AD png and jpg exports very poor

[Al Grasso]

I think we need to focus on the original issue that I raised, viz. the export function in AD does not provide a good enough quality of the document designed in the workspace. In this specific example I had an 800x800 pixel document in transparent mode. The image on the document was nice and crisp and basically faultless. Upon exporting it using the default options in png available in AD, and choosing 24-bit and bilinear, the resultant png file was awful in terms of resolution. I could not use it to embed in a leaflet for final printing. I tried the other options available instead of the bilinear, but they all gave similar results to the bilinear mode. These are the facts and this is the key issue. I contend that AD as it stands is not fit for use if the png export algorithm cannot be made richer in options, hence my quotation that the old DrawPlus allowed bit depth choice up to 64 bit.

Other export option in AD are fine except that I would need to revisit the Jpg export as that also did not provide me with a good enough resolution of the same document at 800x800px; but I admit that I could be wrong here as I only tried the jpg conversion once at 95% compression  and the result was not good. 

As a way of finding a solution I just took a screenshot using the facility available in Mac OSX of the drawing displayed by AD on my iMac5k. The result was a clean and crisp png file that I could use it for printing purposes. It left me quite disappointed that I could not achieve the same result using the export function in AD when selecting png, because the option available are either 8 or 24 bits and none others.

Regarding the experiment of exporting in eps format from AD: I only did this to enable me to export the document file from AD to Graphics so that I could use Graphics to convert the file, subsequently, to png because the png export function in Graphics allows me to chose the bit depth. Yes, I chose 144 pixels and I know this will result in a larger document size but the point is this choice is not available in AD that is bound to either 8 or 24. I could have chosen even 300 or 400 (but did not try) pxs but at 144 I had a crisp png conversion suitable for inserting into a brochure for printing.

Now the fact that I may have upscaled the conversion is largely irrelevant because the result cannot be better than the original. The same argument is valid if one up converts an mp3 file encoded at 48kbps to 192kbps. The second file will not generate the high frequency notes because they were not in the 48kbps file. The quality will be the same but the resultant file will be much larger.

I was left frustrated and disappointed that I could not achieve this result simply by using the AD png export function.

There rests my case. I do not think it to be unreasonable to expect AD to be better in this png export function. I really have no more to add and would welcome a closure on this matter. Your inputs are much appreciated but please understand my point: if, on the other hand, there are settings in AD that I have not discovered and that enable me to export a good quality png file from the drawing designed in AD then I am more than willing to understand how I can go about amending the settings and proceed to export a fit for use png document.

[lepr]

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[Al Grasso]

I followed your advice by resampling at 2416 px. The resulting png file is good. Issue closed. I hope Serif will improve the export dialog png options in future so as to make it more straightforward to resample at the relevant optimal pixels. They ought to have 24, 32, 48, 68 and Custom. Thank you for your contribution and advice.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Al Grasso said:

They ought to have 24, 32, 48, 68 and Custom.

In my opinion, the Affinity products confuse the issue by having export presets named "PNG-8 (dithered)" and PNG-24. That allows confusion between the preset names and the file formats. Without looking at the options on the "More..." one can't tell what is happening. On the "More..." page one chooses the pixel format, which will by RGB-8, RGB-16, Grayscale-8, Grayscale-16, or Document Format (RGB-8/16/32, Grayscale 8/16, CMYK 8, or Lab 16 (which I will ignore)).

For an RGB document, I think the following is true though I have not tried them all to verify it, nor found tools that display enough info to confirm:

1. RGB-8 should give you the 24 that you asked for. I'm not sure what the 32 you want would be, but if you're meaning transparency, then RGB-8 with transparency would, I think, give you 32-bits per pixel. I have not found a tool to examine a PNG and confirm this.
2. RGB-16 should give you 48 (and perhaps 56 64 if you have chosen the transparency option).
3. Document Format will give you RGB-8 (24 or 32 bits per pixel), or RGB-16 (48 or 56 64 bpp), or RGB-32 (96 or 104 bpp).

The preset name does not determine the actual file details that export produces; you need to take into account what you ask for on "More..." and the color format of the image/file you're exporting.

Edited August 18, 2018 by walt.farrell
Corrected based on info from owenr below.

[lepr]

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[lepr]

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[Al Grasso]

In reply to Walt.Farrell-

I think I am beginning to understand how the png export presets in AD are structured. They have been confusing for me as it implies that there are only those two options available for exporting a png format file. ThePNG-8 and PNG-24. The key point is that one has to click on the MORE  button and then select/choose the rasterised resolution required in the exported file. I guess the Affinity Team imagine that all users are professional illustrators and are familiar with these details. I am not a professional illustrator and I find that more optimised presets for non-specialists would be better for me; as they used to be in DrawPlus. I almost wish I had made that map in Autocad rather than Affinity Designer!

Thanks for your further inputs.

 

In reply to Owenr-

I am perfectly aware that exporting to a png format I am rasterising the vector entities in the original file to a format chosen by the default presets made available in png export "persona", using your jargon. I think the point is that I was used to DrawPlus which was able to export in 32bit and got a crisp image in png format and transparent, whereas now, if I have understood correctly, in AD I have to set it myself from the MORE dialog box. Fine, I try to work with it but I do not like it. I much prefer to have the same approach as your software had in DrawPlus. At least users like myself can get results intuitively and quickly.

Regarding the term I used in my reply "resampling" I accept the point that being the original file a vector quantity made up of n-vector entities, every time I make an export the file is being sampled rather than resampled from vector to raster pixel. I actually implied this function but I accept that sampling rather than resampling is the correct word to use.

One of the problem I find is that Serif's business format since moving to the Affinity new software is that the old reference manual that was available with DrawPLus, PagePlus, PhotoPlus, etc. have been effectively discontinued. The built-in help file is rather fastidious to search through and often does not provide the information required if one is looking for detailed explanation of how the, for example, export png function works. I assumed there were only the two presets mentioned earlier whereas now I understand there is a plethora of other choices to make by clicking the MORE button. Of course the fact that PNG-8 or PNG-24 do not refer to what they imply does not help.

Thanks for your patience and inputs. 

 

[walt.farrell]

24 minutes ago, Al Grasso said:

ThePNG-8 and PNG-24. The key point is that one has to click on the MORE  button and then select/choose the rasterised resolution required in the exported file. I guess the Affinity Team imagine that all users are professional illustrators and are familiar with these details. I am not a professional illustrator and I find that more optimised presets for non-specialists would be better for me; as they used to be in DrawPlus. I almost wish I had made that map in Autocad rather than Affinity Designer

Yes, to understand what they're really doing one needs to look at the "More..." details. It is possible, though, that simply choosing PNG-24 is the right choice for many uses and users.

Also, note that you can create and save your own presets if you have common circumstances that the default presets don't handle well.

[Al Grasso]

That is a very good tip. I will optimise a couple of custom settings that suits my needs. Thank you.

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

In my opinion, the Affinity products confuse the issue by having export presets named "PNG-8 (dithered)" and PNG-24.

Please consider that these are just the short preset names they have chosen for the default presets built into the apps. More descriptive names for every setting in those presets that a user might not know about could run to a hundred or more characters, & that still would not confuse some users any less. Users still have to understand what the options those presets include are & what they do to get the results they want, & longer names are not going to do that.

Like @walt.farrell just said, users can also create their own presets & name them in whatever way works best for them. For example, I added a PNG preset whose main difference from the default PNG-24 should be obvious from the name I gave it:

Edited August 18, 2018 by R C-R
Walt beat me to it.