

The Brand Guidelines state clearly that all artwork should be set up in CMYK, and with the appropriate colour profile.

This is standard if you are doing work for big companies.

Publisher is being promoted as being a Professional Design/Layout App and as such should be able to deal with professional requirements otherwise it will fall short of peoples expectations.

[fde101]

ok, sorry I misunderstood what was being referenced by a tint here - yes, if it is still c=m=y=0 then that is still black at reduced strength.

I was thinking of black with bits of the color inks added in to correct for hue or to make a richer "cool" or "warm" type of black (not all blacks are created equal...  https://mayvendev.com/blog/50-shades-of-black-effective-use-of-no-color)