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39 minutes ago, jackamus said:

All that has changed is that graphic designers have had to re-learn their trade.

Well, they could always go back to the drawing board ... literally.


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On 8/29/2018 at 9:42 AM, jackamus said:

About a week after I got rid of my PC and bought a Mac mini, Serif published Affinity! This was an amazing coincidence!. After using it for a while I realised that it fell short of DrawPlus 8 in its features. It was then that I started to ask if the DP features could be included in Affinity. The rest is history as they say and I am still waiting for among others:

Fitting text to a path, Cutting objects with a cutting tool, Blending colours on a path and the one I most need - applying dimensions to a drawing (i.e.engineering or architectural drawing). There was also talk of adding a perspective drawing feature similar to 'Illustrator'.

However I'm now thinking of getting an PC and reinstalling DrawPlus 8. I do have a partition on my Mac with Windows installed and also DrawPlus8 but it is too cumbersome to swap between OSs. I think would be better off with a dedicated PC.

 

 

You can use a few apps like Crossover and Parallels that give you access to Windows apps while still in OS X, they even do a linux version.


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There is a text to a path feature - I used it today. Of course, it works rather differently to what we Deepers are used to, but it is there.

I'm rather coming to the conclusion that the only way to work is forget everyting you knew and work through all the Designer training videos, learn a new language and hope it proves worth the effort.

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3 minutes ago, Paul Martin said:

AD 1.7 is for Mac only?

No, there is also the Windows version, but they are only Beta.

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3 hours ago, R C-R said:

Well, they could always go back to the drawing board ... literally.

That's what should have happened to the programmers - they could have learnt a new language! Ideally graphic designers could have learn't programming. Somewhere the two needed to get together.


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Why do they need to be discussed in different ways to change their appearance? That's like referring to a different way to treat circles from squares or triangles etc. If I draw a shape it may or may not have a line round it depending on what I want.


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AD version 1.6.0

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3 hours ago, firstdefence said:

You can use a few apps like Crossover and Parallels that give you access to Windows apps while still in OS X, they even do a linux version.

Already got Patallels installed so I can use DP8.


Mac OS X El Capitan Version 10.11.6

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3 hours ago, Paul Martin said:

There is a text to a path feature - I used it today. Of course, it works rather differently to what we Deepers are used to, but it is there.

I'm rather coming to the conclusion that the only way to work is forget everyting you knew and work through all the Designer training videos, learn a new language and hope it proves worth the effort.

That's how it has finished up! The programmers won and the artists and designers lost!

Yes I know I'm showing my age (78) but wisdom comes with age!


Mac OS X El Capitan Version 10.11.6

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4 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Why do they need to be discussed in different ways to change their appearance? That's like referring to a different way to treat circles from squares or triangles etc. If I draw a shape it may or may not have a line round it depending on what I want.

Yes, your shape may have a stroke. And strokes are created in a specific way using the Context Menu or the Stroke Panel or the Color Panel.

It could also have a line around it, drawn using the Pen Tool or the Pencil Tool, which will behave differently since that line will comprise at least one separate object.

If someone says they have a square with a line around it you may assume they mean a stroke and that you know how it was created, but you may be wrong unless they provide more details.


-- Walt

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4 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Yes, your shape may have a stroke. And strokes are created in a specific way using the Context Menu or the Stroke Panel or the Color Panel.

It could also have a line around it, drawn using the Pen Tool or the Pencil Tool, which will behave differently since that line will comprise at least one separate object.

If someone says they have a square with a line around it you may assume they mean a stroke and that you know how it was created, but you may be wrong unless they provide more details.

Can you give me an example?


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AD version 1.6.0

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31 minutes ago, jackamus said:

That's what should have happened to the programmers - they could have learnt a new language! Ideally graphic designers could have learn't programming. Somewhere the two needed to get together.

Well most of us programmers learned a bunch of languages over time, but not everything survived on the market or is still in demand today. Times do change, as do the overall IT trends, be it programming or designing etc. - Further a bunch of designers nowadays learnt the one or other thing to program too, even they have another background. The same applies to some programmers which do more domain specific specialized things (maybe like graphics programming). You always need to have some fair knowledge in the domain you are working for, otherwise you can't evolve there.

Programmers and designers often work hand in hand for project specific tasks, that's nothing new and was always like this, at least here in bigger monetary budget companies or for newer fashioned rebel startups etc.


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35 minutes ago, jackamus said:

That's how it has finished up! The programmers won and the artists and designers lost!

LOL, no way, programmers tend to reinvent the wheel, or let's say to catch up on old long time known things and ideas, but then comes marketing and giving those old childs a new name and tries to sell it as the best new thing since sliced bread (or something like that).

Many of today's approaches are in fact more old school, but instead then nicely packed in new clothes and often with sounding trendy terms. So no need to worry, you have to have a mild smile for it and stay above those things.


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I offered Matt, years ago, a suggestion on how to include a perspective drawing feature based on my own experience as an old fashioned technical illustrator. I am familiar with the Adobe 'Illustrator' and thought it was not very intuitive. Maybe this feature is still a work in progress - I don't know.

In the mean time I suggested having a box for inputting the degree of an ellipse i.e. a 1 degree ellipse would little more that a straight line and a 99 degree would be almost a circle. This way it is easy to use different size ellipse but all having the same proportion. This is important when doing technical illustration.


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4 hours ago, jackamus said:

I offered Matt, years ago, a suggestion on how to include a perspective drawing feature based on my own experience as an old fashioned technical illustrator. I am familiar with the Adobe 'Illustrator' and thought it was not very intuitive. Maybe this feature is still a work in progress - I don't know.

In the mean time I suggested having a box for inputting the degree of an ellipse i.e. a 1 degree ellipse would little more that a straight line and a 99 degree would be almost a circle. This way it is easy to use different size ellipse but all having the same proportion. This is important when doing technical illustration.

Wouldn't the Pie Shape Tool do? Just make the hole radius 100% and you have an adjustable arc that you can adjust in degrees.
Screen-Shot-2019-01-04-at-08-05-28.png

Pie Shape Tool showing a 1º arc.
Screen-Shot-2019-01-04-at-08-08-59.png


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13 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Sorry I don't follow what you are trying to illustrate.

Attached is a file explaining what I meant.

 

Ellipse proportions.afdesign

didn't click with it being ratio's, and I get the perspective thing now. I thought you were talking about degrees of arc sorry.


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48 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Attached is a file explaining what I meant.

I am not sure what degrees has to do with it, but if you want to create an ellipse with a precise major to minor axis aspect ratio, you can do that easily in the Transform panel using expressions, for example by entering w*0.174 for the h value to get the 1:0.174 aspect ratio in your 10° ellipse. You don't need those lines to do that.


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When you are doing a technical illustration you may want to alter the proportion of an ellipse to fit the perspective. It is  easier, as you progress the illustration, to simply increase or decrease the ellipse proportion in degrees, rather than a difficult to visualize minor axis change. This makes it easier to control the illusion of perspective particularly in an exploded view.

Since an ellipse is a circle viewed at an angle it would seem sensible to show that angle as figure in degrees in the Transformation panel.


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5 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Since an ellipse is a circle viewed at an angle it would seem sensible to show that angle as figure in degrees in the Transformation panel.

Ellipse or circle, it is a vector object on a two dimensional plane. The rotational angle shown in the Transform panel refers to the angular rotation on that plane, not anything viewed in a third dimension.


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I realize that but the degree can be calculated from the major and minor axis which is shown in the transform panel. This is just a trig function between the two axes. Also if a degree is entered into the degree box it D can calculate. I would also keep it simple by applying the angle to horizontal ellipses only  There's no need to do the same for vertical ellipses as they can be rotated.


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22 hours ago, jackamus said:

I realize that but the degree can be calculated from the major and minor axis which is shown in the transform panel. This is just a trig function between the two axes. Also if a degree is entered into the degree box it D can calculate. I would also keep it simple by applying the angle to horizontal ellipses only  There's no need to do the same for vertical ellipses as they can be rotated.

OK, I see what you mean about degrees now. Since it is a trig function, you could use an expression in the Transform panel like sin(10)*w in the H field for the 10° ellipse. This is a 'universal' method that could be applied to any shape as long as its bounding box can be considered to have the equivalent of a major & a minor axis for the purpose of this kind of transformation. It also should work regardless of the rotational R value.

Adding a "D" field to the Transform panel seems like a needless complication that probably would require yet another change to the native file format to store the "D" field info -- otherwise it could not be preserved when the file is saved like for the other six Transform fields, & many users probably would find that confusing or annoying.


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Thanks for understanding what I was getting at.

I do see the knock-on effect having to add the Deg box to the Transform Tab and its application to all other shapes and objects.

I will just have to produce my own table showing degrees based on major and minor axes.

This also creates another interesting aspect from a perspective point of view. As an ellipse goes from a straight line at eye level down to a fatter ellipse at ground level, the major axis will be smaller due to perspective distance. This will produce another vertical angle between the eye level ellipse and the ground level ellipse. I would like to investigate this angular relationship to see if there is calculable.


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8 minutes ago, jackamus said:

I will just have to produce my own table showing degrees based on major and minor axes.

As @R C-R has indicated, you can use an expression in the Transform panel. There is no need to produce a table.


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