Problems and suggestions about text styles

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi,

here are some problems and suggestions I have with text styles:

PROBLEMS

• Character formating is reseted when clicked on paragraph style no matter if it is formated with local formating or with character style.

SUGGESTIONS

• Paragraph and character "No Style" must be editable (as any other) for changing the defaults.
• In ID and Quark, when no document is opened, you can add/change/remove any text style (and preferences, colors, gradients...) and they will appear in any new document after that.

[A_B_C]

In ID and Quark, when no document is opened, you can add/change/remove any text style … and they will appear in any new document after that.

Petar, you can do this in Affinity Publisher as well. Just open a blank document (this is the only difference), create a set of styles to your liking, and use Save as Default from the hamburger menu of the Text Styles Studio. 

[A_B_C]

Paragraph and character "No Style" must be editable (as any other) for changing the defaults.

I would support that request. Currently we can use Edit > Defaults > Synchronise from Selection to select a default font etc. for new text frames across documents. But I think it would make sense that either (a) invoking this menu command changed the default styles or (b) that we could edit the default styles directly.

[Petar Petrenko]

13 minutes ago, A_B_C said:

In ID and Quark, when no document is opened, you can add/change/remove any text style … and they will appear in any new document after that.

Petar, you can do this in Affinity Publisher as well. Just open a blank document (this is the only difference), create a set of styles to your liking, and use Save as Default from the hamburger menu of the Text Styles Studio. 

"Save as Default" can be understood also as when you place a text it will be formated with it.

[A_B_C]

Yes, they should probably name this menu item Save as default styles or Save styles as default. It is a bit confusing. 

[Dave Harris]

5 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Hi,

here are some problems and suggestions I have with text styles:

PROBLEMS

• Character formating is reseted when clicked on paragraph style no matter if it is formated with local formating or with character style.

SUGGESTIONS

• Paragraph and character "No Style" must be editable (as any other) for changing the defaults.
• In ID and Quark, when no document is opened, you can add/change/remove any text style (and preferences, colors, gradients...) and they will appear in any new document after that.

That paragraph styles override character styles is a bug that will be fixed in a future beta. (It was fixed in our code during the week, but I don't know which beta it will be included in.)

You can change the default formatting of new text via the Character and Paragraph panels. You can save these defaults for new documents by using Edit > Defaults > Save. You can't do this from the Text Styles panel because the default formatting doesn't have anything to do with styles.

Others have explained how to change the default stylesheet for new documents. Everything in that hamburger menu affects the whole stylesheet. Command that affect just one style are in the menu attached to that style.

[A_B_C]

9 hours ago, Dave Harris said:

You can change the default formatting of new text via the Character and Paragraph panels. You can save these defaults for new documents by using Edit > Defaults > Save. You can't do this from the Text Styles panel because the default formatting doesn't have anything to do with styles.

Honestly, I don’t really understand the idea of the “No Style” option then. What is it supposed to do?

• I create a text frame, enter some text, select it, and apply the font American Typewriter to my selection
• I use Edit > Defaults > Synchronise from Selection
• I apply a paragraph style to my text, that changes the font to Avenir Next
• Finally, I click No Paragraph Style
• What I would expect: The text turns back to my default font, which is American Typewriter.
• What it does: It applies Arial.

So obviously the “No Style” option is indeed a “Style” option, for it sets a text attribute different from the defaults I have chosen! Therefore I would need to edit this style to have a true default one, just as Petar suggested. Please help me understand this. 

 

[Dave Harris]

The current defaults change every time you change some text settings, and they include the style. So if "No Style" reverted to that, usually it would have no effect. Instead it reverts to the default defaults - that is, the defaults you have set for new documents with Edit > Defaults > Save. It's really the best we can do. Ideally removing the style would restore the formatting the text had before you started applying styles, but that information is forgotten by the time you remove them.

[A_B_C]

Thank you for this clarification. I think I do understand this better now. 

But then I believe there is a slight bug in the system. Here are the steps to reproduce:

1. Create a new document and reset the defaults to factory settings.
2. Create text frame, type in some text, and apply a different font (Adobe Caslon).
3. Make this font the new default font for the present document as well as for the application (Edit > Defaults > Synchronise from Selection and Edit > Defaults > Save).
4. Apply a paragraph style to your text that assigns a different font (Open Sans).
5. Select No Style. Font is reverted to Arial.
6. Create a second document and a text frame.
7. Type in some text, apply your paragraph style again.
8. Select No Style. Font is reverted to Adobe Caslon.

I believe (5) is a bug, while (8) is correct. The new default font, set in (2), is not immediately recognized in the context of the same document, but only in a new document. Sorry for the lengthy video.

 

[Petar Petrenko]

10 hours ago, Dave Harris said:

The current defaults change every time you change some text settings, and they include the style. So if "No Style" reverted to that, usually it would have no effect. Instead it reverts to the default defaults - that is, the defaults you have set for new documents with Edit > Defaults > Save. It's really the best we can do. Ideally removing the style would restore the formatting the text had before you started applying styles, but that information is forgotten by the time you remove them.

What settings does this command save:

1. Only the one regarding fonts and styles?
2. Something like ID when you open a new document and all the changes you did in the previously saved document are preserved. If so, then why this does not happen automatically without any need for this command?
3. something else?

Personally, I preffer number 2.

[A_B_C]

It will save all defaults, not only for font attributes, but also for object attributes like stroke and fill etc. 

(In my video, I used Synchronise from Selection to make sure that defaults are saved for the present document and used Save to save the defaults for the application. I don’t know whether the first step is actually necessary. But I updated the bug description to make this more clear.)