Affinity Publisher is not a copy of InDesign - no massive fail!

[MikeW 1,458]

7 minutes ago, musiberti said:

No, I'm not arrogant. I'm very frustrated.

Global Layers are a very basic function. And almost nobody knows about that?
I hoped for a real replacement of InDesign. But if you are happy with a little App for amateurs...

See? You started off fine by equating arrogance with frustration. I was ok with that.

Your second paragraph was ok, though you should remember there are few users in this thread. And they may not have your experience. So the choice is to set aside your frustration in order to patiently explain and at some point leave ir alone. 

Or, you can like in the third paragraph, go on to prove my point.

[aleale1 3]

24 minutes ago, musiberti said:

The problem with global layers is that they do not exist in Publisher. You have to do the same thing on every page, again and again.....

 

[Petar Petrenko 323]

All of us were "lost in translation". We just use different terminology for same things. Time was needed to leverage everything and start seaking "the same language".

[musiberti 32]

2 minutes ago, haakoo said:

The same as I do with masterpages isn't it?
Besides the masterPages are created as grouped layers inside the pages

mpExample.afpub

No, Master Pages are for static Objects (the framework of a page), layers are for the content. If you have to present alternative Content for all pages of a document, you have to use Global Layers. There is simply no other way.

[musiberti 32]

2 minutes ago, aleale1 said:

 

Your example shows just one rectangle. For different objects (maybe a circle one page 2) with just 1 layer, you will need global layers.

[musiberti 32]

look here.

[MikeW 1,458]

17 minutes ago, musiberti said:

...I hoped for a real replacement of InDesign. But if you are happy with a little App for amateurs...

This is where you perhaps have gone all wrong in your expectations.

APub is, when released, a 1.x application. Right now it is really a .x application. Did you ever use version 1 of InDesign? Are you aware of ID's development history, which began before Adobe ever bought Aldus? Even once Adobe began working on the code they bought for what would become InDesign, it took them nearly 5 years before ID 1.0 was released. And no one in their right mind that worked in a production environment would use it. It wasn't even moderately usable at version 2.x. Even so, no one i knew worked with ID on a daily basis until the CS version hit the market.

And that same scenario as regards production environments may well hold true with APub, too. If ever. But not necessarily for the layers thing. Not every production shop does multi-lingual work. Far from it in my experience.

The choice is your as regards whether you encourage Serif to reconsider how layers work or to belittle others who disagree with you.

[musiberti 32]

15 minutes ago, MikeW said:

This is where you perhaps have gone all wrong in your expectations.

No, I know that it's a beta. But the lack of global layers seems to be wanted. That let me believe various statements by moderators (in other threads) . I think that's a very big mistake, because ultimately it means that the publisher will never prevail in a professional environment.

[aleale1 3]

Just now, musiberti said:

look here.

I can't download your video

[musiberti 32]

3 minutes ago, aleale1 said:

I can't download your video

The video is here too:

 

[musiberti 32]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

Not every production shop does multi-lingual work.

Global Layers are not only for multi-lingual work. There are thousands of purposes and it would be a huge loss if global layers are not included in the Publisher. Please do not hesitate, that I do not wish the Publisher any harm. I'm just trying to make you understand that it would be a big mistake to voluntarily give up such a powerful function. Ultimately, this would also result in the Publisher's failure because it would not move anyone to switch from InDesign or Xpress.

[haakoo 233]

But master pages aren't static at all

And even parts within a grouped layer on a single page can be duplicated, deleted or dragged out the masterpage group
This will also reflect in the masterpage used and on the specified pages

[Petar Petrenko 323]

I think A-team must make an exception for this app and introduce "global" layers just as in ID and Quark. They will be created on all pages automatically but they must not act as master pages. It means, when you put some object on any of these layers it must not be copied on all other "global" layers. Only on that page.

The other type of layer should be called "local".

[musiberti 32]

4 minutes ago, haakoo said:

But master pages aren't static at all

And even parts within a grouped layer on a single page can be duplicated, deleted or dragged out the masterpage group
This will also reflect in the masterpage used and on the specified pages

Masters Pages are not usable for any content that differs on every page - like text, prices, pictures... They are for framework design.

[MikeW 1,458]

Just now, musiberti said:

Global Layers are not only for multi-lingual work. There are thousands of purposes and it would be a huge loss if global layers are not included in the publisher. Please do not hesitate, that I do not wish the Publisher any harm. I'm just trying to make you understand that it would be a big mistake to voluntarily give up such a powerful function. Ultimately, this would also result in the Publisher's failure because it would not move anyone to switch from InDesign or Xpress.

You do not need to "make me understand" anything. I agreed about the global layers thing in another one of the threads you are participating in.

I just didn't like the belittling language you had used. It is arrogant to express yourself as being the be-all, know-all and everyone that doesn't agree with you as an idiot.

I do disagree with the assessment that APub will be a failure because of not having "global layers." There are people on this forum already stating they are moving from ID & Q. I do believe that retention of new customers making the move may be difficult in some cases (same has happened with the other products). And I do believe that if layers as per normal in other layout applications are important, that will prevent yet others from making the move (if they no about it up front, else they will fall into the retention scenario).

[Fixx 427]

15 minutes ago, MikeW said:

I do disagree with the assessment that APub will be a failure because of not having "global layers."

APub would be very usable even without global layers. Proper layers would just make some tasks much easier for some people.

You create two Master Pages, one with the "all pages" content, and one with the "subset of pages" content.
You assign the first to all pages, the second to the subset that need that content.

While master pages do not relate to layers discussion, I would propose children master pages, which inherit the content from master1 (parent master) and have their own added content... using two master pages on one content page would be confusing.

 

[musiberti 32]

@MikeW: 

Unfortunately, most of the users here do not even begin to understand the difference between layers and master pages. Sorry if I'm desperate to make someone clear what "global" layers are. I had already tried to explain it many times. And then someone comes again who says "but with master pages I can do that too".

Anyone who claims to be switching from InDesign to Publisher at this point in time is certainly no one who has to earn his money in graphic design.

[haakoo 233]

I think this is very global to me

[haakoo 233]

2 minutes ago, musiberti said:

someone

You may call me Hans
But if you could explain what you consider global usage of content you may get some help
Du kanst es auch auf deutsch hier eingeben und wir werden es google translate fragen was du auf deutsch geschrieben hast.

[musiberti 32]

I would like to add a suggestion from another thread: Tagged Layers could be a working substitute for Global Layers. With the possibility of tagging any layer with keywords, we could achieve a similar functionality. You need a few more clicks, but it would be a substitute that is even more versatile.

But I stick with it: without Global Layers (or Tagged Layers) the publisher is a failure. For me and for most InDesign/Xpress Users.

[TonyB 1,453]

32 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

I think A-team must make an exception for this app and introduce "global" layers just as in ID and Quark. They will be created on all pages automatically but they must not act as master pages. It means, when you put some object on any of these layers it must not be copied on all other "global" layers. Only on that page.

The other type of layer should be called "local".

Your description is basically what we plan to do so just be a bit patient and give us feedback when we have a working version.

Other long document features will come over time. 

[musiberti 32]

@haakoo: You are working on a master page. You will never place content from your customers on master pages. That not a proper workflow. This will be result in a terrible mess if you a working on a document with a hundred pages. If the customer comes with change requests, the fun is over.

[MikeW 1,458]

10 minutes ago, musiberti said:

...Anyone who claims to be switching from InDesign to Publiser at this point in time is certainly no one who has to earn his money in graphic design.

Nah. That's not true either. It all depends on what one does/creates. I know plenty of businesses and individuals who will be making the switch.

I myself will use APub for certain things where I am given latitude in what I use for the work, which is not a lot of the time. There are other reasons I cannot use APub upon release for say production, single-language books, for instance. It does not fit my work-flow. But layers per ID/Q is not the reason for the most part. There is some work I would not use APub for that do involve normal layers (normal here meaning as per Q/ID) but that is more to keep text above layers of items containing transparency throughout even a simple brochure.

But hey, make sure to read Tony's response. How APub is is not what it will be. Serif needs time, they also need to have kept this promise of release.

[musiberti 32]

8 minutes ago, TonyB said:

Your description is basically what we plan to do so just be a bit patient and give us feedback when we have a working version.

Other long document features will come over time. 

That's the statement I was waiting for and hoping for!

[benjaminduall 10]

9 minutes ago, TonyB said:

Your description is basically what we plan to do so just be a bit patient and give us feedback when we have a working version.

Other long document features will come over time. 

Much appreciated!