Entering text on a Page updates the Master Page!

[Roger H]

On the Mac version I am having a problem with Master pages and document pages. I have set up master pages as for a text book--separate Masters for new chapters and a second master for subsequent pages. Whatever I write on the body page is mirrored onto the master page! Thus every chapter begins with the same chapter number and title and text and every subsequent page is the same. If I add an image, it also appears on the master.  And yes, I am typing on the page  and not on the master (at least the page is highlighted). I understand that whatever is on the Master will appear on the document page but it shouldn't work the other way round! As it stands, a 200 page book will require  200 Master pages!

Also, having created a master, with text boxes located for chapter heading and body text, these are not immediately visible when clicking on the body page; it's necessary to scroll through the layers to highlight where the textbox is which takes time.  If anyone has any ideas, I would welcome some help. I have tried re-installing but it remains the same. 

A pre-flight like In-Design (and PagePlus) would also be very useful. In fact,  I think it's essential for large complex documents like textbooks. Quark doesn't have this so in my opinion it would put AP ahead. Just a thought...

 

 

[walt.farrell]

With the current beta, we are not intended to put Text Frames or Picture Frames that will hold document page data onto a Master Page. If you look at the tutorials, their suggested mode of operation (for now, at least) is to put Guides on the Master Page and then create the Text (or Picture) Frames on the document pages using those Guides.

There are tricks you can play, on each document page, using the Layers panel, to unlink the document page from the Master Page. That would allow you to enter text into the text frame(s) without affecting the Master Page itself. Sorry, but I don't have a pointer right now to one of the forum topics that's discussed that. I think there are a couple of different methods, each with their own potential pitfalls and workarounds. I think the simplest I've seen is to unlock the Master Page layer on the document page, by clicking the lock icon. But I haven't played with any of this very much.

[Roger H]

Thank you Walt. That's very kind of you. I will have a look at that and play around but sadly as it stands, having to draw each text box manually on every page and fill headers each time means this isn't a serious commercial production tool. It is so disappointing as many were hoping that with links to AD and AP it could be a real contender for InDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator.

[Erl_J]

* * *
I'm with you Roger. . .
Master Pages are pretty much useless IF they can't hold empty text and image boxes...
I might want to alter the size of a text or image box when I get to the editing part...
OR
ignore some completely on certain pages... IF they are there in advance...
Drawing them as I need them get tedious very quickly.
* * *
Aside from that, why would anything I do on a text page be allowed to alter the Master Page. . .?
* * *
Here's the problem I have...
I create a Master Page and when I bring that format into a document page, it alters the size of the box...
Images below...

(sigh)

[Wosven]

For now we can use some tricks since Master pages behave like Symbols in Designer.

You need to:

• open the Layers panel,
• unlock the "master_page_name" corresponding to your current page (there's one for each page you applied your master page to),
• select the frames you want to modify
• and open the Symbols panel
• [detach] or un[Sync] before modifying the frames.

It's not easy and natural, and I'll need to do it more that twice to be at ease doing it…

I hope they'll improve it

[mac_heibu]

6 hours ago, Roger H said:

I will have a look at that and play around but sadly as it stands, having to draw each text box manually on every page and fill headers each time means this isn't a serious commercial production tool.

I’d never understand, why people resent such half truth and exaggerations as if they were incontrovertible facts! Of course you can use Publisher as a „serious commercial tool“. All you need is a little bit of versatility! I am laying out and producing magazines, books packages and much more for decades and I confess: I never used master pages in the way, you are describing it. A master page in my(!) work always contains nothing but these elements, which are unmodified present on every layout page. If I am dealing with complex publications, my basic working approach is, to keep the layout clear and structured to avoid unintentional modifications, which may happen, if a modification of a master page item is transferred to an item on layout page, which was modified on layout page too. (This  problem appears for example, if you change the position or size of image, which is linked to a master page and some days later, you change the position of this image on the master:  In this case the position/size of the layout instance is disconnected from the former master page settings and lead to layout inconsistencies.). But: This is the way I am doing my job. Nobody else has to work this way. But to say Publisher isn’t a „serious commercial tool“ because you can’t override master elements is simply ridiculous !And I am not even talking about the beta status of a version-1-application.

One simple way to achieve,what you are missing: 

• Place all elements, which don’t change, on a master (or use more masters, or combine masters for one page).
• Build a page with all these elements you need.
• Duplicate this page as often as needed and use it just like a template.

And please don’t tell us: „But you can’t reposition one element on a master and reposition all modified elements accordingly on the layout pages“. This kind of selective linking between master page elements and their elements isn’t that old. QuarkExpress couldn’t do this for a long, long time: If a master page element was modified on a layout page, it completely lost its connection to the master element. Believe me: Even at that time I build tons and tons of magazines and it worked fine!

Again: I don’t say, such a feature is useless – in contrary! I only say: I can hear these unfair, and in last consequence arrogant judgements any more. Telling the developers, that it would be fine to have this and that additional feature would be much more helpful than qualifying an initial release as „unprofessional“, because it lacks one, two or some features, which you won’t miss. Very often these kind of accuses only reveal one’s own lack of creativity and flexibility.

[Alfred]

6 minutes ago, mac_heibu said:

I’d never understand, why people present such half truth and exaggerations as if they were incontrovertible facts!

Human nature!

 

[Roger H]

Firstly may I say that I didn't say it was 'unprofessional' You did! I said "as it stands it's not a 'serious commercial production tool". (Yet).

You obviously have misunderstood my meaning. My view was based on disappointment that having to draw text boxes on every page and for every heading from guides on a master page (advice I was given) means that it won't become the industry 'standard' software which after the long awaited arrival and much anticipation, many of us hoped it would be.  

For example, I setup a facing master page with a box for the page number. It correctly showed this on the master by numbering pages 1 and 2. When I applied this master to the document pages, they too were labelled 1 and 2. All of them! No page 3 or 4 - just 1 & 2! I really cannot see that having to draw a text box from a guide and number each page individually is in any way helpful nor that it would be welcomed by commercial publishers.  

Yes you can produce professional quality work on it just as you could using any number of applications by adapting to their nuances. My point is that commercially 'time is money' and the longer time spent drawing text boxes and numbering pages by hand means production costs rise. I was not trying to be negative so sorry if it came over that way. Indeed I would like it to be THE publishing platform but it has a way to go. It is only at the beta stage so there is plenty of time for the product to develop.

If users cannot give an opinion without harsh criticism for their thoughts and experiences, then the forum is not helpful and for me, probably best avoided.

 

[Erl_J]

Thanks for all the helpful tips, everyone...
My membership modifier pretty much says it all... newbie.
I've had lots of experience with text building software going back to WordStar and MS Frontpage; thank goodness, we don't do things now like we did back then...
I can appreciate the workflow of anyone who has been involved with a computer productivity tool for a day or two... and I also appreciate their knowledge and skill with their tool of choice.
* * *
I'm just curious about the notion of bringing a new productivity tool to market and presenting the notion that it'll do things exactly the way we've always done it and become accustomed to through years of use of other products...?
"It's new! It's exciting! It's faster! It's more powerful! Just do it the way we've always done it, and you'll be fine."
How would products improve and expand their usefulness if not through innovation and daring to do things otherwise ...?
* * *
Understood that many companies have specific forums and discussion groups for just those sorts of recommendations and suggestions...
Oftentimes, however, their feedback isn't quite the same as these types of open forums which invite people to voice their opinions and get help in return ... in a bit more timely fashion than a programmers' recommendation page... (wink)
* * *
I'm just hoping that everyone can get a fair hearing and some sound advice - at least as much as I have ...
* * *
Again, thanks for the advice and help ... and for displaying such a generous willingness to help in the first place.

I really do appreciate it...
* * *
"Born on Valley Isle,
Home now, North Carolina;
Aloha y'all..."

Until that time. . .

[Wosven]

18 minutes ago, Roger H said:

For example, I setup a facing master page with a box for the page number.

I think you had a problem when you inserted your page numbers, try doing it again with menu Text > Insert > Page number
This will add a variable (can we have more and personalised ones?) that will change automagically on each page.

[Roger H]

Thanks Wosven. Very kind. That's how I did do it! And it didn't change with subsequent pages. That was my point - a master page that wasn't a master just a mirror image. I have deleted Publisher and have now re downloaded it from scratch just in case there is a glitch in my version and will try again. Thanks for advice.  

[Alfred]

2 minutes ago, Roger H said:

I have deleted Publisher and have now re downloaded it from scratch just in case there is a glitch in my version and will try again.

If your download is faulty, it’s unlikely that the installer will run correctly. Instead of wasting time and ‘bandwidth’ by fetching a fresh copy, hold down the Ctrl key while launching the installed app. When the ‘Clear User Data’ dialog appears, release the Ctrl key and press ‘Clear’.

[walt.farrell]

Another user (@Katie,  if I remember correctly) had an interesting approach to solving the Master Page Text Frame issue. I haven't played with it yet, but it sounds simpler than using the Layers panel, etc.

1. Create your Master Page with the Text Frame that you'll want to fill on the document pages.
2. Create 1 document page (page 1) with that Master applied.
3. On that page (page 1) create a new Text Frame exactly overlaying the one supplied by the Master. As it's on top, it will be the visible one based on the layer structure.
4. Duplicate page 1 as many times as you'd like, giving page 2, 3, .... She actually duplicated it 1 extra time, to have a blank copy available for further duplication.

The visible Text Frames on all those pages are not linked to/with the Master Page at all.

[Roger H]

Thank you Walt. Useful info. I will try it out later.

 

[Roger H]

Thanks Alfred. Useful info.

[Alfred]

You're welcome, Roger.

[Erl_J]

@walt...
Thanks for the tip. . . it's a good work around... it'll permit a person to make as many pages as they want without tugging and pulling on a Master Page concept...
* * *
I just tried to give you a thanks... but I'm fresh out of "reactions" ... (sigh)
What a crazy way to run a railroad...
* * *

Until that time. . .

[Roger H]

Update on Master Pages.

Obviously the copy I had installed had a glitch in it which rendered the Master Pages a mirror image of the page I was working on - even page numbers were causing problems and I couldn't get beyond page 2 in the numbering stakes; if I altered the document page number, it also changed the master and every facing page spread in the document showed the same numbers, titles and text. I really couldn't believe that I would need to add every page number and running header manually!

Having followed advice very kindly given by Alfred, Walt.Farrell and Wosven, I have a fresh install of Publisher which functions as intended and a document to show for it! This was my first attempt and I'm sure that in time I will have acquainted myself with many of the other features.

Overall, now that I can go beyond my first experiences, it looks to be a very nice contender. Notice that I have text on pages 10 & 11 which have not copied themselves to the Master. I am so pleased, so thank you all who offered constructive and helpful advice.

 

[musiberti]

The current functionality of master pages will not let anyone switch from InDesign or Xpress to Publisher. Nobody will work with workarounds. Already 25 years ago, QuarkXpress had a better and more versatile concept for master pages than AP currently offers. I really hope this is based on the fact that AP is still a beta version and the missing features will follow.

[Rjosh]

It would very much like to have a functioning page template system, where page and text frames could be edited without them affecting the actual template.

Just tried the newest beta and master page concept is still totally unintuitive. 

You cant edit master page layouts locally without altering master page.

Whats the logic behind this?

 

[Patrick Connor]

@Rjosh

Welcome to the Serif affinity forums

The master page functionality (particularly with respect to Text frames, is still a work in progress. We are working towards something that will be easier to comprehend and suit more people before release.

[jmwellborn]

1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said:

@Rjosh

Welcome to the Serif affinity forums

The master page functionality (particularly with respect to Text frames, is still a work in progress. We are working towards something that will be easier to comprehend and suit more people before release.

We can wait.   Charming cat!!!  Great hat!!!