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I was a little confused with the Layers palette at first. This is because it didn't actually have any layers. Each object I created in my document was listed in the Layers palette instead and there were no layers listed. I could create a new layer, but it wasn't clear that I could move my existing objects onto the new layer because when I drag an object onto the layer, it highlights a line either below or above the layer and not on top of it. Eventually I figured out that dropping the object "below" the layer was actually moving it onto the layer.

I think a new document should have a default starting layer.

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The most confusing thing for me is the fact that each single page has it's own layers. That's not practicable. I started a thread about the layer concept here:

As a layout artist you see your project as a whole. Not as a collection of single pages. For the latter one better uses a illustration app like AD.
I consider it's a big mistake adopting the level concept of AD and AP for AP.  Most layouters use layers primarily for alternative designs, which can then be faded in and out with a single mouse click. Exactly this is not possible with AP and its current layers concept.
I know, it is difficult to change, because AP should be compatible with AD. But maybe you could bypass the problem by offering the option to mark selected layers as cross-project. This could be a publisher-only function.

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Wow, musiberti. I had no idea because I only fiddled around with a one page document.

One of my main uses for layers at work is  to turn a template on and off. For instance, the template turned on for the customer to see a proof, but it's not needed when printed so I turn it off. I know you can toggle the items and Printable, but using a layer is much quicker.

Also, often in a new job if I am copying the layout of something, I will scan it in and stick it into my layout on a separate layer so I can try to line things up as close as possible to the original.

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On 9/3/2018 at 1:40 PM, musiberti said:

The most confusing thing for me is the fact that each single page has it's own layers. That's not practicable. I started a thread about the layer concept here:

As a layout artist you see your project as a whole. Not as a collection of single pages. For the latter one better uses a illustration app like AD.
I consider it's a big mistake adopting the level concept of AD and AP for AP.  Most layouters use layers primarily for alternative designs, which can then be faded in and out with a single mouse click. Exactly this is not possible with AP and its current layers concept.
I know, it is difficult to change, because AP should be compatible with AD. But maybe you could bypass the problem by offering the option to mark selected layers as cross-project. This could be a publisher-only function.

Well, InDesign uses layers too for the objects and it also uses an own layer set for each page, if I remember right.
So I dont see the problem with that

rather in my opinion it is good to give each page own layer, since when I have a book with a lot of pages, putting everything in one layer structure could be quite confusing the mopre pages are in the layout

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6 minutes ago, Pixelkobold said:

Well, InDesign uses layers too for the objects and it also uses an own layer set for each page, if I remember right.
So I dont see the problem with that

You remember incorrectly. Layers are at the document level, not per page.

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13 minutes ago, Jeremy Bohn said:

You remember incorrectly. Layers are at the document level, not per page.

hmm okay,
perhaps I might got something wrong with that.

But why is it then that page 1-2 of my latest project in InDesign has a wholly different layer set than pages 3-4 (always double pages)?
and pages 5-6 have another layer set and so on and so forth?

I have screenshots attached of the two pages.
Its in german language but "Ebenen" are layers in german language

Dont get me wrong, I dont want speak against you, just want to understand where I am thinking wrong with InDesign layers.

1.PNG

2.PNG

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You're looking at the items on each layer, not the layers themselves. It looks like "Ebene 1" is the actual layer in your file.  Since you have different items on different pages, those items will be different but the layers themselves remain the same across all pages.

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@Pixelkobold: The Layers in ID show the objects of the site too. But they are working across the whole document. My englisch is too bad to explain the details. I am working for 18 years with ID. Itˋs Layer Concept is much more better than Publisher´s layers.

 

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9 minutes ago, musiberti said:

...I am working for 28 years with ID. 

Really? August of 1999 is when it was released. 

But I get the point. 


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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12 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Really? August of 1999 is when it was released. 

But I get the point. 

I already corrected this. Before InDesign, I used QuarkXPress. The developers at Adobe and Quark know exactly why their customers want global layers. It is not always good to be different.

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But not before I quoted ;)

1 minute ago, musiberti said:

...It is not always good to be different.

Absolutely. There are more than a couple functions I consider "novel" in how they are presently implemented. "Novel" here simply meaning no other applications do these things or handle them differently. They do them differently for good reason.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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InDesign isn't any less confusing, it just confuses in a different way. It's "global" in what it tracks but then doesn't present a UI that is consistent with a global layer list.

By default, if you set up a new document and begin adding dozens of objects to the document (regardless of which page), and then go back later you will see the entire document has 1 layer. In effect, instead of giving each new object you place onto or drag across the canvas its own layer ID, it makes them all sub-layers of the default — Layer 1. You have to explicily go into the Layers panel and create a new layer and then with that active the next object you add (and the next) goes into that layer. But then the same thing continues to happen. If you don't add new layers, every page will list Page "X, 2 Layers" (in this example), regardless of what is placed on any given page.

It you explicitly set up 1 layer at the start of each new page, and then jump around, the layers panel will show you only the contents of the active page's layers, but also show all the other layers as empty even when they're not (which is a little weird / not a good UI practice IMO). In terms of visual layer management, at the panel level I prefer Affinity's method because it's more intuitive in the sense that it doesn't show me all the other layers that are not applicable to the active page.

The only thing that might be nice is a search field, but that requires you to name each layer in a memorable way as you go along. But yeah. I don't think InDesign's layer implementation is anything special. Kind of reminds me of Illustrator's layers which I find to be overly complicated and counterintuitive, depending on what you're trying to do. Spoiled by years of using Photoshop's layers I guess.

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15 hours ago, Cineman said:

InDesign isn't any less confusing, it just confuses in a different way. It's "global" in what it tracks but then doesn't present a UI that is consistent with a global layer list.

Sorry, only someone who has never worked properly with InDesign can claim this. Too bad that I have to defend InDesign here. All I really want is for the Publisher to get basic functionality, without which professional work under time pressure is unfortunately not possible.

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@Cineman an all others, who don't know what gobal layers are: Please look at this thread. There is a good example (Video). It's such an easy thing, but you can't actually do this in Affinity. If you need alternative Content (language versioning etc.) you have to set up an new document in Publisher. In InDesign you can deactivate the layer with the text und make a new layer for another language. Just two Mouseclicks - FOR EVERY SITE OF THE WHOLE DOCUMENT!

If you try to do this in the same Publisher document  you have to do this for every site, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again ......

Impossible for documents with a large amount of sites, catalogs etc.

 

 

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17 hours ago, musiberti said:

@Pixelkobold: The Layers in ID show the objects of the site too. But they are working across the whole document. My englisch is too bad to explain the details. I am working for 18 years with ID. Itˋs Layer Concept is much more better than Publisher´s layers.

 

okay thanks
then I misunderstood how ID handles the layers.
Thanks for your adive

(oh und du hättest mir das in Deutsch erklären können, meine Muttersprache) :D

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