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serge

Handling bleed in 1.7.0.58 (split)

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I do not know if I am missing something.

I am trying to set up publisher for a magazine format with the blurb specifications. but something is off, the bleed guide seems to be outside the document. I have included the screen grabs showing the blurb magazine specifications, the publisher document settings, margin settings and bleed settings., as well the publisher file.

am I doing something wrong or is there a setting missing in the beta software.

also the bleed guide is in grey color, is there a setting somewhere in the software to set the custom color for margin guide and bleed guide

sample.afpub

bleed settings.png

margins settings.png

blurb specifications.png

document size.png

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Hi serge,

it is correct that the bleed area appears outside the page. One could discuss whether the bleed should have a different background, or whether the bleed guidelines should have a different colour (currently there is no way to change this), but basically the current way of displaying the bleed area seems to be fairly standard. So I am not entirely sure what you mean by “the bleed area is outside the document.” 

Just to make sure that we have the same understanding, bleed is an area for printing that goes beyond the edge of where the sheet will be trimmed. So the bleed area is the part of a document that provides the printer with a certain amount of space to account for the movement of the paper and similar effects in the printing process. Artwork and background colors often extend into the bleed area, and I believe you would call these “bled-off elements” in English. In German they are called “randabfallende Elemente.”

So technically, I believe the implementation is pretty standard. When you export your pages to PDF, the bleed area will be added, and you can select crop and other printer marks to be rendered into your PDF. Have a look at my screenshots. You will have to click the More … button in PDF export and choose the option Include Bleed. Then the page elements extending into the bleed area will be rendered to the PDF including their parts that lie beyond the crop marks. Does that make sense?

Could you elaborate a bit on your problem? :)

Alex

 

Publisher.png.46ac21454a4daf83edcff99ab23f4d21.png

PDF.png.2cc05bac5805da85a317db1d6a4a2187.png

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11 minutes ago, A_B_C said:

Hi serge,

it is correct that the bleed area appears outside the page. One could discuss whether the bleed should have a different background, or whether the bleed guidelines should have a different colour (currently there is no way to change this), but basically the current way of displaying the bleed area seems to be fairly standard. So I am not entirely sure what you mean by “the bleed area is outside the document.” 

Just to make sure that we have the same understanding, bleed is an area for printing that goes beyond the edge of where the sheet will be trimmed. So the bleed area is the part of a document that provides the printer with a certain amount of space to account for the movement of the paper and similar effects in the printing process. Artwork and background colors often extend into the bleed area, and I believe you would call these “bled-off elements” in English. In German they are called “randabfallende Elemente.”

So technically, I believe the implementation is pretty standard. When you export your pages to PDF, the bleed area will be added, and you can select crop and other printer marks to be rendered into your PDF. Have a look at my screenshots. You will have to click the More … button in PDF export and choose the option Include Bleed. Then the page elements extending into the bleed area will be rendered to the PDF including their parts that lie beyond the crop marks. Does that make sense?

Could you elaborate a bit on your problem? :)

Alex

 

Publisher.png.46ac21454a4daf83edcff99ab23f4d21.png

PDF.png.2cc05bac5805da85a317db1d6a4a2187.png

So my document should show like that (screenshot in publisher) with the grey lines being the bleed?:

and my pdf layout should be :

 

publisher-layout.png

pdf-layout.png

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12 minutes ago, serge said:

So my document should show like that (screenshot in publisher) with the grey lines being the bleed?:

and my pdf layout should be :

Exactly! Those grey lines are there just to show where the page will, ideally, be cut after binding. But it never works out that way…

If you look at, say, a couple banknotes, which are as precise a printed object as they get, not even those are all entirely the same (there's a reason why the background design – or their lack thereof – extends over to the edges in a simplified way, so they can be cut to measure from large sheets and still allow for the tiniest bit of misalignment).

As you might guess, our regular printing jobs are not very mission-critical by comparison, and one or two mm. of deviation are actually fairly standard especially after the booklets are bound, as the edges of the inner spreads extend outwards a bit more than the outward ones (that's why most bleeds are at least 3-5 mm in width).

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5 minutes ago, serge said:

So my document should show like that (screenshot in publisher) with the grey lines being the bleed?:

correct for most print shops. That's standard in dtp-programs.

For blurb, I think, it could be, that they don't need the crop marks, as their final size includes only bleed and the marks increase the size even more.


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Right, it seems that they didn’t ask for the crop marks … but I would check this with them directly. I have never created a photo book with them. :(

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1 hour ago, serge said:

So my document should show like that (screenshot in publisher) with the grey lines being the bleed?:

and my pdf layout should be :

 

publisher-layout.png

pdf-layout.png

As a former photo editor I'm going to suggest you pull back the green saturation on those leaves unless it's some kind of color matching issue? First example looks normal / believable. Second example looks like a leprechaun relieved himself on the leaves in the foreground and far background. Or possibly they were fertilized with plutonium? <g>

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11 hours ago, Demeisen said:

Yep, same here. CTD on my 2017 MacBook Pro as soon as I open a document created in the previous Beta. I can copy and paste assets from Affinity Designer into Publisher with no ill effects though.

This happens even when you try to open a document saved with the current beta.  Someone else mentioned that there might be a conflict with the Wacom drivers, so I deleted all of those and the problem still persists.  It seems that the current beta is unusable unfortunately as I can't seem to do anything to reopen any Publisher document.

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My one concern with the way bleeds are handled is that for the beginning page, and the final page (not in a spread) there is bleed on both the left and right sides, instead of omitting the bleed from the binding edge. I was concerned there might be issues with printing in this case, but perhaps not?

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after further fiddling, I have realized that the only way my document works properly with blurbs specifications is if I set the bleeds settings to 0, as show in the publisher file attached.

Screen Shot 2018-09-08 at 23.07.10.png

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On 9/8/2018 at 3:11 AM, dorkboycomics said:

My one concern with the way bleeds are handled is that for the beginning page, and the final page (not in a spread) there is bleed on both the left and right sides, instead of omitting the bleed from the binding edge. I was concerned there might be issues with printing in this case, but perhaps not?

This is how Affinity Publisher handles the matter when exporting to PDF. Suppose you create an element in your document that spans across an entire spread, including the bleed area. Then you can export either spreads or pages to PDF.

  • When you export single pages (Export > Area > All Pages or Export > Area > Current Page), you will see that Affinity Publisher will effectively create a bleed area along the binding edge and duplicate the respective page contents into this area. In other words, it will take the first closest millimetres of the opposite page’s content and add that to the bleed area. In my screenshot, you will see that the letters that fall into the (virtual) bleed area along the binding edge appear on both of the exported pages, as is to be expected.
  • On the other hand, when you export to spreads (Export > Area > All Pages or Export > Area > Current Page), there won’t be an additional bleed area at the binding edge, of course.

Indesign does it a little differently. There you can specify bleed for the inner and the outer edge of a page, rather than for the left and the right edge. This will give you more flexibility, for you can export to single pages without having a bleed area along the binding edge. I haven’t found a way to do this in Publisher so far.

In any case, you will have to ask your printshop how they want to have your PDF documents. They will usually advise you how to setup your document and make the necessary adjustments during imposition, depending on the binding method. :)

Pages-vs-Spreads.thumb.png.7c3b51b1615ca16966db76416fbf0762.png

 

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14 hours ago, A_B_C said:

This is how Affinity Publisher handles the matter when exporting to PDF. Suppose you create an element in your document that spans across an entire spread, including the bleed area. Then you can export either spreads or pages to PDF.

  • When you export single pages (Export > Area > All Pages or Export > Area > Current Page), you will see that Affinity Publisher will effectively create a bleed area along the binding edge and duplicate the respective page contents into this area. In other words, it will take the first closest millimetres of the opposite page’s content and add that to the bleed area. In my screenshot, you will see that the letters that fall into the (virtual) bleed area along the binding edge appear on both of the exported pages, as is to be expected.
  • On the other hand, when you export to spreads (Export > Area > All Pages or Export > Area > Current Page), there won’t be an additional bleed area at the binding edge, of course.

Indesign does it a little differently. There you can specify bleed for the inner and the outer edge of a page, rather than for the left and the right edge. This will give you more flexibility, for you can export to single pages without having a bleed area along the binding edge. I haven’t found a way to do this in Publisher so far.

In any case, you will have to ask your printshop how they want to have your PDF documents. They will usually advise you how to setup your document and make the necessary adjustments during imposition, depending on the binding method. :)

Pages-vs-Spreads.thumb.png.7c3b51b1615ca16966db76416fbf0762.png

 

Be that as it may, On my document, I have to put 0 in the the fields on the bleed section ( and export the document to pages, not to spreads), otherwise, the exported pdf document is not compatible with the Blurb requirements showed in my initial post. It is weird. 

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serge,

as you could have guessed from the quotation my post started with, this answer wasn’t directed to you, but to dorkyboycomics.

I still don’t understand where you see a problem meeting the Blurb requirements. Could you highlight the point in your screenshot of the Blurb webpage?

The only issue I see is the bleed area along the binding edge. This is not specified in the Blurb requirements, so there is no need to interpret this as zero bleed. Or are you concerned about the overall size of your PDF document? This is immaterial for printing purposes, as long as the bleed area and the area defined by the crop marks have the proper size. Setting bleed to zero does not make sense and will prove detrimental with the example you have shown earlier in this thread. So please elaborate a little more about the issues you see.

Thank you,

Alex

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Here are the blurb specifications for the document (premium magazine) that I created on affinity publisher (see blurb_settings.png image)

I set in publisher  bleed options (see publisher_bleed setting.png image) the bleed specifications that are stated there and, in the export option (see export_options.png image), I have to select "all pages" instead of "all spread".
 

If, on the other hand, I set the bleeds to 0 in publisher options (see bleed_options_set_to_zero_in_publisher.png image), the resulting pdf uploaded to blurb pass is accepted with success (see blurb_successful_upload.png image).

 

So, in effect, like I said before, my document is only accepted by blurb if I do not set any bleed at all.

Now if you look at the blurb specifications (see sizes_specs.png image) you can see that:

- there is a setting for the "Final exported PDF File" which states  8.625 inches x 11.25 inches,

- and there is a setting for the "page size/trim line" : which states 8.5 inches x 11.0 inches.

but in Affinity publisher, there is no option to set the difference between the "Final exported PDF File" and the page size/trim line. there is only an option to set dimensions of page (see page_dimensions.png image).

 

So the question is, what values do i need to enter in the publisher settings to have the bleeds included in my document and for the exported pdf file to be compliant with the blurb requirements.

I used scribes before, and I was able to have my pdf document complying with blurb, even with entering the bleed value specified in the blurb specs. Am I missing something on publisher?

 

 

blurb_settings.png

publisher_bleed setting.png

export_options.png

blurb_error_message.png

bleed_options_set_to_zero_in_publisher.png

blurb_successful_upload.png

sizes_specs.png

page_dimensions.png

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Thank you. Now it seems clear why your document is rejected. They are pretty picky with the overall document size including bleed. So the problem seems to be that you need (a) to design on facing pages, (b) to export to a single-page PDF, and (c) to respect the size specifications for the overall document width very precisely. This is indeed a problem, because Affinity Publisher, unlike Indesign, does not allow you to specify a binding edge bleed and an outside edge bleed, but only a left and a right bleed area.

  • Therefore, your overall page width (single-page PDF) will be at least 8.75 in = 8.5 in + 0.125 in (left bleed area) + 0.125 in (right bleed area)
  • But the requirement is 8.625 in = 8.5 in + 0.125 in (outside edge bleed)

If (a) and (b) are both true, I fear you cannot use the bleed settings provided by Publisher. Then you will have to set the bleed to zero and do things manually, as you seem to have done. :(

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Thanks for all of that info @A_B_C !

I am in a similar situation to @serge where I use Create Space, and they also require the PDF to be output to single pages....that said, I was reading in another post that support for printing to single page PDFs is coming soon :D So I think that may resolve this single page bleed issue causing the page size to be too large to be accepted by these printers, which would be terrific.

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I must say, from reading this thread, I have no clear idea what this new export mode will entail or whether it will solve the problem discussed in this thread. I created a feature request for Inside/Outside Bleed that would solve your problem:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/67263-insideoutside-bleed-instead-of-leftright-bleed/

:)

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I really like and appreciate Affinity Publisher so far, but I am in the same situation as @serge, working with a printer called IngramSpark.  It's impossible for me to proceed to print unless I use another program (they require exact bleed area).   Following thread.  

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