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Designer adding swashes to font?


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Hi everyone,

I got back to working on an old project and thought for a second that I'd purchased the wrong version of a typeface. The typeface in question is called Parfumerie, and I purchased it off Font Shop over a year ago. Affinity Designer is hell-bent on adding additional swashes to my chosen text in this particular typeface. I know I didn't purchase the wrong typeface, as I've tried this in Pages, and the characters appear as they should.

If I turn off ligatures completely, it does some additional weird stuff to the text! I am attaching what it *should* look like, versus what it currently looks like. I have also gone into Preferences - Reset Fonts and it doesn't do anything. 

I'm coming from years of using Illustrator and when I found Designer, I was ecstatic. I prefer it so much more. But this is really stumping me!

I appreciate your help, all! Thanks :)

(The bottom "soft" is the correct one)

soft_incorrect.png

soft_correct.png

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Hi  patski,
Welcome to the forums!

This isn't an issue I've seen before and may be related to your specific font. Could you please upload the font files to the following link? I'll ensure they're deleted after testing so no agreements are broken :) 

https://www.dropbox.com/request/1UjJPeuEhtWixGSUs73u

Please Note: I am now out of the office until Tuesday 2nd April on annual leave.

If you require urgent assistance, please create a new thread and a member of our team will be sure to assist asap.

Many thanks :)

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It looks as though the middle two letters are the same in both samples but the first and last letters differ, which suggests that the top sample has initial (‘init’) and terminal (‘fina’) forms switched on. There should be an OpenType feature control to correct this.

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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It probably does not look the way it should, but I prefer the top one. The top and bottom part of the "F" look much nicer.

-- Window 11 - 32 gb - Intel I7 - 8700 - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
-- iPad Pro 2020 - 12,9 - 256 gb - Apple Pencil 2 -- iPad 9th gen 256 gb - Apple Pencil 1
-- Macbook Air 15"

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46 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

It looks as though the middle two letters are the same in both samples but the first and last letters differ, which suggests that the top sample has initial (‘init’) and terminal (‘fina’) forms switched on. There should be an OpenType feature control to correct this.

That is the issue in this font. Both those art active by default and can be shut off in AD.

Unless the OP's version is different than mine, though, it's only going to make matters worse as the font designer added three Terminal Forms (fina, fin2, fin3) features and AD only enumerates the proper one, fina, not fin2 nor fin3.

So if the OP's font looks like this when the Final Forms feature is shut off in AD...

capture-002094.png.e456207b0370c1a134d537035ee6410d.png

Then the font author is going to need contacted and the fin2 & fin3 features should be moved to SS features or whatever.

Mike

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Hi Dan,

I uploaded the files to your DropBox. Thank you.

Bear with me, as this is rather confusing...why are both TextEdit and Pages (OS X El Cap 10.11.6) displaying this with no issue, but AD is like "look at all these options that you don't even want!!!" ?

I need this to look like example # 2, as in my original post, or I cannot use it with my branding, and I've already paid for this font. 

This is extremely frustrating. I appreciate all your help, everyone. 
 

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5 minutes ago, patski said:

Hi Dan,

I uploaded the files to your DropBox. Thank you.

Bear with me, as this is rather confusing...why are both TextEdit and Pages (OS X El Cap 10.11.6) displaying this with no issue, but AD is like "look at all these options that you don't even want!!!" ?

I need this to look like example # 2, as in my original post, or I cannot use it with my branding, and I've already paid for this font. 

This is extremely frustrating. I appreciate all your help, everyone. 
 

Serif follow the recommendations as to what OpenType features should be on or off initially. I disagree about that decision and have tried unsuccessfully to reverse that decision.

This wouldn't be an issue with this font, though, if the font authors didn't include multiple fina features. But here's a question, if using the Typography panel and unchecking the intial forms and final forms, does that sample text change to what I show? I have the first version of that font and what I show is what happens if I shut those off. It's a right mess as the other two fina features are still active. It's a wrong way to write OT Features.

I can fix your version if what I show is still incorrect once you turn off those features in the Typgography panel. Let me know if you have what I show if this is the case, and feel free to contact me off-line via sending me a PM and I'll let you know what my email address is. 

Do note it would be best if the font author did this.

As to Pages, et al, it is likely they either have these features turned off initially or cannot access them. I use a PC so do not know why.

Mike

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6 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Serif follow the recommendations as to what OpenType features should be on or off initially. I disagree about that decision and have tried unsuccessfully to reverse that decision.

This wouldn't be an issue with this font, though, if the font authors didn't include multiple fina features.

It baffles me that the font authors have implemented ‘fin2’ and ‘fin3’ in this way. From reading up about it, both features relate to the replacement of Syriac script alaph characters, and only in particular contexts.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/features_fj

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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2 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

It baffles me that the font authors have implemented ‘fin2’ and ‘fin3’ in this way. From reading up about it, both features relate to the replacement of Syriac script alaph characters, and only in particular contexts.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/features_fj

Yep. It should have never been done this way.

A non-Middle East version of InDesign wouldn't have this issue (I didn't try it, though). That is because unless one is using the ME version, these features are shut off by default but can be turned on in the non-ME version if desired.

This is what Serif ought to do as well, especially since they do not support ME features.

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4 minutes ago, patski said:

If I've understood this correctly...this is partially do to how some features of this font were implemented...as well as how Designer is showing it by default?

Yes on all accounts.

The bozos should have never implemented the fin2/fin3 features. Ideally, all these "extra" characters in those OT features should simply be in the Alternates feature (simple, easy but only useful with a character or two selected), or via context aware features (harder, slower to write properly).

Mike

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  • 1 year later...

I've just added a comment on this topic to an existing thread.  Bottom line is that some fonts are rendered illegible and useless without the ability to suppress the OpenType "init" feature.

[ADDED IN EDIT] When I turn on the "Hide irrelevant features" checkbox in the Typography panel, it exposes the Positional Alternate section, which offers the ability to suppress Initial Forms.  So I am going to submit a bug report about "hide" meaning "show".

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