Place Image and Picture frame suggestion

[Vaaish]

I've been messing around with the beta to see how it holds up and there's a lot to like, but one thing that frustrates me to no end is the Place Image and Picture Frame tools. Initially I used place image to, well, place an image only to find that I couldn't access any of the controls for the image and was limited to just replace doc/edit doc which is useless for most things compared to the controls you get with the Picture Frame tool. 

I Immediately did the same thing with the Image Frame tool and effectively had an identical result, but with the embedded doc as the child of the Image Frame which allows for adding all the expected properties.

I'd like to suggest that the Place Image tool just go ahead and create the image frame wrapper around the selected image. I believe the appearance and function would be identical to what's here now with the added benefits that the structure and properties are uniform for all image elements in the doc.

[walt.farrell]

You don't have to use picture frames; place image will work without it. You'll probably want to drag the tool to scale the image to a reasonable size as you place it.

[Vaaish]

Thanks walt, but that's not really what I'm talking about here at all. The current function of the place image tool that you're referencing creates an image that has limited options compared to an image placed using the image frame. For example:

Place Image only allows you to scale and replace the image or file that's been selected. (I should note that IMAGES selected will still give fill and stroke options though no corner options, but files, like a PDF will not give any options.)

Picture Frame allows you to specify how the image scales within the frame, scale the image, replace the image, add frame fill colors, add frame strokes, and adjust frame corner options.

That creates two objects that look the same but have different properties and no really clear benefit to this distinction. I'm suggesting that instead, the place image tool create an object in a way that is consistant with the object created Picture Frame tool so that either route provides consistant handling of the images. I'm not asking for workarounds or potential extra steps to get the effect, I'm pointing out what to me is an inconsistency that's at odds with how I (the user here) would expect the tools to function. I'd expect that regardless of using Place Image or Picture Frame, I'd have the same options available.

Example.afpub

Edited September 2, 2018 by Vaaish
Added example file

[walt.farrell]

Just to be clear, @Vaaish, are you referring to the Picture Frame tool? Or is there an Image Frame tool I haven't found?

[Vaaish]

@walt.farrell Sorry, yes the picture frame tool. I was going off memory and defaulted to Image Frame. Edited

[wash89akira]

I just messing with AP and notice that when placing a multiple page document (AD, PDF) there is no option to choose which page you want place  in the picture frame.

[Andrew Simpson]

I realize that the Image and Picture frame need to be and should be separate functions, but – and perhaps I'm missing something – when placing a picture onto a document  without having first configured a frame, is there any reason it couldn't just automatically create the frame, set to whatever size you've chosen to place the picture (as is done in Quark and ID)? 

You CAN "covert" a placed picture to a "frame", but then all you get is the frame – you don't achieve the ability to separately manipulate the frame or the picture. (Unless you replace the picture, but that's back to the first process of a) creating the frame, and b) the placing a picture in it.)

Great start by the way. Really appreciate fluid ease of use and intuitive feel throughout.

[Clara Montseny]

On 9/2/2018 at 3:16 AM, wash89akira said:

I just messing with AP and notice that when placing a multiple page document (AD, PDF) there is no option to choose which page you want place  in the picture frame.

I have experienced the same issue here. Are there any workarounds or fixes that anyone know for solving this problem? Thanks!

[Joachim_L]

13 minutes ago, Clara Montseny said:

I have experienced the same issue here. Are there any workarounds or fixes that anyone know for solving this problem? Thanks! 

When you place a PDF with multiple pages, have a look at the context bar. There is a pulldown (plus some other options) where you can select the desired page.

This works only if you place the PDF directly and not when you place the PDF inside a picture frame.

[fde101]

On 9/1/2018 at 8:49 PM, Vaaish said:

scales within the frame, scale the image

If the image is not inside a frame, you can scale it with the move tool, same way you would have scaled the frame.

Obviously, you cannot scale an image within a frame, if it is not within a frame.

 

59 minutes ago, Joachim_L said:

have a look at the context bar. There is a pulldown (plus some other options) where you can select the desired page.

This works only if you place the PDF directly and not when you place the PDF inside a picture frame.

Try selecting the placed PDF itself rather than the frame containing it.  You might be able to do that by double-clicking when the frame is selected, but you could also expand the frame's layer on the Layers panel and select the PDF from there.

 

On 9/3/2018 at 8:39 PM, Andrew Simpson said:

when placing a picture onto a document  without having first configured a frame, is there any reason it couldn't just automatically create the frame

Frames are not always needed and can be annoying to work with at times.  They are most useful when placed on master pages to maintain consistent positioning for images between like pages.  I find cropping with a frame to be needlessly more complex than simply masking one with a shape, so if I am placing an image on a bare page instead of leveraging a master page for consistent positioning, I would much rather do without the frame.

[walt.farrell]

36 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Try selecting the placed PDF itself rather than the frame containing it.  You might be able to do that by double-clicking when the frame is selected, but you could also expand the frame's layer on the Layers panel and select the PDF from there

Those approaches do not work for me, either. PDF's that are Placed into Picture Frames do not provide the ability to choose a page. They simply show the first page.

Edit: Selecting via the Layers panel does work, but I forgot to select the Move Tool, too.

[Move Along People]

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[walt.farrell]

18 minutes ago, haakoo said:

@walt.farrell layerspanel and expand the pictureframe select the sub-embedded file.

Now you can select the page from the toolbar

Did not work for me.

But I tried again, and found the problem was that I had neglected to also select the Move Tool.

Thanks!

[Jeremy Bohn]

On 9/1/2018 at 5:49 PM, Vaaish said:

Thanks walt, but that's not really what I'm talking about here at all. The current function of the place image tool that you're referencing creates an image that has limited options compared to an image placed using the image frame. For example:

Place Image only allows you to scale and replace the image or file that's been selected. (I should note that IMAGES selected will still give fill and stroke options though no corner options, but files, like a PDF will not give any options.)

Picture Frame allows you to specify how the image scales within the frame, scale the image, replace the image, add frame fill colors, add frame strokes, and adjust frame corner options.

That creates two objects that look the same but have different properties and no really clear benefit to this distinction. I'm suggesting that instead, the place image tool create an object in a way that is consistant with the object created Picture Frame tool so that either route provides consistant handling of the images. I'm not asking for workarounds or potential extra steps to get the effect, I'm pointing out what to me is an inconsistency that's at odds with how I (the user here) would expect the tools to function. I'd expect that regardless of using Place Image or Picture Frame, I'd have the same options available.

Example.afpub

I agree with all you said. When I was working on recreating an InDesign file in Publisher, I ran into this several times. When I placed a graphic, I found that one way had some of the options, but the other way had other options. The result is that neither did everything that I needed to do, making me wonder why there are separate tools. In the end, I had to work around the limitations.

[World View]

I tried the picture frame tool and found it awkward. I couldn't remove images and I couldn't scale them (maybe this has been fixed now)

The place image tool does everything you need: you can scale images, then move them around, and then change the size (you'll see in the resource manager how the dpi changes, if you make an image smaller, it doesn't get compressed, the dpi number rises, and if you decide you want it bigger, you can do this without a loss in quality)

I did some rather complex arrangements of several images that needed to fill a page with just a thin line between them, and with the place image tool I had all the flexibility I needed.

 

[MichaelG]

I have also stumbled over this issue when trying to re-create a publication in Publisher that was previously done with InDesign. As previously noted, with ID when an image is placed, it always creates an image frame. These two objects can be manipulated separately, and this can be done in Publisher too.

My publication is a conference guide, and consists of a number of exhibitor profiles. Each profile consists of a logo and some text. The logo goes at the start of the profile and the text follows. Therefore the logo image has to be anchored (in ID) or pinned (in Publisher).

The logos are supplied to me in many different formats; some JPEG, some PNG, some PDF and some EPS and even some AI, and the native size and resolution may vary considerably. Also, some supplied logos come with varying amounts of white space, either above or below the logo, or sometimes all round. With the "image inside a frame" model, I can resize the frame to eliminate the white space very easily.

I may have upwards of 50 logos in a publication, and therefore a streamlined workflow is highly desirable.

With ID, my procedure is:

1. Use File > Place to import the graphic into the layout. The graphic is imported and a frame is automatically created. (With ID, a graphic object cannot exist without a frame).
2. Check the "Auto Fit" option on the toolbar, and then transform the graphic to have a width of 160 points, which is the width of my columns. (The "Auto Fit" option ensures that the image is transformed with the frame).
3. Finally, I make the graphic an anchored object to ensure that the graphic moves with the text, and set the options to be "Above line" and "Centred". I can also set the "Space Before" and "Space After" at the same time if necessary.

With Publisher I think I can achieve the same result, but it seems to take more steps and clicks, and is therefore more cumbersome. So far I've tried this approach:

1. Use File > Place to import the graphic. The graphic is placed in the layout without a picture frame, and I therefore cannot use the frame to "crop out" any white space.
2. I then use Layer > Convert to Picture Frame to place the graphic in a frame. (Note I can't easily create the picture frame first because I don't know the proportions of the graphic until I place it. I guess I could create a picture frame first, then place the graphic inside it, and then use the "Size frame to content" button on the context toolbar, but that's even more steps).
3. Now I can use the transform panel to make the picture frame 160 points wide. I can now adjust the frame height to crop out any white space.
4. Then I use the pinning panel to anchor the graphic to the text.
5. Finally I have to open the Text Wrap panel and set the wrapping attributes to "Jump".

This is quite a quite more effort to achieve the same result, and with a large number of graphics to place and limited time, it can be frustrating. Now it may be I am missing a trick with Publisher and there is a more efficient technique, but if there is I haven't found it yet. (We really need that workbook).

So here's something to consider. When the File > Place dialog is presented, how about a check box at the bottom that says "Create Picture Frame". Make this setting persistent so that next time an image is placed, it remembers the setting from last time. Perhaps there could be a second check box to set the text wrapping options at the same time. Finally, something in Preferences that allows me to "Always create a picture frame when placing graphics" might also be useful. I believe that something like this would streamline the process, especially when placing multiple images with a single operation.

Such an arrangement would satisfy those like me who always want their graphics in a frame, and also those who don't.

With Kind Regards,
Mike G.

 

[Move Along People]

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[fde101]

On 9/8/2019 at 7:31 AM, MichaelG said:

Layer > Convert to Picture Frame

That option converts the selected object to a frame, it doesn't wrap it in a frame - in other words, I would expect this to take the selected image and turn the image itself into a picture frame?

 

On 9/8/2019 at 7:31 AM, MichaelG said:

•  Then I use the pinning panel to anchor the graphic to the text.
•  Finally I have to open the Text Wrap panel and set the wrapping attributes to "Jump".

If the logo is supposed to be inline with the text, consider trying the inline option instead of float.  You should also find an "Inline in Text" button in the toolbar (you can customize the toolbar to add this if not already there) to facilitate doing this more efficiently without needing to use the pinning panel.

 

On 9/8/2019 at 7:31 AM, MichaelG said:

I can now adjust the frame height to crop out any white space.

Consider trying the vector crop tool instead - that may eliminate the need for a frame and provide similar functionality with less effort.