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This feature is essential for me too, I have no idea how to insert vertical text in a simple way,

I am going to buy Affinity Publisher but I discover that the vertical text function is not available,

and I tried this almost two days in Affinity Designer, and it hasn't got this function too.

nearly 50% of printing works are still using the vertical format in both Hong Kong and Taiwan, especially the novel publishing,

I looking forward that developers could add this feature in the future.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/22/2019 at 10:35 AM, tosicity said:

For developers.
Please tell us your opinion on the subject.
If you have a plan, show me the timetable.
If there is no plan at all. Please say that you will not implement Japanese typesetting.

For developers.
This is a very serious flaw.

 

This is the function most needed by Japanese.

We Japanese are waiting for a response.

Please tell us the development schedule.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi Affinity Team,

I was very satisfied with the Affinity Design, until the moment I realized that unfortunately it does not have a tool for writing vertically (Japanese characters).
Do you intend to add this feature? If so, is there a date?

(PS: This forum is about Affinity Publisher, but I'm trying in this forum too... :10_wink:)

Thank you

Best Regards.

 

Edited by tutiApps
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  • 5 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Any update on this? I've switched from Adobe Illustrator to Affinity Design, and super happy with Publisher so far – but the lack of vertical text option is stopping me from making a switch from InDesign.

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  • 3 months later...

I have to state that there are massive differences made to the Japanese version of Adobe InDesign, comparing to the English version of Adobe InDesign.

Developers of Affinity Publisher may think that making a substitutive of English version of Adobe InDesign is enough. However, it will never be functionally enough for Japanese users.

(Seriously: not only Japanese users but all CJK users.)

 

Please, Affinity Publisher devs, read through this book (ISBN-13: 978-0596514471, written by Dr. Ken Lunde) and see how Affinity Publisher can be improved for typesetting Japanese.

Otherwise, people in this industry in Japan will never have a chance to give Affinity Publisher a buck. Period.

(My apologies for my strong tone, but this is how terrible the situation is.)

-------------

英語版の InDesign は日本語版の InDesign と比べて、機能はめっちゃ少ないです。
単なる 英語版 InDesign の真似ものだけじゃ、物足りないです。

小林剣博士の針千本を読みながら、今後の Affinity Designer の新機能開発をよく考えましよう。
でなければ、日本の出版業界に認められる可能性は微塵もありません。

忠告は以上です。

Edited by ShikiSuen
remove profanitive expressions; add Japanese translation.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I feel like I am beating a proverbial dead horse by adding my voice to this thread, but it nonetheless seems worthwhile to add my perspective to the other voices who have chimed in here.

My background is that I have nearly three decades of experience dealing with CJK character sets, CJK encodings, CJK text layout, and CJK font development, with a very strong focus on the Unicode and Japanese aspects of those fields. I worked at Adobe for 28+ years.

I should also state that I bought a license for Affinity Publisher late last year, but I generally do not use it mainly due to the lack of this very fundamental feature. In addition to supporting the appropriate OpenType features, in particular vert (Vertical Alternates), vertical text frames need to be added. There was also mention of supporting ruby, which is also referred to as furigana. While this feature is certainly used in horizontal layout, with the 50% glyphs floating above the characters they annotate, there are special considerations for vertical layout in terms of their placement relative to the characters they annotate.

My daily-use layout app is Adobe InDesign, and have mine set up to expose full Japanese (and CJK) functionality. I am fortunate to have a lifetime Adobe Creative Cloud subscription, but decided to give Affinity Publisher a fair shake, which I did.

While my entire book, CJKV Information Processing Second Edition, would certainly be helpful, Chapter 7, Typography, in particular would be the most helpful for the Affinity Publisher developers. Please find attached the PDF for Chapter 7 for your reading pleasure. While the book was published almost 12 years ago, its content is still completely relevant today.

I suggest considering a Baby Steps™ approach, such as to start by adding support for 1) vertical text frames; 2) the OpenType 'vert' feature; 3) respecting the metrics in the OpenType vmtx (Vertical Metrics Table) table; and 4) the 90-degree clockwise rotation of Western text in vertical text layout. Also, be sure to study UAX #50, Unicode Vertical Text Layout.

Adobe InDesign, with its full Japanese functionality exposed, is the most sophisticated Japanese text layout app on the planet, meaning that it represents an extremely high bar. Still, it is not without its flaws. When I typeset my book over 12 years ago, using Adobe InDesign CS3-J, I faced many issues. While I was able to resolve or work around all of the issues, I felt compelled to write a two-page White Paper that detailed the issues I faced. Interestingly, although it is 12 years later, many of the issues have not yet been resolved. Of course, I am using Adobe InDesign 2020, and will have access to the 2021 version in a little over a month from now.

cjkvip2e-07.pdf

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On 2020/9/4 at PM7点33分, lunde said:

我觉得自己正在通过在此线程中添加自己的声音来击败一头众所周知的死马,但似乎仍然值得将我的观点添加到其他在此响起的声音中。

我的背景是,我在处理CJK字符集,CJK编码,CJK文本布局和CJK字体开发方面拥有近三十年的经验,非常专注于这些领域的Unicode和日语方面。我在Adobe工作了28年以上。

我还应该声明,我去年年底购买了Affinity Publisher的许可证,但主要由于缺少此非常基本的功能,所以我通常不使用它。除了支持适当的OpenType功能(特别是vert垂直替代))之外,还需要添加垂直文本框架。也有人提到支持红宝石,也称为假名假名虽然此功能肯定是在水平布局中使用的,但50%字形浮在它们注释的字符上方,但垂直布局在它们相对于其注释的字符的位置方面有一些特殊考虑。

我的日常布局应用程序是Adobe InDesign,并设置了我的应用程序来显示完整的日语(和CJK)功能。我很幸运能够获得终生的Adobe Creative Cloud订阅,但是我决定给Affinity Publisher一个公平的摇动。

虽然我的整本书《CJKV信息处理第二版》肯定会有所帮助,但是第7章,版式尤其对Affinity Publisher开发人员最有帮助。请阅读随附的第7章PDF,以便阅读。虽然这本书出版了将近12年前,但其内容在今天仍然完全相关。

我建议考虑使用Baby Steps™方法,例如从添加对1)垂直文本框架的支持开始;2)OpenType的“ vert”功能;3)尊重OpenType vmtx  (垂直指标表)表中的指标和4)垂直文本布局中的西方文本顺时针旋转90度。另外,请务必研究UAX#50Unicode垂直文本布局)

Adobe InDesign具有完整的日语功能,是地球上最复杂的日语文本布局应用程序,这意味着它代表了很高的标准。尽管如此,它并非没有缺陷。当我12年前使用Adobe InDesign CS3-J对书进行排版时,我遇到了很多问题。当我能够解决所有问题或解决所有问题时,我感到不得不写两页的白皮书来详细说明我所遇到的问题。有趣的是,尽管已经过去了12年,但许多问题尚未解决。当然,我正在使用Adobe InDesign 2020,并且从现在起一个多月后便可以使用2021版本。

cjkvip2e-07.pdf 749.09 kB·5下载

It’s a pity that your book doesn’t seem to have a Chinese version, we can only see what you want to express through Google Translate

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8 hours ago, liumingming said:

It’s a pity that your book doesn’t seem to have a Chinese version, we can only see what you want to express through Google Translate

Never blame someone who can't speak a written language unlearnt by himself.

By the way, your Google translation doesn't help at all. Here's my manual translation:

Quote

朕总觉得在这个讨论串下讲话有点像是在用开水烫(俗话说)死猪,但朕还是值得跟著大家在这里讲几句。

朕在专门以万国码与日语的方面处理中日韩语言的字集、编码、排版、字型研发等方面拥有几乎三十年的资历,在 Adobe 工作了至少二十八年。

朕还得声明一下:朕去年买了 Affinity Publisher,但这玩意缺了这基础功能(日语纵排)、使得朕基本上不怎么用它。在正确支持 OpenType 字型功能特性(特别是「vert」这个纵排备选字图特性)的基础上,你得引入对纵排文本框的支持。朕还得提醒一下对于读音标注记号的支持(经常用来标注汉字的读音),这在日语当中俗称「振り仮名」。这个特性常用于横排文本、以一半的字图大小在汉字上方标注读音,但在给纵排文本标注读音时、则得考虑其专用的相对摆位。

朕每天使用 Adobe InDesign、且朕用的版本专门配置成得以(在英文介面下)启用全部日语排版功能的组态。朕有幸得以使用 Adobe Creative Cloud 终生订阅,但朕决定也对 Affinity Publisher 平等对待、且朕也这样做了。

朕的《中日韩越资讯处理》(ISBN: 9780596514471)整本书应该都能帮得上忙,其中最能对 Affinity Publisher 的研发人员们帮得上忙的则是第七章「排印」。朕在这一回帖的附件当中随赠了第七章的 PDF、方便你们直接阅读。虽然这本书是十二年前出版的,但其内容放在今天仍旧适用。

饭得一口一口地吃,所以朕建议这样逐步添加新功能:① 纵排文本框、② OpenType 的「vert」字型功能特性、③ 严格遵循 OpenType 字型的「vmtx」表当中的参数、④ 在日语纵排文本当中对西文字图的顺时针 90 度调转。另外,别忘了仔细学习一下「万国码标准附录」的第五十条「万国码纵排文本布局」(UAX #50, Unicode Vertical Text Layout)。

Adobe InDesign 在全部启用内建的日语排版功能支持之后,就成了目前世界上最复杂的日语排版应用……意味著其自身「代表了(日语排版应用的)高门槛」。不过,它也不是没有不足之处。朕在十二年前亲自给这本书排版的时候,用的是 Adobe InDesign CS3 的日语版,当时就遇到了一些问题。等到朕找出这些问题的全部应对方法的时候,朕不得不写两页白皮书汇总一下朕遇到的这些问题。耐人寻味的是,十二年过去了,这其中有些问题仍旧没被解决。当然,朕用的是 Adobe InDesign 2020,且朕估计到了十月份应该就能用上 2021 版了。

I was about to translate it to Japanese, but I gave up due to my lack of familiarity regarding how typographical terms shall be translated into Japanese.

============== UPDATE ==========

I am translating Ken's reply right below this post:

Quote

這套教材的第一版有繁體中文與日文翻譯,且都是在 2002 年出版的。相比第二版少了一些跟進的內容,但請接受這份薄禮(第七章「排印」)。

 

Edited by ShikiSuen
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The first edition of my book was translated into Chinese (traditional) and Japanese, and both were published in 2002. Although the content does not benefit from the additional and updated material that is available in the second edition version of Chapter 7, Typography, please enjoy these small gifts.

cjkvip1e-ja-ch7.pdf cjkvip1e-tc-ch7.pdf

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  • 2 months later...

Hello, I'm French and I work on both Indesign and QuarkXpress. I'm also starting to work on Affinity Publisher. It depends on the type of work and the client. But when I have to do layout in Japanese, I use QuarkXPress 2020 which for me is better than Indesign both with vertical and horizontal text as well as Rubi. With Indesign I have to buy an extension for the vertical text as well as for the use of Rubi. So if with the Adobe subscription I still have to pay a subscription for extensions, it is extremely expensive.

 

Capture d’écran 2020-12-02 à 19.37.40.png

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15 hours ago, hang5 said:

Hello, I'm French and I work on both Indesign and QuarkXpress. I'm also starting to work on Affinity Publisher. It depends on the type of work and the client. But when I have to do layout in Japanese, I use QuarkXPress 2020 which for me is better than Indesign both with vertical and horizontal text as well as Rubi. With Indesign I have to buy an extension for the vertical text as well as for the use of Rubi. So if with the Adobe subscription I still have to pay a subscription for extensions, it is extremely expensive.

Apparently you are not aware that full CJK functionality is easily activated in Adobe InDesign per my Medium article from a little over a year ago.

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  • 4 months later...

While I confirmed that the current VectorStyler, which is advertised as Beta, certainly supports vertical writing, the input experience, at least with the default Japanese IME for macOS, is extremely subpar. Maybe it is because it is Beta.

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49 minutes ago, lunde said:

While I confirmed that the current VectorStyler, which is advertised as Beta, certainly supports vertical writing, the input experience, at least with the default Japanese IME for macOS, is extremely subpar. Maybe it is because it is Beta.

Yes, because it's beta.
But look at them. vertical writing was requested only 2 months ago and there aren't many Asian testers.
Affiniy still has no plan to implement it after 6 years, on the other hand  not only vertical writing but implementation of every feature in VectorStyler is crazy fast compare to Affinity.
Soon VectorStyler will surpass Affinity in typography feature and has already surpassed in many features such as warping, gradient mesh and so on.

I'm satisfied with Affinity and not blaming Serif, but they should look at VectorStyler and think how the development should be.

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10 hours ago, ashf said:

implementation of every feature in VectorStyler is crazy fast compare to Affinity

Would you use VectorStyler for any mission critical work, now?

It's a toy to play with, or a "plugin" to compensate for some missing Affinity features via clipboard exchange.
But so far, I haven't had the patience to seriously dive into it.
One reason being that VectorStyler is seriously suffering from Featuritis. ;)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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I may have stated this previously in this thread, but I use InDesign on an almost daily basis, along with other Adobe apps by virtue of having a lifetime Creative Cloud subscription. I bought Affinity Publisher a year and a half ago, mainly to play with it. I believe there was a promotional price at the time. In other words, I am spoiled in that I am able to use a mature app that includes excellent features, such as vertical writing. Still, InDesign is far from perfect, and I still maintain my skills that expose bugs in that app, most of which are font-related, because that is my specialty. I also know how to bring InDesign to its knees. Click here for an example from four years ago.

Anyway, Affinity Publisher is a more mature app than VectorStyler, and as a result, I believe that it is more difficult for them to change their layout paradigm to accommodate a new writing direction. More mature apps need to consider issues, such as backward compatibility and so on, when making fundamental changes to their layout paradigm. This is less of a concern for less mature apps, such as those still in Beta.

I, for one, am grateful that there are apps out there, such as Affinity Publisher and vectorStyle, because any competition can serve as motivation for Adobe to improve InDesign, and to fix bugs sooner rather than later. For example, I found quite a few bugs in InDesign's support for Variable Fonts, one of which is a very fundamental issue that affects Illustrator and Photoshop as well.

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On 4/30/2021 at 4:25 AM, loukash said:

Would you use VectorStyler for any mission critical work, now?

It's a toy to play with, or a "plugin" to compensate for some missing Affinity features via clipboard exchange.
But so far, I haven't had the patience to seriously dive into it.
One reason being that VectorStyler is seriously suffering from Featuritis. ;)

I wouldn't, just testing.
Honestly I barely need vertical writing so I'm not so interested in it myself.

But people complaining about vertical writing support in Affinity should try other options rather than just complaining here.
Same goes for people complaining about RTL support.
Or even MS Word/Apple Pages are much better than Affinity at Asian/Middle Eastern typography.
Otherwise, Serif may take eon to implement to it.

If they are satisfied with it, then the problem will be solved.
Or they will notice how good Affinity is and come back to here, that's rather my intension. lol

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  • 2 weeks later...

That's the crux when you develop these apps cross platform, I guess. If it were a fully "native" Obj C or Swift app, adding these kind of text features would be super easy to implement, because there are frameworks to support it. If lowly TextEdit.app on macOS has it, you can be damn sure there's a framework to enable that functionality with close to zero effort, but alas.

As much as I love Affinity that's where I see the weakness of cross platform apps, where you always end up with kind of a lowest common denominator. Many features that you could get almost "for free", if you'd only use the latest and greatest native frameworks of one platform (and then spend more time focusing on adding extra value to the end user) – you have to implement from scratch, spending lots of dev time on stuff that should work "out of the box" in the first place.

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  • 6 months later...

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