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Text frame links and text size


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4 hours ago, fde101 said:

Particularly for new users it seems to be more confusing than helpful.

Are you asking for an 'APub Essential' version?  😉

It is very hard to create an interface that serves new users and familiar with the software users (I'm not using the word 'professional') the same way. Hiding this handle seems to me less optimal. I agree, some indication of its function would be of help. And a read out of the scaling, too.

d.

Affinity Designer 1 & 2   |   Affinity Photo 1 & 2   |   Affinity Publisher 1 & 2
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4 minutes ago, dominik said:

some indication of its function would be of help

Yeah, that would be another option compared to hiding the handle by default.  Making that handle look different, giving it a distinctive shape, might help to reduce the confusion somewhat.

Regardless the scaling amount should be displayed somewhere in the interface.

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5 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Making that handle look different

Actually it is different by its outset. But this has proven to be not different enough 😉

After seeing the latest introduction of the new 'New File' dialogue (on Windows) I am confident they can come up with something better.

d.

Affinity Designer 1 & 2   |   Affinity Photo 1 & 2   |   Affinity Publisher 1 & 2
Affinity Designer 2 for iPad   |   Affinity Photo 2 for iPad   |   Affinity Publisher 2 for iPad

Windows 11 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M
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10 minutes ago, dominik said:

Are you asking for an 'APub Essential' version?  😉

It is very hard to create an interface that serves new users and familiar with the software users (I'm not using the word 'professional') the same way. Hiding this handle seems to me less optimal. I agree, some indication of its function would be of help. And a read out of the scaling, too.

d.

Other layout applications handle (no pun intended) the sizing/scaling of text with a frame differently--no special handle required. QXP & ID do it by holding ctrl/cmd + shift.

If it were my decision to make, that is how APub would handle the scaling of text within a frame. It's a purposeful, mindful, choice.

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Making clear the function of the handle will only reduce the UX problem, but not solve it. Even if a user intentionally uses that handle for its intended purpose, when he comes back at a later time to the same frame, he has no way to know how much or even if the frame has been scaled. And he can't put it back to 100% without dragging it approximately by eye, but that means that the text in that frame would be slightly different size than text in other non-scaled frames, because it would exceedingly difficult to drag it back to exactly the right size.

It seems Publisher is keeping track of the scale factor of text frames, so would not the simple solution be to just expose that factor as a percentage in the UI? As suggested before, the transform panel seems a likely candidate, but if not there for layout reasons (because other objects do not have the same attribute), maybe it could go in the text frame dialog.

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I think the usage of such a feature needs to be considered--the why of it.

For myself when using a layout application, the only reason I use such a feature is when say making an ad and desire to "wing it" as regards text sizing--to fill a given space with either a headline of text boxes so they fill a given space without figuring out a text size via other methods.

However, no no other circumstances do I desire for the text size to increase without key stroke intervention. The typical use for resizing a text frame is to increase the space available for text.

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1 hour ago, MikeW said:

QXP & ID do it by holding ctrl/cmd + shift.

My thinking is to give the user a visual clue that there is something to be changed by moving the item on screen.

Holding down some modifier keys without any hint what they might achive seems to me kryptic.

In this regard Affinity's help hints at the bottom is a good idea.

d.

Affinity Designer 1 & 2   |   Affinity Photo 1 & 2   |   Affinity Publisher 1 & 2
Affinity Designer 2 for iPad   |   Affinity Photo 2 for iPad   |   Affinity Publisher 2 for iPad

Windows 11 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M
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4 minutes ago, dominik said:

1) My thinking is to give the user a visual clue that there is something to be changed by moving the item on screen. ... In this regard Affinity's help hints at the bottom is a good idea.

2) Holding down some modifier keys without any hint what they might achive seems to me kryptic.

1) Yes, I know. But as evidenced by the number of people who use the scaling handle accidentally, when the help hint in the hintline are clearly saying that text will be resized, yet this still happens.

I don't think having a different shape and/or color of the text resize handle is sufficient. In fact, I liken it to the old saying of putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact it is still a pig. At best it is an attempt for a poor UI choice in the first place.

2) There are literally dozens of modifier keys to learn when using any software. That includes Affinity software. People who are using ID or QXP who are new to the software learn these things by themselves or simply ask via one of the support channels and are then informed about the modifier keys...and then they have learned and don't need to ask again.

For people coming from these other applications expect it to work as per the application they are switching from.

The "best" idea is making it configurable in preferences AND when turned off that the modifier keys accomplish the action.

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10 hours ago, MikeW said:

1) Yes, I know. But as evidenced by the number of people who use the scaling handle accidentally, when the help hint in the hintline are clearly saying that text will be resized, yet this still happens.

I don't think having a different shape and/or color of the text resize handle is sufficient. In fact, I liken it to the old saying of putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact it is still a pig. At best it is an attempt for a poor UI choice in the first place.

2) There are literally dozens of modifier keys to learn when using any software. That includes Affinity software. People who are using ID or QXP who are new to the software learn these things by themselves or simply ask via one of the support channels and are then informed about the modifier keys...and then they have learned and don't need to ask again.

For people coming from these other applications expect it to work as per the application they are switching from.

The "best" idea is making it configurable in preferences AND when turned off that the modifier keys accomplish the action.

You make some good points ... especially the one with the pig 😉

Of course modiefier keys are very practical and effecient ... for those who know them. And any person doing serious work should learn them sooner or later.

But OTOH I believe a user interface should help the less experienced or new users to see that are more ore different options available. One nice solution that comes to mind is the help overlay in the iPad versions of Affinity if one presses the '?'. The '?' is perhaps a universal symbol/sign that there is some help available and thus indicates to go there if there is a question. The effect is stunning because it reveals help all over the place.

Something like this could be introduced in the desktop apps as well. Press one icon and see help bubbles everywhere. The pro users won't get disturbed at all. The curious beginner will get used to this easily.

Just a thought.

d.

Affinity Designer 1 & 2   |   Affinity Photo 1 & 2   |   Affinity Publisher 1 & 2
Affinity Designer 2 for iPad   |   Affinity Photo 2 for iPad   |   Affinity Publisher 2 for iPad

Windows 11 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M
iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil

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15 hours ago, MikeW said:

I don't think having a different shape and/or color of the text resize handle is sufficient

Having the mouse pointer show some kind of indicator of what will happen while it is pointing at the handle is another way to emphasize the difference.

Maybe show small and large letter As with a double-arrow underneath to demonstrate that the text size will change.

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  • Staff

Hi everyone,
This issue was already logged and now bumped again to bring it up to devs attention. It's mostly caused (i believe) by people erroneously using the detached handle to adjust the text frame dimensions which end up messing the font size of linked text frames even if you correct/set the font size to its original size after pasting (or another size you see to fit) - as mentioned earlier. This easily messes up text formatting on user's documents. It's possible there may be other ways to make this go wrong but i'm sure we will find out after this one gets looked at/fixed. Thank you all for your feedback.

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  • 3 months later...

I disagree. I'm new to Publisher, coming from InDesign. I just did a test in my document, an IDML document saved in .afp format. When I got my text formatted as I wanted and then clicked the text overflow icon, then DREW a new text box on a new page, it came in with totally different styling, smaller text AND smaller column gutter width. I NEVER used the detached handle to ever re-size the text frame. I just started over by copying the text inside my original text frame, created two new pages, then created a new text frame on the first new page. I clicked the overflow text icon, went to the new page, and drew a new text box for the overflow. It worked fine. There must be some carried-over settings on the original text box, possibly from it being copied over from my IDML doc. I suppose in the future I will have to copy only the text within the frame, not the actual frame itself when trying to use text from IDML docs.

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8 minutes ago, LarryStew said:

I disagree. I'm new to Publisher, coming from InDesign. I just did a test in my document, an IDML document saved in .afp format. When I got my text formatted as I wanted and then clicked the text overflow icon, then DREW a new text box on a new page, it came in with totally different styling, smaller text AND smaller column gutter width. ...

It's an issue Serif is working on.

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  • 6 months later...

The text flow frames I imported from an IDML document all have a scale applied to them which is unknown – probably something like 300% or 400%. It must be a glitch with the Affinity Publisher import of the InDesign IDML file.

My solution was to copy the text frame from the last page in the flow, and paste that frame into the page where you want the flow to continue. Delete all content from the newly pasted frame. Now link the two pages using the Text Flow feature. The text that flows into the new frame will be the correct size!
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  • 2 months later...

Just logging that I also experienced this issue, despite never using the outer resizing button (and I watched the tutorials, so knew the difference!) in fact, this issue occurred when creating a totally new text box and linking it to a previously created text box from my master page I applied to a new page.

I also imported some assets from an InDesign file and a PDF, so this may have something to do with idml import. however, I didn't start off on an IDML document--I simply copied and pasted certain items (wish I remembered which ones) from the IDMl, because so much of the formatting translated poorly. (The latter I don't really put on Affinity--imports like this are sort of destined to be a little mucky and require reworking. It was easier than starting over from scratch.)

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  • 1 month later...

I too have experienced this issue. I would recommend making the scaled percentage editable in the text frame panel, making the newly created text frame scaled to the same percentage, or removing the threading option when you scale a frame with the detached handle (essential converting it to art text). It's not a "bug" as we've been told, but it makes no intuitive sense whatsoever. It's easily solved by creating new text boxes, but this seems to be just an oversight on the devs team when considering the usability of this tool combination. Looking forward to a solution.

 

On the plus, I think I'm close to abandoning Adobe entirely. woot woot

Edited by Brock
grammar
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On 2/7/2020 at 12:45 AM, dominik said:

You make some good points ... especially the one with the pig 😉

Of course modiefier keys are very practical and effecient ... for those who know them. And any person doing serious work should learn them sooner or later.

But OTOH I believe a user interface should help the less experienced or new users to see that are more ore different options available. One nice solution that comes to mind is the help overlay in the iPad versions of Affinity if one presses the '?'. The '?' is perhaps a universal symbol/sign that there is some help available and thus indicates to go there if there is a question. The effect is stunning because it reveals help all over the place.

Something like this could be introduced in the desktop apps as well. Press one icon and see help bubbles everywhere. The pro users won't get disturbed at all. The curious beginner will get used to this easily.

Just a thought.

d.

While I understand your point, if Affinity wants to grab as many ID users as they possibly can to increase their market share AND profit, then their most efficient way of doing so would be to make the transition as easy as possible. Adobe did this with ID. They provided configurable preferences to make ID’s interface work like QXP and for the most part it worked very well. I swore I would never switch to ID but Adobe made it too easy not to. IMO, this one change would make switching to APUB a no-brainer. 

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  • 6 months later...

Just stumbled upon this issue, but thankfully I found this thread.

I agree, there needs to be some sort of visible indication that the font size, as defined by my styles, will be overridden within text boxes that have scaling applied. I like the detached handle for quick layout mockups without having to edit every style, but in the end defined styles must have absolute priority IMO.

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  • 1 year later...

Hello! I have also been having problems with this issue. It makes Publisher unpredictable, since I never know what text frame I may have accidentally resized.
When I have a bunch of linked textframes, it is not uncommon that the text varies sligthly in size without me noticing it. 
Or, if I notice it and adjust the text size in the second text frame, and then the text flows back into the modified text frame -- the size will change again!
The only solution I have found is to delete all textframes and start from the beginning. 
Does anyone know if I can reset the size in the textframes? Or at least identify if any textframe in my document affiects the text size? Thanks! 

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