setting bleed

[Chris26]

I have A4 paper.  To set bleed I need a document size smaller than the actual paper size.  But when I set doc size in the New Doc Setup dialogue to 180mm width in order to have a 3mm bleed and 4.6mm margin, I get a visually empty page in publisher no margins or anything.  What do I need to do please?. 

[MEB]

Hi Chris26,
The bleed dimensions are added to the document size. So if you want a 3mm bleed (all sides) for an A4 page you need to set the document dimensions to 204 mm x 291 mm (A4 dimensions minus 6 mm for each dimension for the bleed). Then set all margins to 4.6 mm and bleed to 3mm (al sides as well).

[Chris26]

Sorry this is confusing.  I just did this and I still do not see any bleed lines nor margin lines.  Also 210 x 297 minus the 3mm bleed and 4.6mm margin comes to 202.4 and 289.4 respectively.  Look, I must be missing something obvious, but a simple setup has me lost here.

[MEB]

Hi Chris, I corrected the values a couple minutes ago on my previous reply. You only have to subtract the bleed from the A4 page dimensions to get the correct document size (so you have 3mm of bleed area on all sides when printed to an A4 page) not the margins - the margins are empty space inside the document/canvas while the bleed is added to the document dimensions. Make sure View ▸ Show Bleed and View ▸ Show Margins are ticked in the View menu.

Here's a sample document you can inspect: sample_document.afpub

Note: if you need the include printer marks (crop marks etc) you will have to reduce the document size further to be able to accommodate them since they are placed outside the bleed area.

[Chris26]

Big thankyou MEB, Now I get it, and glad you mentioned that show bleed option otherwise I would have complained again about not seeing the lines. And thanks for that sample document.  many appreciations.

[Alfred]

15 minutes ago, MEB said:

You only have to subtract the bleed from the A4 page dimensions not the margins - the margins are empty space inside the document/canvas while the bleed is added to the document dimensions.

 

3 minutes ago, Chris26 said:

Now I get it

I’m afraid I don’t get it! The bleed should only be added to the document dimensions (as mentioned at the end of the sentence I’ve quoted from @MEB‘s post) not subtracted from anywhere. An A4 document is always 210 mm by 297 mm, but on export to PDF the sheet size is bigger so that it can accommodate bleed, crop marks and page marks.

[Chris26]

4 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

I’m afraid I don’t get it! The bleed should only be added to the document dimensions (as mentioned at the end of the sentence I’ve quoted from @MEB‘s post) not subtracted from anywhere. An A4 document is always 210 mm by 297 mm, but on export to PDF the sheet size is bigger so that it can accommodate bleed, crop marks and page marks.

Yes when using the Full A4 size as your print area and sending off to a printer that is printing on slightly larger than A4 paper.. 

[MEB]

If you need the crop marks (or other printer marks) visible on the A4 page yes, you have to reduce the document size a little more otherwise they will not be visible since we place them outside the bleed area. Added a note on my reply above to address this. Forgot about them, sorry.

[StevieB]

Here is an AfPub document with a page size of 180mm x 270mm. This will print on a A4 sheet with crop marks.

There are 3 rectangles:

Bleed 3mm: Outermost with red border

Page size 180mm x 270mm: Middle with green border

Margin 4.6mm all round: centre one with cyan border

Just as an example of how it looks and how to set it up.

Also enclosed is a pdf of the output.

Hope this helps to clear things up.

 

 

Page to print on A4.afpub

Page to print on A4.pdf

[Chris26]

Hallo Steve, Appreciate this and thankyou yes it's a great help.  As a side question, when I printed my own document and set the affinity dialogue to print bleed, nothing showed on the print-out despite my bleed being well within the A4 page at 190mm width (30 mm from the edge).

[StevieB]

Hi Chris26,

Here is an AfPub document set to 190mm x 277mm plus bleed, 10mm gap all the way round.

If you print that out you might find that the printer margins are such that it won't print right to the edge.

Have a try...

Page 190mm x 277mm to print on A4.pdf

Page 190mm x 277mm to print on A4.afpub

[fde101]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:20 AM, MEB said:

place them outside the bleed area

Why would crop marks go outside the bleed area - doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

[Patrick Connor]

11 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Why would crop marks go outside the bleed area - doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

That is a bit pedantic, the crop marks are outside visually even if they point within the bleed area

[Alfred]

14 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

That is a bit pedantic, the crop marks are outside visually even if they point within the bleed area

The crop marks are just outside the page area visually, but they are inside (i.e. on the inside edge of) the bleed area.

[Patrick Connor]

codswallop

 

[Alfred]

11 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

codswallop

Oh, OK, it’s a fair cop! I see what you mean now about how the crop marks ‘point’ within the bleed area. Where they point is the inside edge of the bleed area, but the crop marks themselves are placed outside of that area. (You wrong-footed me by stating that @fde101‘s post was “a bit pedantic”.)

[fde101]

ah, got it... I was thinking of where the point, not where the marks themselves are

[Alfred]

1 minute ago, fde101 said:

I was thinking of where they point, not where the marks themselves are

Me too! 

[MikeW]

Well, if people really want to get pedantic, what Affinity applications call crop marks...aren't. They are trim marks.

Deleted stupid stuff I wouldn't have written if I hadn't had way too much to drink beginning at noon...

[fde101]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

crop marks...aren't. They are trim marks.

I believe these are the same thing, for anyone who is not Adobe:

https://www.boxcarpress.com/blog/crop-marks-and-registration-marks-a-printers-tool/

https://www.formaxprinting.com/blog/2011/11/printing-lingo-what-are-crop-marks/

[MikeW]

Yeah. It's a later confounding of term. When I worked for various print establishments I was never stationed at a shear and told to crop the sheets.

[Chris26]

15 hours ago, StevieB said:

Here is an AfPub document set to 190mm x 277mm plus bleed, 10mm gap all the way round.

If you print that out you might find that the printer margins are such that it won't print right to the edge.

I just make a black line that will print as a substitute for the bleed area and just cut inside, setting bleed seems a waste of time for a home printer.

And having read the last six posts was enough to put me off desktop printing for lifer  I just decided to add 'crop marks' in affinity Print dialogue (for fun to see what printed) just before printing.  I then measured the physical black lines that appeared on the output print and the crop marks aligned perfectly with where the bleed margin was.  So, inside outside upside down wrong way around (I have no idea what the above was all about)...........they are aligned.  So I can use crop marks for my bleed alignment or simply make a rectangle on the page that will print out red and then cut inside.

[StevieB]

I thing some people are missing the point of the bleed area, namely this is the area that gets trimmed off when the page is guillotined.

It allows for movement of the stack of paper in the guillotine. The bleed area is where items on the page, like a background colour that goes all the way to the edge of the page is allowed to bleed off the page area into the bleed. The crop/trim marks are placed at the edge of the page and the bleed is the part that extends past the crop marks and gets trimmed off. This prevents any white space appearing if the trimming of the paper is slightly off.

Simple really!

Edited November 17, 2018 by StevieB
spelling!

[Chris26]

Yes, I never had to deal with bleed I was always given a template and sent to printers.  My misunderstanding was that I thought setting the bleed option in affinity publisher would print out a physiacal black line where the bleed begins or something, now I realise that that is the purpose of the crop mark.