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Progress with the Affinity Designer feature road map (split)

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1 hour ago, JET_Affinity said:

But today there are at least a few standardized open exchange object-based formats which the various vendors can choose to implement (primarily PDF and SVG), and Affinity supports both. But even of these, PDF is not actually intended to be an editing format. And with either format, full editability at both ends of the exchange is far from "seamless" in terms of native round-trip editing, because the exchange formats do not fully support all of the native editing constructs of all the programs that use them.

Regarding the development of the SVG format, this interview with Jon Ferraiolo, sometimes called the father of SVG, is worth reading, particularly his comments in the SVG today section about why the SVG spec so enormous & what is problematic about supporting all of it.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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5 hours ago, JET_Affinity said:

But that is an unrealistic expectation. For example, you can't even provide an "end user editable" Adobe Illustrator file and "know that [the recipient] can make any necessary changes in Photoshop." Illustrator can't "seamlessly" open an Adobe Fireworks or an Adobe Flash file and "make any necessary changes" nor vice-versa.

You're setting up a straw man here because AI -> PS isn't an appropriate comparison and isn't at all what I'm arguing for. Take 3d formats for example. Obviously you won't get a 1:1 of all proprietary features with different formats, but you can still be reasonably sure that if you are sent an OBJ, 3ds, or DAE that you'll be able to import the model and edit it if necessary. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. 

Adobe owns the design industry and is THE standard for any kind of professional design workflow. It's 20 years of lockdown and unless you find a way to work with CC, the cost of entry is too high for most agencies to even think about switching so I have to either use Adobe or use something that can integrate with it when other team members need to touch files. That's why this kind of interchange is necessary and why talking about interchange with other alternative apps is much less relavant here.

Because Serif has done such a great job with the PSD import/export it almost functions as a seamless interchange with Adobe... just that tiny issue of no editable text can be exported kills it. I can sort of work around it if no text is needed on the document, but there's a surprising amount of it that ends up on anything from social images to banners and other graphics. Outside of PSD's there really isn't many options on the raster front. I hope that one day Serif can get the export figured out, but it's a bit naïve assume it'll ever change and jump platforms entirely hoping it does.

Vector is a much, much sticker issue. Despite having SVG and EPS to send back and forth, I've been having difficulty getting consistent results from Affinity. Case in point, I did a simple test illustration with some strokes, clipping paths, and gradients. With EPS I ended up getting the gradients rasterized and with SVG I got the strokes expanded if they weren't set to centered. Sometimes the illustration came in with strokes massively thicker than Designer too. Combine that with limited information as to WHAT will change when exported, it makes it impossible to do an illustration expect it'll look right when it's opened vs just doing it in illustrator.

TL/DR: Photo -> Photoshop is ok, but could be practically indistinguishable if text worked on export. Designer -> Illustrator seems very hit or miss with limited indication of what is or isn't supported and uncertain results opening EPS and SVG in Illustrator. 

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You're setting up a straw man here because AI -> PS isn't an appropriate comparison and isn't at all what I'm arguing for.

The way I read it, that's exactly what you are arguing for. Again, these were your words (emphasis added):

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Seamless handoff means I can provide an end user editable format either vector or raster and know that they can open the doc and make any necessary changes in Photoshop or another app.

EPS as an exchange format has been pretty much deprecated since the early 90s, because PDF is like capturing the elements "halfway" on their way to deconstruction and normalization.

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Take 3d formats for example.

I did. 3D modeling softwares in the genre oriented toward graphics and the gaming industry do indeed play amazingly well together. But not nearly so well in the engineering genre.

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Adobe owns the design industry...

Adobe only dominates the design industry because users keep calling it things like "THE standard for any kind of professional design workflow." That's not just nonsense, but rather insulting. I've always considered it a matter of professionalism to maintain at least working familiarity with as many mainstream drawing programs as I can, and I dare say my graphics work is as "professional" as yours. And Illustrator's development since the 80s has arguably been the most sluggish of all.

Frankly, I'm not really interested in seeing the Affinity team expend its energy on some kind of mythical "perfect" content exchange with Illustrator. Since CS6, my use of Illustrator is just withering on the vine, and that suits me fine. Quite the contrary, I want to see Affinity and other innovative offerings energetically focus beyond the mediocrity of Adobe Illustrator.

JET

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3 hours ago, JET_Affinity said:

The way I read it, that's exactly what you are arguing for. Again, these were your words (emphasis added): 

Then apparently I wasn't as clear as I thought. My apologies.

 

3 hours ago, JET_Affinity said:

Adobe only dominates the design industry because users keep calling it things like "THE standard for any kind of professional design workflow." That's not just nonsense, but rather insulting.

I'm calling bull on this. We SAY that's the case because the industry DOES revolve on Adobe's globe due to Adobe's near monopoly. Adobe is the standard because they've provided the most widely available integrated toolset and shut down any potential competition for the last what 30+ years. To pretend that is the case simply because everyone keeps saying Adobe's the standard, well, that's just... naïve. It's only been in the last 5 years or so there's even been a crack in the empire with the UI design segment exploding.

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12 hours ago, Vaaish said:

Vector is a much, much sticker issue. Despite having SVG and EPS to send back and forth, I've been having difficulty getting consistent results from Affinity. Case in point, I did a simple test illustration with some strokes, clipping paths, and gradients. With EPS I ended up getting the gradients rasterized and with SVG I got the strokes expanded if they weren't set to centered. Sometimes the illustration came in with strokes massively thicker than Designer too. Combine that with limited information as to WHAT will change when exported, it makes it impossible to do an illustration expect it'll look right when it's opened vs just doing it in illustrator. 

SVG doesn’t currently have any support for non-centered strokes, but that is not the problem of Affinity or Illustrator (or Inkscape, or whatever else), it’s a problem of the file format which is specified by an independent entity. So, if you have strokes that aren’t centered, every program has to make a decision on how to handle this when exporting as SVG: either keep the object type/attribute at the expense of slightly changing the look or keep the look and convert the objects/attributes to universally supported ones.

But to make a point with a different argument: you can’t even reliably interchange AI files between different versions of Illustrator, i. e. AI files from newer versions of Illustrator will not open properly in older versions. So I would say it’s a little unfair to expect that from a completely different program.

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Adobe is the standard because they've provided the most widely available integrated toolset...

Integration. Another myth. Merely having the same brand on the boxes and selling them as a bundle does not make disparate softwares "integrated." Corel's suite is more functionally "integrated" than Adobe's. And clearly, functional integration between apps is part of the driving agenda with the Affinity line.

I think you need to differentiate what kind of "seamless integration" you're talking about if you insist on continuing this line of argument. When you're talking about "seamless integration" between different workers under different roofs actually editing the same files, workflow is of course more "seamless" if everyone is using the same software. But that would be true of any software. But not everyone works that way. No one modifies my illustrations but me. And I can "integrate" them into any "industry standard" publishing workflow with any of the drawing programs I use, via commonly-compatible exchange formats.

Look, I've been making my living doing this stuff since before Macs and graphics software. Throughout their competitive history, Aldus/Altsys FreeHand led Illustrator in functionality, often to the point of embarrassment. Even in those pre-PDF years, I was doing national level advertising and product collateral with FreeHand in the days when the claim of Illustrator devotees was that one "can't get files output at the service bureaus without using Illustrator." Those same single-program devotees rent their garments and proclaimed the coming of the apocalypse whenever anyone merely suggested that an Illustrator file should be able to have a "page 2."

Adobe is what it is (big) primarily because of one reason: PostScript. That was the baby that put Adobe on the map because it was the software half of the industry-changing "desktop publishing" equation in the 80s. That's how Adobe first acquired its mindshare. Many of its software products were acquired from other companies (and some of them wrecked).

It takes a while for users to get over their fear of learning new and different software, but times do change. And Adobe's applications (especially Illustrator) are increasingly dated. In terms of "professional" quality and functionality; Illustrator is as mediocre as "competing" programs which mimic it, and the widespread addiction to that mediocrity has stifled the advancement of the 2D vector drawing segment. I mean, honestly; an ostensibly "professional" 2D drawing program in the 21st century that can't handle user-defined drawing scales?

It's way past time for something beyond that, and the Affinity line is one of the promising specs of light shining at the end of that long tunnel. But it, too, will fall into mediocrity if the goal is to simply focus on playing "me, too" to Adobe.

JET

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Sometimes, it's not "everyone want Adobe files".

We usually ask for PDF files since it's the most logical format, whatever program was used to create the file will produce a PDF we'll need to correct or tweak if lacking some proprieties, but the result will look mostly as intended by our client (in worst case scenario, we ask a screenshot so we'll be able to reproduce the intended effect).

We have few Affinity licences, and wouldn't mind if people send us Affinity files.

But for now, no one (client or illustrator) asked us if we would accept those files.

In the futur, perhaps there will be more people using Affinity's apps and sending their files. Full CC licences will be purchased/continued for specific tasks/works, and Affinity or other apps will be used by the ones that don't need such specific features.

The Press is having more and more difficulties, and I suspect  it's a sector where such apps would be used if they can adapt their workflow and archiving flow... If plugins and scripts and other automated tasks can be deployed.

In the past they switch from QXP to ID... Why not another switch to Affinity when the products are mature enough?

If Affinity apps get enough users, it can be usefull for companies to buy a licence (we already have specific licences on some computers depending of the need of specific jobs).

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39 minutes ago, Wosven said:

Sometimes, it's not "everyone want Adobe files".

 

Sometimes it is, in fact I do, and all the other folks in my same industry. I could almost switch to Coreldraw, can easily export Ai files with layers. 


Andrew
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58 minutes ago, verysame said:

Sometimes it is, in fact I do, and all the other folks in my same industry.

I don't know about anyone else but I am always impressed by someone who can speak for all of an industry! ;)


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

I don't know about anyone else but I am always impressed by someone who can speak for all of an industry! ;)

Of course, I was referring to the industry I work for. Graphic design doesn't refer to one type of job. So, yes, I can speak for all of an industry if that's motion graphics. Does it make sense now?

 


Andrew
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23 minutes ago, verysame said:

So, yes, I can speak for all of an industry if that's motion graphics. Does it make sense now?

It would make sense if you had spoken with every person working in the motion graphics industry throughout the world & each of them had agreed to let you speak for them. That seems very unlikely to me, so no, it does not make sense to me.

But again, I can only speak for myself.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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7 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It would make sense if you had spoken with every person working in the motion graphics industry throughout the world & each of them had agreed to let you speak for them. That seems very unlikely to me, so no, it does not make sense to me.

But again, I can only speak for myself.

I didn't know you work in the same industry. 


Andrew
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3 minutes ago, verysame said:

I didn't know you work in the same industry. 

I don't have to work in any industry to know that no one person can speak for everyone in that industry, whatever industry that might be.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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21 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I don't have to work in any industry to know that no one person can speak for everyone in that industry, whatever industry that might be.

Actually, you have to if you want to be entitled to talk about it. No one could use anything different from Illustrator if he's doing animation with After Effects and vectors. Let me rephrase it: no one in his/her mind would do that. So, you might be able to find someone who went completely nuts and who love spending days in pain, but if that person reached that level of craziness no one would hire him considered it would take him an insane amount of time to finish the job, hence he wouldn't be working in this industry. 


Andrew
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12 hours ago, verysame said:

Actually, you have to if you want to be entitled to talk about it.

Actually, working in any industry only entitles you to talk about your own experiences in that industry. It does not entitle you to talk about anyone else's experience in or with that industry unless they have granted you the right to do so. 


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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Well I think what we've gathered so far is that no one has a file format solution. Including Adobe—I'll give Affinity some props on cross-app file compatibility. The bottom line is that Adobe is an industry standard, but by no fault or action of their own other than getting in early. (this is the part where you chime in and tell me that's not the case because of other deprecated pieces of design software that no one cares about that have been around since the 80's. Affinity hit the scene well after Adobe was an established company and has caused quite a stir...that's not for nothing, so I say it's apples and oranges) Replace Adobe with Affinity in 1985 and things would look different. Affinity has proven themselves just as capable (or more so) of producing top-notch design software. Adobe just has several decades on them and that's all their is to it. Give Affinity 30 years of dev time and accrued revenue and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Right now, it's like comparing the abilities of an 18 year old and a gifted 5 year old. As gifted and as accelerated as that 5 year old might be, the 18 year old has, at the very least, an additional 13 years worth of experience and relational equity with those that surround them. And Affinity is gifted, take a look at the work some artists have made at Affinity Spotlight; you don't make stuff like some of this with crap software. For all the people that whine and moan that Affinity can't do "this or that" thing—you're right, it can't. But that hasn't stopped others from producing some really great work. Some jerk is going to argue with me that I'm "wrong" even though I'm not wrong, I'm just stating facts. So go ahead...

I have to use Adobe files for my work, but I do hop in and out of Affinity because it really is a better experience. There are some things I can't do with Affinity apps, but they'll get there. Performance alone is head and shoulders above Adobe—and it's because Affinity apps were built from scratch. I've been harping in Adobe forums for years for someone over there to just make the call to start on a fresh release of core apps like Photoshop and Illustrator. It might take some years but GOD I know they would be better for it. AI and PS are like a fat man squeezed into a corset.

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On 8/3/2018 at 6:43 PM, waveman777 said:

Right now I'm trying to figure out, why using a shortcut twice makes it switch to a previously used one... Whose crazy idea was that?? In illustrator, no matter how many times I click "T" tool, it's still I Text Tool, in AD, "T" can become anything, depending on what was used next, so I have to be careful all the time not to accidentally press it twice, as I'm using shortcuts constantly and switching between them. In Illustrator - I don't think about it ever, a shortcut is a shortcut! to one particular tool! AD drives me crazy.

I'm glad someone else finally mentioned this! The keyboard shortcuts have been jarring for me since the beginning and are one of the reasons I still use Pixelmator when I can. I'm not a professional user so I normally keep quiet.

If I have the move tool selected and press T, it always switches to art text mode (it doesn't just toggle it – it's clearly biased toward art text).

And if I happen to have a frame text object already selected, pressing T makes me edit the text, even if I just want to create a new object. I have to press ESC to stop editing and then T to switch back to frame text before I can do that.

I have similar problems with the node tool. I'm not always aware whether I have the move or node tool selected, especially when I'm clicking multiple times to drill into groups. I sometimes click one too many times and it switches to the node tool and it's hard to notice it. Pressing ESC doesn't switch back to the move tool, even though it deselects the object and subsequently clicking & dragging it even makes it move as though the move tool was selected.

I just wish for an option to change this behavior. It's easy enough for me to press V when I want to move and A when I want to edit nodes. And when I double-click to edit some text or nodes I expect ESC to put me back to the tool I had before. Moving and editing objects are things I do much more often than creating new objects. If I want to create an object, I could press the hotkey myself.

It's confusing to me, but Affinity has a few major advantages over Pixelmator, like the single-window layout and the silky smooth zoom!


AD+AP, Mac 10.9, kbd & mouse, casual user since 2014

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Wow, this is not an encouraging thread.. lol.. To all the mods, advanced users and Affinity staff, whatever the user complaint is, the reply "Affinity never claimed to be a replacement for Adobe" is a horrible, horrible response. If this software is being marketed as a professional graphic design tool, and it most certainly is, then the idea of using it to replace Adobe products is implied simply by Adobe's current dominance in that space. We all know that Adobe enjoys a relative monopoly as the defacto solution for digital design.  I would hazard to guess that most Affinity users are here to replace Adobe. Especially since Adobe has decided to take advantage of its market position to over charge massively for its subscription model, completely alienating freelancers and any other users that aren't large agencies... So when you respond with that tact it looks very bad, silly and defensive. It doesn't communicate that the Affinity team is committed to publishing professional software that meets the needs of its diverse customer base. Having a lot of impassioned users who want to make the product better is good problems, not bad ones. Now I am wondering if Affinity is actually serious or not. It will be a shame if not, because the software is already really good and innovative, and there is a huge market opportunity right now.. All in all this Forum is a great example of why Forums in general are a crappy way to handle customer service. As a user I have no idea what Serif really thinks about Affinity Designer, and what they are committed to doing with the software. Instead I get a bunch of "Advanced Users" with their own opinions and perspectives..

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1 hour ago, Jesse (Mediabound) said:

Wow, this is not an encouraging thread.. lol.. To all the mods, advanced users and Affinity staff, whatever the user complaint is, the reply "Affinity never claimed to be a replacement for Adobe" is a horrible, horrible response. [...]

Very good points, Jesse, there’s definitely food for thought but I’ll cut it short: what you can simply expect is “Serif is a small company with limited resources, hence can’t compete with Adobe”.


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27 minutes ago, verysame said:

Very good points, Jesse, there’s definitely food for thought but I’ll cut it short: what you can simply expect is “Serif is a small company with limited resources, hence can’t compete with Adobe”.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post! I'm sure you get it, but for anyone else who may have been misconstrued by my wording: I am not expecting Affinity to be as feature rich or bug free as Adobe Illustrator, software which has had dozens and dozens of releases over the course of many, many years. What I am saying though is that for Affinity to be taken seriously then there needs to be clear leadership on the part of the Customer Service and Development team to handle customer feedback proactively. The standard in today's business climate, like it or not, is that there be a fairly high level of transparency in the planning and execution of software development. It is also disingenuous, and therefore self destructive, to compete for Adobe's business from a marketing standpoint, then when it comes to delivery using the "we're too small to compete" excuse. I would also mention that being smaller than Adobe is actually an immense strength in terms of development agility. Anyway, I am rambling.. In closing there is a huge market for design software that is untapped, and it is growing all the time as more and more people turn to the gig economy to realize their financial goals. Hopefully Serif is poised and determined to serve that market.

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7 hours ago, Jesse (Mediabound) said:

 I am not expecting Affinity to be as feature rich or bug free as Adobe Illustrator, software which has had dozens and dozens of releases over the course of many, many years. What I am saying though is that for Affinity to be taken seriously then there needs to be clear leadership on the part of the Customer Service and Development team to handle customer feedback proactively. The standard in today's business climate, like it or not, is that there be a fairly high level of transparency in the planning and execution of software development. It is also disingenuous, and therefore self destructive, to compete for Adobe's business from a marketing standpoint, then when it comes to delivery using the "we're too small to compete" excuse. I would also mention that being smaller than Adobe is actually an immense strength in terms of development agility. Anyway, I am rambling.. In closing there is a huge market for design software that is untapped, and it is growing all the time as more and more people turn to the gig economy to realize their financial goals. Hopefully Serif is poised and determined to serve that market.

Jesse,

I see that you are rather new here so welcome to the forums, Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on pretty much all of your points. I don't run into very many bugs using Designer. I would say Designer is similar to or even better than Illustrator in the number of critical bugs. Sure Designer hasn't quite caught up to the number of features that Illustrator has but who in the world would ever expect a relatively new app (coming up on 4 years) to have the same feature set as a program that has been on the market for 30 years?

Also I'm curious as to who at Adobe do you talk to on their forums that is so transparent? I've never seen any transparency from Adobe with the exception of the transparency that they showed when they forced everyone on to a subscription model. The greed showed quite clearly through all the transparency. Adobe rarely, if ever, tells its users what it is planning to do. In fact they often suddenly drop support for programs with almost no notice. Not exactly the model for transparency. I'm curious to hear examples of other companies that are as up front about what they are planning to add to their software as Serif is. I can imagine that most people who have been here a while will tell you that the developers and other employees of Serif do a fantastic job interacting with the users here on the forum. You won't find anything like it on any other company's website. 

Has Serif ever marketed their programs as direct replacements for Adobe's? I haven't seen it but maybe they do? If they have, could you please give some examples to support your statement? 

Best regards,

Hokusai

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On 9/1/2018 at 1:44 AM, Hokusai said:

Jesse,

I see that you are rather new here so welcome to the forums, Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on pretty much all of your points. I don't run into very many bugs using Designer. I would say Designer is similar to or even better than Illustrator in the number of critical bugs. Sure Designer hasn't quite caught up to the number of features that Illustrator has but who in the world would ever expect a relatively new app (coming up on 4 years) to have the same feature set as a program that has been on the market for 30 years?

Has Serif ever marketed their programs as direct replacements for Adobe's? I haven't seen it but maybe they do? If they have, could you please give some examples to support your statement?

It's funny to me that you interpreted that statement as a criticism of Affinity Designer, it wasn't, but defensiveness seems to be the default posture in these forums. Your response is entirely out of context, if you took my comment in context, it being a reply to a comment on my initial posting, you would realize I was actually saying the same thing you are here and throughout your reply. I left Adobe to come to Affinity because of the very reasons you brought up, again all of which I laid out in my initial post..

Secondly I never said "Serif directly marketed their programs as direct replacements for Adobe's", but again, you have missed my point entirely by bringing this line of questioning up. Actually you've proved my point again..  In short, it doesn't matter to what degree you feel, or anyone else feels they have marketed as an Adobe replacement - Since Adobe has such a dominant market share in this space, any software is going to face those comparisons, so to respond by saying "we never said we were like Adobe" is completely pointless. Asking me to prove Serif said it or not? Give me a break, is this an ideological battle? Lol.. It doesn't matter, I am a new user of the software and I am going to want to use it to do tasks I would have used Illustrator for before, me and a whole heap of other users I am sure.. Do you want to learn from what users are experiencing and provide a product that meets their needs or do you want to play semantic games about whether or not comparisons to Adobe are warranted?

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Jesse,

My post was in response to the post that I read, after that I found your post that preceded it further up the chain and I do see that we both have similar opinions about Adobe. If you only read your second post that point isn't clear (but it is in the first post). I'm not sure why I didn't see your first post but nevertheless I should have seen it. Sorry that you think I'm defensive. I'm not defensive and from what I read here most people who post here are pretty laidback and helpful. In fact most of the people that I interact with here are really nice and helpful. Some are funny and sarcastic but still enjoyable and many are incredibly knowledgeable. 

I'm still interested in hearing about all those companies that you were talking about that have a higher level of transparency than Serif does. I've never seen a company that was as upfront about what they are doing and where they are going with their development as Serif has been. I think it is refreshing and it is surprising to hear anyone claim that Serif is falling short in that regard. As far as customer service goes, from my experiences with Serif over the past 4 years their customer service has been stellar. I lived many years in Japan which has hands down the best customer service on the planet and I would say that Serif's customer service is very Japanese like. To me, Serif's customer service and the developers and other employees who post here on these forums do a remarkable job helping people, listening to complaints, requests (which I can imagine gets annoying after a time), and questions. I'm sure that they even type messages with a smile on their faces. Can you give me an example of where they fall short with their customer service? 

I can understand your point about how Serif markets its software but I disagree. Not all professionals use Adobe's software so saying something is for professionals doesn't mean that something is a replacement for Adobe's stuff. I use Designer the most but I still use Illustrator from time to time. So to me Designer isn't a substitute for Illustrator, it is an alternative to it. I think that many people are like that. Serif is making and supporting its own software and they have their own philosophy on how things should work. Is it for professionals? I think so and it seems that many other professionals do too. Is it for everyone? Only each user can decide. You brought up the issue of comparing it to Adobe so that is why I commented on it. This is a discussion so I would think it is acceptable. You said that I proved your point but to me it wasn't proved at all so if you wouldn't mind going ahead and making a better case for it I'm looking forward to reading it. 

Of course I'm all for improving Designer. I do my best to make suggestions and give feedback in a manner that is civil without being demanding and rude. I too came to Designer from Illustrator and I am willing to put up with a few small inconveniences caused by a lack of a feature or two because I think Designer is headed in the right direction. I like the choices that the developers have made and I trust that they are taking the program in the direction that is best. I wish you the best of luck with learning Designer and I hope that you are successful in your artistic or other graphics related pursuits. 

Best regards,

Hokusai

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On 9/1/2018 at 2:44 AM, Hokusai said:

I don't run into very many bugs using Designer.

But unfortunately Affinity Designer has hundreds of bugs. They range from simple issues to fully problematic areas (like constraints), plus serious memory and performance issues on the PC. I believe the team is fully aware of those issues and they will address them sometime, if not already.

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1 hour ago, rubs said:

But unfortunately Affinity Designer has hundreds of bugs. They range from simple issues to fully problematic areas (like constraints), plus serious memory and performance issues on the PC. I believe the team is fully aware of those issues and they will address them sometime, if not already.

rubs,

No doubt there are bugs in Designer but I've never seen the number of bugs that you are talking about. Every program has bugs and I do see them occasionally but with what I do with Designer I don't see very many bugs. The few that I do see are not critical ones that keep me from getting things done. The few that I encounter are minor and can easily be avoided or I can work around them. My original point was that from my own personal experience using Designer, it is a little better in regards to the number of bugs that I see than Illustrator. As the post I was responding to made it sound like Illustrator was more "bug-free" to which from my experience isn't true. Of course that is only my experience with Illustrator and Designer and I'm sure that it depends on a multitude of factors but at the very least I would say that Designer isn't worse than Illustrator in that regard. I'm using Designer on Mac so the performance issues that you are referring to I haven't seen. Maybe they aren't present on the Mac version? I do think that the developers do a great job staying on top of and fixing bugs. 

Hokusai

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