Working with no embedded profiles

[DanielErdelyi]

In Photoshop, if I turn on 'Proof Colors', and in the 'Proof Setup' I choose my own monitor's profile (PS calls it 'Monitor RGB') I get to see the same colors during editing (in PS), exporting (save for web) and in Finder (in Quick Look, or in Preview), and even in all the browsers (Safari Chrome). As not all software can use ICC profile, I find this the best way, to ensure, that the image will look exactly the same everywhere.

I'd like to do the same in Affinity Designer: I'd like to export an image with no embeddded color profile, but after export, the colors are slightly different. What I'm looking for, is a solution for seeing the end result before exporting. So basicly I'd l'd like to proof for 'no profile', or for the monitor I'm using. I'm familiar with the soft proofing method in AD (with a Soft Proofing adjustment layer) but I dont find 'no profile' option in the 'soft-proof' dialog. I found a profile named 'Display', and I thought this is how AD refers to the monitor's own profile, but It looks like this is not what I was looking for, as it doesn't change the colors at all.

Is there a way to proof for no profile? Or a way to install a custom profile (my monitor's)
Please advise! Thanks in advance.

[MEB]

Hi DanielErdelyi,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
To export files without profile, click the More button on the Export dialog and untick Embed ICC profile.

[DanielErdelyi]

Thanks for the quick reply! I've found that option, and I know the way to export an image without ICC embedded. My problem is that the exported image differs in color, and I would like see the end result (color-vise) during editing. As I wrote I'd like to proof colors, so I can see what the end result will look like.

I've uploaded a screenshot. From left to right: Affinity Designer, Preview, Safari. Notice the difference in the skin color. I'd like to find a way to see the same colors that will appear on the exported jpg (with no embedded color profile) _during editng_ the file in Affinity Designer. In PS the way to achieve this, is to proof for your own screen. Is there any way to achieve this in AD? To have color consistency during the worklow, if I know, that the output will not have an embedded ICC?
 

[v_kyr]

Well let's answer this one with some theme related Adobe Q/A:

Q:

Quote

Im working on an illustrator CC file and i have to save it as an .EPS with NO color profile. so I do my work and the I do "dont color manage this document" and then save is as an EPS HOWEVER, when i go to re- open this file in illustrator cc again, i can see that the same file i just saved opens again with a profile. So now I dont know if the original file i save actually saved with NO profile assigned or maybe it just didn't work? ...

A:

Quote

One thing you are possibly doing wrong is to (perhaps) assume that “do not color manage this document” doesn’t use any profile for the document. It's not really a valid way to work I'm afraid because things happen in the background you may not be aware of.

For Photoshop / illustrator or any colourmanagement compatible Adobe app to display a file on-screen there has to be a conversion to the display colourspace (the display profile is used for this), But where does the colour come FROM, what is used as the source in this conversion - there HAS to be a document profile as source here.

So when “do not color manage this document” is selected, the application presumes a default working colour space [see color settings], either RGB or CMYK, for the document. That means when viewing on-screen (e.g. with US default settings) you are likely viewing your data as if it was either SWOP coated or sRGB.

Since those colourspaces may not suit your final print destination, thats not good practice. It';s better to take control.

It's fine (but not recommended) to not tag (save without an profile embedded) to send files out but its good to control the provenance of those  files  rather than let Adobe make presumptions.

I hope that doesn’t cause any error in your workflow, but it is worth understanding.
...
...

neil barstow, colourmanagement

 

[DanielErdelyi]

Thanks for your reply Neil! I know the benefit of color profiles, and I use them when I work for print. I use them in my RGB source files as well, but when the output will be used online, In my experience, it's still better to use output-images without embedded color profiles, as still not all browsers supports them. In websites there are other elements with colors (html, css), not just images, and  if you pair them with images with embedded ICC profiles (even if you use sRGB) they often mismatch.

That being said, I'm still looking for a solution for proofing my source files, to match the output files without icc profiles.
Is there a way to proof colors in Infinity Designer for 'no embedded profile'?

[v_kyr]

As to Web browsers and color management see:

• What color management on the Internet?

• Web browser color management test

• Device-dependent color

• ... and so on ...

The lowest common denominator should usually be a plain sRGB profile here, since that's also the default on the different operating systems and most monitor devices. - However AFAIK the Affinity products will always associate and use a default color profile to display documents or use the one you explicitly choose. I haven't seen any option for 'no embedded profile' other than on export. Also since colors have to be shown up in some reproducable way on display devices these will fall back to the device profile, which for monitors is a display profile with at least sRGB color gamut capabilities.

[MEB]

Hi DanielErdelyi,
Most browsers assume sRGB when there's no profile present. There's no way to work with un-profiled documents in Affinity apps.

[DanielErdelyi]

All right, thank you all for your time/answers! The conclusion is to use sRGB (as an embedded profile in the source file, or proof to it) and dont save it to the output file. Software (browsers as well) that supports color profiles will assume that images without an embedded profile are in the sRGB profile. Software that doesn't support color profiles will use monitor's profile, which is most likely to be sRGB as well, and stripping color metadata from PNG and JPEG files makes their colors consistent with GIF as well as with colors in CSS/HTML.