Photo Managment?

[Toothfood]

Im struggling managing photos on my Mac and, before I purchase a third party manager, wonder if AP will be releasing anything to help better manage photos?

[Scapa]

They are developing a tool for that (a DAM, Digital Asset Management), though it is still unknown how feature rich this will be. Also the timeframe for a release is unknown, though it is known that affinity publisher will come first, so that the core range photo, designer and publisher will be completed first. This makes absolutely sense though many people are waiting for a DAM too, as there aren't that many good alternatives out there. Long story short: You are not the only one having a hard time to decide if it is worth it to spend money on something else or save the money for the Affinity DAM as there is no given timeframe for that. 

[carl123]

Without any timeframes given by Serif as regards an Affinity DAM I would consider it to be years away rather than months.

So if you are "struggling managing photos" now, I would suggest you go ahead and purchase a third party manager in the meantime.

[Scapa]

Not sure about that. They may have learned from the past that announcing something too early bites themself in regards of meeting timeframes. My bets are on 2019, though that depends on how long publisher will stay in beta/take until it's ready which is the same for the 1.7 versions of Designer and Photo. 

[GDPR-365024]

And unfortunately as we wait (for everything!) Adobe moves on ...

My wife (who works as an instructional designer) emailed me this link Sensei 

[Scapa]

Not only Adobe but also Skylum which announced to have their DAM ready this year. As they said to have it ready last year. But still from what I am hearing it seems that they took a huge step forward to the actual release. 

Regarding sensei. I don't want to have my pictures in a cloud and I don't want to have any AI being able to work through my stuff. Privacy is what matters. Unfortunately that's something that many people don't rely on...

[GDPR-365024]

19 hours ago, Scapa said:

Regarding sensei. I don't want to have my pictures in a cloud and I don't want to have any AI being able to work through my stuff ...

For sure! However the reason I mentioned my wife works as an instructional designer is because she works in a team (for the Queensland government). There's several teams (or more) interlinked who work in different areas of a building as well as in buildings in various locations around the city and state.

They have to use the cloud. They also use stock images and because money is everything in business (including government) efficient use of time and resources.

While we're waiting for a Serif DAM things are ramping up elsewhere for pro creatives who work in teams/organisations etc.

 

   

[Scapa]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:16 PM, PedroOfOz said:

While we're waiting for a Serif DAM things are ramping up elsewhere for pro creatives who work in teams/organisations etc.

True. Serif knows that too but i prefer them to stay a small team and take their time. "Unfortunately" Publisher got the priority though I am also waiting for that for Book design/layout. 

[sgbotsford]

Skylum is in trouble over it's vapourware DAM.  Supposedly in beta, but although I was 'on the list' to beta test it, I was never contacted, and I can't find anyone on their forums who will admit to beta testing.  Further they won't release screen shots, feature lists etc.

 

This is what I want a DAM to do: 

 

Introduction

Currently using Apple Aperture. Need a replacement.

I've been thinking a lot about photo management.

I'm starting to avoid the word 'DAM' as it increasingly refers to industrial sized software costing tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. So let's look at what I mean by a photo manager:

Browser Pix initially come in in bunches, and as such they go somewhere in some folder structure on your computer. Many people will use some combination of Year/Month/ and string to describe event. Often remember that the shot took place on your trip to Italy, or that it was the Smith & Brown wedding is sufficient.

Tagger But what do you do when you are looking for the closeup of a butterfly. It was an incidental pic on some holiday, but which one. Now metadata comes into play. If all your holiday shots are tagged 'Holiday' and your program can search existing metadata, your problem is solved. Search for holiday and focal distance less than 5 feet. You still may have a bunch to wade through. If, in addition to some general keywords for the batch you add a few per image you have a big win. E.g. "Butterfly"

Tagging is hard. You want to tag it with multiple things. E.g:

• Describe the scene.
• Identify the location. GPS is fine, but "Lock Ness, Scotland" or Kensington market, Toronto, Ontario, Canada is easier to visualize.
• ID the people in the scene. Classify them more generally. (Woman with child; Young boy...)
• Describe the technical aspects -- close up, high/low key, lighting
• One or more classes of description about the scene -- weather, mood.
• Usage: Have you sold exclusive rights for this image? Exclusive for 18 months for a calendar?

These are facets. I prefer to go through a set of images several times, concentrating on one of these at a time. Sometimes a facet is irrelevant. Weather makes no sense for an interior shot. If you do facets, you need a way to search for images that don't have an entry for facet X. You also need a way to mark a facet as irrelevant.

Crudely you can implement these with constructs like WEA:Cloudy but then you still have to be able to search for images that don't have WEA:* as a keyword. And you have to decide on what to do where it's not relevant. WEA:N/A

Having some kind of support for actual facets would be a big win.

Searcher No point in tagging if you can't search the data. Two programs I trialed, Mylio and Photoshop Supreme, had no provision to search exif data -- where the stuff like time of day, and focal length, and camera model is kept. One program allows you to search for only one tag at a time. I can search for Holiday. Or I can search for butterfly. But I can't search for shots that have both "Holiday" and "butterfly" Ideally you want full boolean search support with 'and,' 'or', & 'not', parentheses for grouping, and wild cards for partial matches.

Version tracker A photograph for a professional may have a long history. You often have a shot, then export it in some altered form (cropped, resized, sharpened, colour adjusted, watermarked) Nice to be able to find the original 5 years from now. One recommended practice I ran into had the following:

• Master image was Raw.
• Archive version was digital negative.
• Processing version was 16 bit tiff or PSD
• Delivered version was tiff or jpeg.

This requires a minimum of 4 versions. Add to that:

• Watermarked versions.
• Reduced resolution versions for web pages.
• Colour matched versions for specific printing environments.
• Cropped versions for mobile web pages.

So that's the base case. Implementations differ, and they refine this somewhat.

Online resources

Impulse Adventure (site: https://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/) Unfortunately out of date. But still several good articles.

• Catalogs and Multiple versions. https://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/flow-catalog-versions.html

• Important Features of Catalog Software. https://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/flow-catalog-features.html

Controlled Vocabulary (site: https://www.controlledvocabulary.com/ )

• Using Image Databases to Organize Image Collections http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/imagedatabases/

Also has a good forum/mailing list.

---

Requirements:

The four functions above describe what it should do. Here are some more details about how it should do it.

Server requirments

I can see implementing this in one of two ways: Either as a stand alone program or as a local web server. The latter has the advantage that it would scale for family or small photo business.

Cloud services are slow when you are talking about 10-12 Mbyte files. My network connect takes several seconds per MByte. Cloud services for metadata have to be well optimized -- you really don't want to issue 3000 keyword change requests individually when you change the spelling of a keyword. So:

• Not cloud based.
• Runs on Mac or on local apache web server.

Keyword handling

• Fast keywording. Aperture allows drag and drop from a list, multiple sets of hotkeys for words used frequently, copy paste of keywords from one photo to another, and keywords organized in folders. It also allows search for a keyword, and a list matching what you typed so far appears. Other programs that have good keywording include IMatch and Photomechanic. One of the key aspects of this is to have multiple ways to do things. I like aperture's multiple preset buttons -- combine with facets.

  A history of keywords might help: A pane with the last N keywords in it. Chances are that the next word I use will be one of the last 20 I use about 80% of the time.

• Full access to standard metadata: EXIF, ITPC, subject to limits of the file format.

• Controlled vocabulary. I want an extra step to add a new keyword to my list of keywords. This helps with the the Sommer Vacashun problem.
• Hierarchial vocabulary. E.g. Separate entries for Birds -> raptors -> falcon and Planes -> fighters -> falcon. Parents are stored with keywords. Moving a keyword in the master list, or changing spelling, corrects all usage in photos. This can be done as a background task.
• Parent items are automatically entered as keywords. (With the correct database linkage, this comes free as a side effect of the point above.
• Synonyms -- I can define "Picea glauca" as a synonmym for "White Spruce" entering one, enters the other.
• Facets: For a set of pictures I want to be able to define a set of facets or categories for collections or folders. Facets would be things like: Weather; Who; Where; Ecosystem; Season; Lighting Not all collections would have all facets, but a collection having a facet would nag me to put it in. A facet would have a negation for not applicable (Weather isn't applicable inside a house; Who isn't applicable in a landscape shot.) Facets allow me to go through a collection in multiple passes and get the missing keywords.

Searching

• Complex searches: Find all shots between 2012 and 2015 shot in December or January, shot with my Nikon D70, with keyword "snow" rating of 3 or better shot after 3pm in the day. (Yes, I do use searches like that)
• Saved Searches. These are the equivalent of smart albums in Aperture. As new pix meet the standards they would be shown.

Version Tracking

• Version tracking If a lower resolution, cropped, photoshopped, composited or a black and white image is produced from a master, the system should show that it's a derived image, and allow access to the master. A master should be able to list derived images. Derived images are not linear but form a multi-branched tree.
• If my camera produces JPEG and Raw versions, I want the JPEG to be shown as being derived from the Raw version.
• Metadata applied to a master should propagate down to derived images.
• Some form of exception handling for this: e.g. -keyword to prevent a people identifier being applied to an image where that person was cropped out.
• Ability to track through external editing programs. E.g. If I edit a program in photoshop, it will mark the PSD file as being derived, restore as much of the metadata as the PSD format allows. If Photoshop is used to create a jpeg image, that too is tracked.

Data robustness

• All metadata is indexed.
• Metadata is also written to sidecar files.
• Where possible metadata is written to the image file itself. (optional -- can stress automated backup systems)
• Through file system watching, name changes and directory reorganization are caught. Relevant sidecars are also renamed, and the database updated with new file location/name. Sidecar contents include the name of their master file.
• Should be possible to rebuild entire database from images + sidecars. Should be able to restore all file metadata from database. This requires a lot of under-the-hood time stamps to determine which has priority.
• All database actions should be logged and journaled, so they are reversible.
• Reasonable speed with catalogs of more than 100,000 images.
• Support for previews of all common image formats and most raw formats.
• Previews and thumbnails are treated as versions of the master. They inherit metadata.

Nice to have:

• Simple non-destructive editing -- crop, brightness, contrast.
• Rating system
• Smart albums
• Drag and drop functionality with other mac apps.

Suggestions?

Notes on current state of the art:

• Nothing I've found supports version tracking, especially through an external program. Lightroom and Aperture both support a type of versions -- different edits on same master, but at least Aperture doesn't copy metadata to a new version. Aperture supports Stacks -- a group of related pictures.
• Lightroom: Doesn't support PNG, very clunky interface, slow on large catalogs;
• Mylio home version doesn't support hierarchical keywords; doesn't index exif information, does not allow or syntax for searches,
• Photomechanic is fast for keywording and culling, but has very limited search capability.
• IMatch. Possible contender, Requires MS windows box.
• Photo Supreme: Erratic quirks. Crashes. One man shop. Can't search Exif in useful way.
• Fotostation: AFAIK no underlying database. Has to read metadata from images/sidecar files on startup. Slow after 10K images. (They have server based software too that is big bucks.)
• Luminar: A DAM has been promised Real Soon Now, but no demos, storyboards or feature lists have been published. There is a claim that it is in beta, but no one on their fairly active forum will admit to being part of the beta group.
• Affinity: Similar to Luminar.

Commandline tools

Much of the special features for version tracking could be implemented with scripts using calls to these programs.

• ImageMagick -- good for whole-image conversions, also can read/write internal metadata and sidecars.
• Exiftool -- read/write exif data reads most makernotes.
• fswatch -- not really an image processor, but hooks into the operating system and can alert when files have changed -- modified, renamed, moved.

Enterprise level

• WebDAM No real information about capabilities on web site.
• Extensis. Expensive.
• Bynder. Joke program. Cloud based set of shoeboxes.
• WIDEN. Cloud only.
• Asset Bank. Starts at $500/month for up to 50 users.

Metadata Storage

There are three places metadata can be stored:

• In the image.
• In a database.
• In a separate file for each image (sidecar file) Typically these files have the same name as the primary file, but a different suffix.

If at least some cataloging information is written to the image, then you can reconnect a file to your database. In principle this can be a single unique ID.

This saves you from:

• You moved or renamed an image file. If you can write more info into the file -- keywords, captions -- then you are saved from:

• Your database is corrupted. You upgraded your computer and your database program doesn't work there.

Sidecar files allow you to recover all your metadata if your database crashes.

Downsides of storing data in the image

Writing to the original files can corrupt the file. Most RAW formats are well understood enough now to at least identify and replace strings of metadata with the same length string. If you tell your camera to put the copyright string

Copyright 2018 J. Random Shutterbug Image XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX  

Then as long as the DAM keeps that string the same length you are golden.

Keeping all metadata (or as much as you can) in the original images makes for very slow access. Your program has to read at least the first few blocks of every image. Depending on the file structure, adding too much data may require rewriting the entire file. Any program that moves the boundaries of data sub blocks better be well tested.

Writing data back is time consuming.

Some file formats don't have any metadata capability.

Some file formats (Photoshop PSD) are noted for mangling metadata.

A glitch during the write process can corrupt the image file. The alternative, writing a new file, then replacing the old file requires that the entire file be both read and written, rather than just a chunk of it. This has serious performance issues.

Downsides of Databases

Databases are fast, but they are blobby, and you are writing into the middle of blobs of data. If the implementation of the database is solid, there isn't much to worry about. But hard disks have errors, and a single error can make a database partially or fully unusable. Good database design has redundancy built in so that you can repair/rebuild.

Databases are frequently proprietary. Data may be compressed for speed. Getting your data out may be tricky. (Problem for people using Apple Aperture)

Databases frequently are optimized in different ways. In general robustness is gained at the cost of performance and complexity. One compromise is to write all changes first to a transaction file (fast...) and then a background process does the database update in the background. This slows down access some: Have to check both the main database and the transaction file, but unless the transaction file gets to be bigger than memory, this shouldn't be noticeable.

Downsides of Sidecars

You have to read a zillion files at startup.

If you do a batch change (Add the keyword "Italy" to all 3000 of your summer holiday trip shots) the catalog program has open, modify and write back 3000 files.

If you rename a file, and don't rename the sidecar file too, your meta data is no longer connected to your image.

Best practice

Opinion only here: Sorry.

• You want a unique asset tag that resides in the image. This can be an actual tag like the copyright one mentioned above, or it can be a derived tag from information in the image. This could be the EXIF time stamp (Not unique -- multiple shots per second, multiple cameras.) If your program reads makernotes, the best one is Camera model + Camera serial number + timestamp + hundredths of a second.

• You want a database for speed. It, of course has the unique ID

• You want sidecars for rebuilding your database, and for data portability. They have the unique ID.

If the database crashes, it can be rebuild from the sidecars.

If a sidecar is corrupted, it can be rebuilt from the database.

If an image is renamed the ID can be used to reconnect it to the sidecar, and to fix the database.

To make this work, you have to use a lot of timestamps. If the sidecar is more recent than the latest time stamp in the database record, then the sidecar is the authoritative record.

You also have to have internal checks on data integrity. The record for an image (sidecar or database) needs a checksum to verify that that data isn't corrupt.

Given the relatively fragile nature of raw files, best practice is a system that only writes zero or once to the Raw file. This is why the exif time stamp + hundredths, copyright work well. You can include the camera model and serial number in the copyright so that now the copyright message is unique to the camera. At this point you have the ability to create, and recreate a unique ID for each image. If the DAM has the ability to modify the file, you can create this ID once. This saves some time if you ever have to rebuild the database.

Having as much of the metadata in the file as possible means taht it travels with the file. This is a win, but comes with the risk of potential corruption. Possibly the best strategy is to leave the original intact, and for clients who need raw data, either add metadata to a copy, or to a derived full data equivalent (e.g. DNG)

Sidecars don't need to be updated in real time. The slick way to do this would be that whenever the database makes a change to a record:

• Make a new record that duplicates the old record in the database.

• Make the change in the new record.

• New record is flagged, "not written to sidecar"
• Old record is marked "obsolete"
• Another thread writes the sidecar files out, writing out the new one, then deleting the old one (or renaming the new one to the old one's name).
• Periodically you run a cleanup on the database removing obsolete records older than X days. This gives you the ability to rollback changes.

This is not complete: It doesn't address the issue of non-destructive edits. Many programs now allow the creation of multiple images from the same master file, and do not create a new bitmap, but rather a file with a series of instructions for how to make the image from the master. AFAIK all such methods are proprietary. This results in a quandary as the apps that do a good job of tracking metadata may not be able to deal with the non-destructive edits. This can be critical if you crop a person out of an image, crop to emphasis a different aspect, and receive a different caption, etc.

The workaround is that you always write out a new bitmap image from a serious edit. Ideally you have a script that looks for new NDEs and writes out an image based on this, copying the metadata from the master and at some point bringing it up for review for mods to the metadata.

Robustness against external programs.

I like having an underlying file structure organization. I like the idea that if I produce a bunch of cropped, watermarked, lower resolution, etcetera versions of an image that my catalog will track that too.

But if the underlying file structure is exposed to Explorer or Finder, then you have the risk of a file being renamed or moved, and the database is no longer in sync with your file system.

To budnip answers of the form "This is impossible" here's how to "Finder-proof" your image database.

• When an image is edited, a file system watcher notes that the file was opened. The file goes onto the 'watch' list. (the program fswatcher does this on mac. I use it to update my web page when my local copy has been edited.)

• When a new file appears in a monitored directory tree, it's noted.

• When a file is closed, this is also noted. If there has been a new file created it is checked for metadata. If the new file's metadata has a match for an existing file, then existing file metadata is used to repopulate missing data in the file. (Photoshop is notorious for not respecting all metadata.)

• Database is updated with the new file being marked as derivative of the original file.

• optionally a suffix may be added to the new file's image number, showing whether it derives directly from the original or from another derivative.

To make this work, the two components are a unique id that can be calcuated from the master, and a file system monitor program that catches create, move, change, and rename events.

 

 

[GDPR-365024]

Darktable

 

These YouTube Tuts point to/answer much of what you require.

Edited August 26, 2018 by PedroOfOz

[PLShutterbug]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:16 PM, PedroOfOz said:

They have to use the cloud.

Sorry to be argumentative, but they absolutely, positively DO NOT have to use the cloud. They could use a shared drive on a server.

[GDPR-365024]

4 hours ago, PLShutterbug said:

Sorry to be argumentative, but they absolutely, positively DO NOT have to use the cloud. They could use a shared drive on a server.

You're not being argumentative, just unaware of the complete situation.

Unfortunately their 3rd party contractors don't have access to a shared server. They (including myself) upload to Dropbox and that, as far as I'm aware, is the cloud 

[Richard Liu]

Apple was on the right track for a while, organizing images in iPhoto by event, location and people.  Machine learning as applied to images has evolved to the point that a machine learner can be trained to describe pictures, recognize landmarks, etc.  This technology makes keywording pictures as a means of describing their contents as obsolete as, say, keywording web pages as an alternative to using sophisticated search engines that deal with the actual contents of web pages.  If I were developing a photo manager I would pay close attention to opportunities to apply machine learning instead of relying on the patience and diligence of a human keyworder.  Professional photographers might have a higher tolerance for the pain of providing accurate metadata for their photos than recreational photographers.

Yes, in a sense, classic relational databases are not the best way to store information about photos.  You really want something more flexible, e. g. and ontology.

I am still using iPhoto, the predecessor of Photos, for organizing my photos.  I have only recently begun developing and editing them, in Affinity Photo, so would need a program that manages workflows and dovetails with iPhoto/Photos, or one that does everything that iPhoto/Photos does plus manages workflows.  I have all but given up hope on ever being able to migrate my photos to another application without losing all the manually supplied locations where I took the photos.