Preferences window UI is frustratingly designed

[Mark Ingram]

OK, we've intentionally not included the list of keyboard shortcuts in the search (as there's so many it could make it difficult to find the preferences page you wanted), we could potentially look at adding this to the search results as well.

[Aammppaa]

I'd argue that because there are so many keyboard shortcuts is precisely why the search box should search them!

It is very frustrating scrolling through a huge list especially when you aren't sure where to look, or if the shortcut even exists.

For example: Toggle Lock Children.

I searched through ~300 shortcuts just to find there is not keyboard option available.

[woefi]

I'm not a fan of the current preferences panel, but I think the search field in the titlebar is OK for titles and checkboxes in the preferences.
But there is also a need to quickly find a menu item for which you want to define a shortcut. I would not recommend combining them as the functionality is rather different.

Hmn... Maybe add a free-text "filter" beneath the shortcut categories? there is plenty room...

 

[Sam Neil]

On 10/30/2019 at 3:18 PM, Mark Ingram said:

For the people that find the Preferences window to be "a mess", what operating system are you on? Just interested to know if you're all Windows users...

I am a Windows user and use the 3 applications and I agree, the Mac-centric approach and the placement of the OK & Cancel buttons are a mess on windows.

[Pšenda]

On 10/31/2019 at 7:31 AM, dominik said:

I think it would be better to have a list of section names at the left side of the preferences window or maybe some icons across the top of the window. This would save one click inbetween section changes (and add additionally a permanent overview of available preference sections). 

Just to show how a properly created form/dialog for setting preferences with significantly higher complexity, including searching.

 

[dominik]

16 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Just to show how a properly created form/dialog for setting preferences with significantly higher complexity, including searching.

 

Yes, something like this I had in mind. The good thing is it can grow over time.

d.

[Granddaddy]

What does it imply about users' view of Serif that users think it is necessary to describe what a Preferences dialog should or could do and how it should or could look?

Should we not be able to assume that Serif's program designers are already extremely familiar with a wide variety of interfaces implemented long ago by their competitors in photo applications and other complex software? 

Alas, Mark's post above indicates that providing a useful Preferences dialog is a low priority. As in many aspects of APhoto, it is something they'd like to do someday. Then again, perhaps it is already being worked on, but, as we are often told, not even user support personnel are allowed to know the specifics of development plans and timing.

 

[Granddaddy]

3 hours ago, Sam Neil said:

I am a Windows user and use the 3 applications and I agree, the Mac-centric approach and the placement of the OK & Cancel buttons are a mess on windows.

Not to mention the Picker button that is sometimes on the right and sometimes on the left of Adjustments dialogs.

And not to mention the absence of OK/Cancel buttons so that exiting an Adjustments dialog applies whatever changes you've made making it difficult when experimenting to return to your previous settings. 

But I am reminded that it is a poor workman that argues with his tools, so I strive to adapt to the Serif way of doing things.

[angelhdz12]

On 1/28/2020 at 1:00 PM, Granddaddy said:

What does it imply about users' view of Serif that users think it is necessary to describe what a Preferences dialog should or could do and how it should or could look?

Should we not be able to assume that Serif's program designers are already extremely familiar with a wide variety of interfaces implemented long ago by their competitors in photo applications and other complex software? 

Alas, Mark's post above indicates that providing a useful Preferences dialog is a low priority. As in many aspects of APhoto, it is something they'd like to do someday. Then again, perhaps it is already being worked on, but, as we are often told, not even user support personnel are allowed to know the specifics of development plans and timing.

We are the customers. We are the consumers of the product. We dictate what we want, or we move to other alternatives. Don't like your attitude of taking away people rights to haven an opinion on something, and even more when they are paying for it.

[Move Along People]

-

[AndyQ]

On 4/24/2020 at 6:45 PM, haakoo said:

What you want would not be what I want and stated many times before it isn't a democracy but you deal with dish served.

It certainly shouldn't be a democracy, but there are quite a few UI failings based on objective parameters.  If you are providing functionality in software you have to decide how to expose that functionality to the user. You have to know how they employ functionality and provide access to meet their needs. In the case of the preferences window it seems inarguable that going back and forth between screens is less efficient than other methods, such as a tabbed interface or a dual-pane approach (with a list of categories to flip through on the left, the parameters on the right). Another consideration is whether some of these preferences might be things users would change frequently, in which case they should be part of the main interface instead of a "preference".  The developers may not always have the experience in production to know what users are doing with the software, so the feedback is necessary. I recall the early days of graphic software where setting the measurement units might be a "preference", until developers realised that people were changing units constantly from job-to-job or whilst working on a single job; thus interfaces were added to allow quick switching of measurements, mixed-measurement systems and field-based entry of values in any desired unit. Not only that, but we've now had many decades of UI design history, and there are examples of efficient solutions readily available - and if the developers aren't aware of those then the users may well be. If you make a tool you'll never know exactly how it might be used. When you get feedback you can improve that tool to better serve those purposes not envisaged. You get happier customers, you get more customers. As far as functionality goes, I'm very happy with what Affinity provides as it stands - I'd rather see development work on making the UI more consistent and efficient than adding fancy tricks.  

[skmwrp]

Quote

• Ignore Modifier—Lets you create shortcuts using a single letter designation instead of using keyboard modifiers.

Can someone from Serif please explain what this means, as asked in the original post? I don't get it either.

Seems like nothing but a dead checkbox left in the interface.

[walt.farrell]

20 minutes ago, skmwrp said:

Can someone from Serif please explain what this means, as asked in the original post? I don't get it either.

Seems like nothing but a dead checkbox left in the interface.

Someone from Serif probably can, but as I've just done some experimentation I'll mention what I've found.

In Photo 1.9.1.952 beta I decided to set a shortcut for Edit in Designer.

1. First experiment: With Ignore Modifier off (default) when I set the shortcut by typing "a" and it displayed as A (matching what shows on the keycap on the keyboard). To use this shortcut I press the A key without having shift pressed. If I wanted I could have some other shortcut defined as Shift+A.
   I then deleted that shortcut.
    
2. Second experiment: I set Ignore Modifier. I again set a shortcut for Edit in Designer by typing "a", and the shortcut that was set was displayed as a (not A). At that point I can type a (just as in experiment 1) and it will perform "Edit in Designer". I left that shortcut defined.
    
3. Third Experiment: I set Ignore Modifier. I then set a shortcut for Edit in Publisher by typing Shift+A. This shortcut is displayed as A. I now have one displayed as "a" for Edit in Photo and one displayed as "A" for Edit in Publisher. And at this point if I press "a" it performs Edit in Photo but if I press Shift+A it performs Edit in Publisher.

Conclusion: The modifier being ignored is the shift key, and the function allows you to use the lower-case letters as keyboard shortcuts, distinct from the upper-case versions.

Actually, that's wrong. It allows you to use lower-case keys as distinct from upper-case or shifted keys. It may be a bit more obvious if we consider non-alphabetic keys. For example, with Ignore Modifier off, you could assign "," and "Shift+," as shortcuts. With Ignore Modifier on, you could assign "," and "<" (standard US keyboard).

This has a potential advantage in being able to say (or remember) "push , to do function x" and "push < to do function y". It might be easier to remember or understand.

And it might have an advantage if you have keyboards with different key layouts, but that's not something I can test.

 

 

[Nikola Kovac]

Version 1.10 still no signs of improvement in Preferences window.

Coming from the software development industry I presume this is a low priority feature to Serif not because it is not important, but because it is not a "shop window" feature, it does not sell units, it just bugs us suckers that already payed for the thing.

For me personally, because I switch many different apps during one day (or what hurts even more, one month, when you use some apps every xouple o days or weeks), preferences is one of the most important features, that makes strong first impressions. Not being able to quickly tweak the tool to my liking and preference, means huge frustration as I stated in the title. It means that switching to Affinity app in the time of need will hurt my brain trying to adapt to shortcuts that I did not have time or energy changing to my preference because of the useless UI design of shortcuts tab in app preferences. I do not need Affinity apps every day but I do need them, and they are important to me.

I already switched some of my other bread and butter apps with newer ones that had these basic UI paradigms sorted out. We live in a world that is being filled with more and more options, and features and things. Software developers that make their features and tool more easily available and usable are gonna get more buyers because most users, and most tasks only call for the minority of basic features, and to me being able to make these basic features even more easily available by setting my own shortcuts is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. Serif treating this as low priority is making a mistake I think. Ask Blender devs what a rethink of UI can do for the user acquisition.

Better general UX and UI is exactly why I switched from Adobe to Affinty apps in the first place too.. not the number of features.

[Intuos5]

Agreed with the sentiment here, the current menu requires too many clicks and inputs to go through.

1. Other apps have direct shortcuts to preference sections, which is particularly important to edit keyboard shortcuts. Remember that the keyboard is the interface between people and the computer, the way keys are "wired" or configured, determines that the program executes what I have in mind intuitively. When users customise hotkeys, they become natural habits that are both faster and more ergonomic than reaching for toolbar items, because the latter requires more input.
2. I also think there should be options to configure mouse click and modifier key behaviour, some may prefer to add to selections using shift, others prefer ctrl, this in turn impacts which keys toggle selection or remove from selection. It all depends on the software that one grew up with using first and thus it should be under preferences, just like Blender and mostly other CAD packages provide.
3. There should be options to add additional shortcuts to a single command, e.g. zoom using the Numpad - and Numpad + keys or by using ctrl - and ctrl +. That way, redundant keys can be configured in case one frequently uses programs with keyboard shortcuts with the first paradigm and later work in other software that uses the second paradigm. This makes switching a breeze.
4. There should also be a search window where you can input keyboard shortcuts as query, this helps to see which keys are still available or to check what command you had assigned to a certain keystring, this is a memory aid.

[fde101]

1 hour ago, Intuos5 said:

the keyboard is the interface between people and the computer

Not in a true GUI environment such as macOS.  The pointing device (mouse) takes precedent over the keyboard for most interactions.

 

1 hour ago, Intuos5 said:

both faster and more ergonomic than reaching for toolbar items, because the latter requires more input

Not necessarily true: http://9p.io/wiki/plan9/mouse_vs._keyboard/

 

1 hour ago, Intuos5 said:

There should also be a search window where you can input keyboard shortcuts as query

A better way to handle this is the way that Final Cut Pro X presents keyboard shortcut customization - it actually puts a virtual keyboard in the window and clicking on a key shows the shortcuts assigned to it with each combination of modifiers:

[Intuos5]

7 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Blender is still confusing. Remember that a new GUI effectively renders all the old tutorials useless as they do not match what is on screen. I have experienced this myself recently.

Software continues to develop and tutorials inevitable end up being outdated at some point. The main point here is that, it is important to make changes to the UI if it is for the better and results in fewer or more intuitive user input, which boosts productivity. If that means that past workflows may be broken, then so be it. I prefer to take a minute or two to learn to new workflow over getting stuck using a convoluted workaround, simply because of a decision that was made long ago and no longer relevant in the new context. The main issue that Blender has is that some menu items are constantly switched to different categories and this takes a while to crystallise into something that is coherent and better, but that's also at the heart of (open source) software, it's called iterative development.

[Intuos5]

5 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Not in a true GUI environment such as macOS.  The pointing device (mouse) takes precedent over the keyboard for most interactions.

A better way to handle this is the way that Final Cut Pro X presents keyboard shortcut customization - it actually puts a virtual keyboard in the window and clicking on a key shows the shortcuts assigned to it with each combination of modifiers:

Sure, that's better, but also a more time demanding feature and I think a simple search box in addition to the other suggestions posted above would suffice for now as there are more pressing features missing than such a GUI imo. Though the keyboard shortcuts section of the preferences is one of the major pressing concerns if you'd ask me.

[chessboard]

5 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The point it, it is not 'a minute or two'. It is hours of frustration (with Blender), because every tutorial you look at is out of date. I remember trying to do 3d text in Blender, something which should be as easy as pie. Tutorial after tutorial on YouTube did not match what I saw on screen. Then only way I found this out was by looking for tutorials = lots of wasted time.

Oh, come on! The first tutorials I find on youtube when typing "blender text" are all for version 2.8 and above, which has the new GUI. Not really hard to find a tutorial that is up to date.

[Aleksandar Kovač]

V2 and still the same criticism regarding the preferences GUI applies. Especially so for shortcuts, which is a sad excuse for an editor. It is like wild goose chase while playing cat and mouse in a mystery novel. Oh, a conflict! Hm... Guess who. Find a command to edit shortcut for? Alphabetically/contextually/randomly? An alphabetical list of ALL commands and a search would have been better, really.