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David Willner

Right to Left Support for Hebrew and Arabic

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Why Affinity still does not offer RTL support (for Hebrew, Persian, Arabic etc.) even after many years. However, if this prepares RTL support, it's sure to make a lot of money. Because I'm sure there are thousands of designers who need RTL typography. The question is: Is Affinity incredibly rich, doesn't it need money Or is RTL support not an important part of these professional (!) programs? A place where the mind stops.

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5 minutes ago, coral said:

Why Affinity still does not offer RTL support (for Hebrew, Persian, Arabic etc.) even after many years. However, if this prepares RTL support, it's sure to make a lot of money. Because I'm sure there are thousands of designers who need RTL typography. The question is: Is Affinity incredibly rich, doesn't it need money Or is RTL support not an important part of these professional (!) programs? A place where the mind stops.

First page of this topic...

The delay has nothing to do with "importance" nor unwanted revenue.

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Just now, MikeW said:

First page of this topic...

The delay has nothing to do with "importance" nor unwanted revenue.

I was just looking up the very same post just to see you beat me to the minute¬†ūüôā
Nothing more to add.

d.


Affinity Designer 1.9.2 (beta 1.9.2.1005)   |   Affinity Photo 1.9.2 (beta 1.9.2.1005)   |   Affinity Publisher 1.9.2 (beta 1.9.2.1024)
Affinity Designer for iPad 1.8.4   |   Affinity Photo for iPad 1.8.4

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28 minutes ago, Amirqa said:

I just want to confirm, Arabic will never be supported? or there's a road map but it will take long?

The answer is in the post just above yours. It is a big job, and will take a long time. They are working on other things first. Serif probably will not say anything more than that at this time.

 


-- Walt

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This is a colossal f***up on their part.

The assumption that typsetters will never need to set a type in a direction other than L-R is bizarre. It means that, as soon as someone wants to make a Hagaddah or wants to quote Rumi in a book, they have to abandon the entire program back to InDesign.

It means that, if you ever MIGHT use a r-l or top-bottom language, it's a mistake to use Affinity Publisher because of Adobe's toxic business model: if you stop paying them, you'll never again be able to make a text that includes even one word in r-l.

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After the rude aggression in the last post above (which for some reason avoids to point out what "this" or who "their" is supposed to be) and after a recent post in the other long thread, which stated that RTL would be "easy to implement", I am wondering meanwhile:

What prevents a software company in the RTL world from developing software for the complaining people but let them repeatedly demand to get it developed in the LTR world?


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 27" // Affinity preferred in Separated Mode + Merged Windows

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It's about clients! Most of my client needs they campaign in different languages, including RTL. In 2016 I decided to stop my Adobe subscription and migrated to Affinity! And believe me, it was hard at that time! But now, after four years, I still have to buy Adobe each time I have clients with a multi-language project! I appreciate their work, and I'm still supporting them, but it's not fair to us! They said this is a hard task, the same as a lot of other things, but they need to start! So why not put some effort here for text directions! 

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3 hours ago, ZaraJoon said:

It's about clients! Most of my client needs they campaign in different languages, including RTL. In 2016 I decided to stop my Adobe subscription and migrated to Affinity! And believe me, it was hard at that time! But now, after four years, I still have to buy Adobe each time I have clients with a multi-language project! I appreciate their work, and I'm still supporting them, but it's not fair to us! They said this is a hard task, the same as a lot of other things, but they need to start! So why not put some effort here for text directions! 

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9 hours ago, thomaso said:

What prevents a software company in the RTL world from developing software for the complaining people but let them repeatedly demand to get it developed in the LTR world?

Unless we seal all borders and stop exchanging goods and ideas between different countries, there will always be odd people dealing with languages different from the one of their native village. Hence the need for tools with which one can communicate in several different languages (and directions).

Paolo

 

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On 4/8/2020 at 6:35 PM, thomaso said:

After the rude aggression in the last post above (which for some reason avoids to point out what "this" or who "their" is supposed to be) and after a recent post in the other long thread, which stated that RTL would be "easy to implement", I am wondering meanwhile:

What prevents a software company in the RTL world from developing software for the complaining people but let them repeatedly demand to get it developed in the LTR world?

I don't know what was the point of your post... to trigger people more?

But I would leave you with this link: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/HarfBuzz/

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On 4/8/2020 at 4:05 PM, thomaso said:

What prevents a software company in the RTL world from developing software for the complaining people but let them repeatedly demand to get it developed in the LTR world?

As a "RTL world" customer, I chose Affinity over a myriad of available free/commercial tools and I never regret that because I like their products and the people behind them, I must say that requesting a feature from the developers of the product is something very normal to the individuals who think that people live in the same world.

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2 years later. I installed a trial version of Affinity publisher, only to find out it's impossible to place Hebrew text because it gets completely mixed up. So I'd better not buy it, because I will be publishing partly in the Hebrew language? Or has there been any prograss?

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On 4/29/2020 at 7:19 AM, MEB said:

Hi Heartburn,
Welcome to Affinity Forums :)
There's still no support for RTL languages, sorry.

:(

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Did anyone find a workaround?

All these comments are about "why oh why you don't support RTL" but one must realise it's not their priority and that's a done deal.

Don't convince yourself it might happen soon cause it will not.

So Let's talk about a fix for this thing? Any third party software for Mac to enable writing backwards?

Thank you!

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Well a very imperfect work around is to create text frames and then flip them. Typing will then be Right-to-Left. However the characters will also be reversed.  If you had a font with flipped glyphs then that might help.

Strictly speaking rotating the text frame 90 degrees in either direction will give top to bottom and bottom to top rendering as well. Although you'd need fonts to work successfully with such an arrangement.

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I use pixelmator text frames on mac and command+c, command+v it on affinity and voila. Texts wont be vector though. So ull need a big pixelmator file. Im not sure if i can do the same thing between pages+affinity. Im aware its a lousy way of doing it but gets the job done. For ipad, i dont have any convenient workarounds. I use pages to write, than export to pdf, than open in affinity, and even that it still gives some issues. 

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Hello everybody!

I’m happy to announce the release of our Right-to-Left writing solution for Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher. The app could help fix RTL writing in other software which has a similar issue as Affinity’s apps do.

Get RTL Fixer now while it’s on sale:

https://www.artwayz.com/en/buy-rtl-fixer

Watch our app in action:

 

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I'm going to add my 2 pence... I know that RTL support will be a long time coming , if it comes at all - there may be other things of higher priority for Affinity. OK. So I need a workaround, at least for smaller amounts of Persian text. Note: I would not bother with longer Persian texts using Affinity. It's the wrong tool for the job.

I used version 7 of LibreOffice to type up this Hafez poem. I've specifically added some diacritics to see what the result would be. I'm using the XB Kayhan font which has good Persian support. I then exported the file as a PDF.

Testing three scenarios in AP, the attached output from AP as a PDF shows the results are interesting: Placed PDFs are useless; PDF imported to LibreOffice Draw and exported to EPS shows a very blurred image; PDF converted to EPS (online using freeconvert.com) shows the correct result. 

While the kashida handling in LibreOffice is not perfect, it is acceptable for a free app. I have seen far worse kashidas in publication. There are other options for RTL text: Mellel, Nisus, Zarnegar, and Word. There are probably others. But for now, if you want a DTP app for RTL you really only have InDesign, or QuarkXpress + a $495 dollar extension. I suppose it depends on how much RTL text you are handling.

In the meantime, placed EPS seems best for sharp output (as expected). JPGs or other image formats are suitable for decorative text. E.g. a couple of words typed in LibreOffice Draw, converted to curves, pasted correctly into AD, and then can be manipulated at will.

J.

P.S. When printing from LibreOffice on a Mac, one can output PS files directly using the print dialogue box (Save as postscript), so cut out the conversion from PDF to PS. This also works very well.

rtl test file 01.pdf

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