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Bryce

Grays and Blacks output CMYK

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Hello,

I'm using Affinity Designer 1.6.1 and I have a problem with exporting colors to PDF. on MacOS 10.13.6. 

When exporting to PDF we choose our presets that include the US Prepress Coated V2, same as we do with Indesign, but the colors come out very different. Anything that is listed as the swatch grays or blacks convert to all four colors of CMYK totaling 344% ink. Otherwise any misregistration causes the type to look bad.

Black or 100% gray is exporting as 92c 84m 84y 84k but that is not what is specified in the document. Grays and Black should be percentages of K only when exported for print.

I double checked that the document is setup for CMYK and for printing to make sure those were not issues.

Now If I set the color to be a Percentage of K it exports correctly. 

I found this is true even if the files are placed as PDF's and the colors are correct in the placed PDF but then will export wrong, or with colors selected in Affinity. This is a very serious issue for those in the printing industry, and I would love to know what to do so I can use this professionally and show others a better software than Adobe.

Is there something that can be done about this on my end or is it a bug?

Thank you for all your help!

 

Affinity.png

actual.png

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Hi Bryce

The grey swatches are based on HSL colours to cover all colour spaces rather than CMYK so black will be true black instead of 100% K. There is a report already to have a CMYK based grey swatch category, but you can also create your won Set of swatches if that is what you require

Cheers


Serif Europe Ltd - Check the latest news at www.affinity.serif.com

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For printing that certainly needs to be done.

What I don't understand is PDF files that are already correct, placed into AD and then it changes to the wrong colors when exported. 

I do see in the palette the screen shot to set the default but I don't think it does anything when I choose CMYK. That would be handy to have control over how the colors are handled because right now it doesn't seem to reflect what you choose. Selecting this and the document intent in setup should be changing the color palettes for the output intent and make it right when exported.

I'm also not sure why it shows the CMYK values are correct in AD but then exports wrong is that part of being based on HSL even though it shows CMYK in the screenshot? Shouldn't it just show HSL if that is what it intends to output as?

Hopefully the Publisher program will address many of these issues. It won't fly in the print/publishing world if it doesn't and I really want these programs to work and displace Adobe.

Thank you!

Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 9.26.37 AM.png

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If you do not create your own 100% k and tints thereof (first thing I did), if you slide that K slider down a bit then back to 100%k, it will/should output at 100%k. It's a long standing way Serif applications have worked.

I don't know what your document color space is nor the output profile, if the color space and/or its output profile is in the placed PDF, but if they are different you are experiencing a profile to profile conversion. In a proper PDF/X output profile, this should handle the situation. But it doesn't as a placed PDF has to have either the same output profile or none at all.

Mike


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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The profiles are correct across our systems. We print every day and our main profile is US Prepress Coated v2.  Adobe is setup this way, Affinity is also. Placed PDF's (not imported) when exported should not be changing colors. They do not in Indesign but they do in AD. This is a bug and needs to be fixed unless there is an option somewhere that I am missing.

I do understand that is the way Serif applications have been in the past but Affinity came out to change the past. PagePlus never made professional status because of this issue (I have used and test Pageplus since version 2 in the early 90's). If Affinity wants to play against Adobe, and I believe they are doing a great job, they have to have colors work right and reliable, what is specified is what you get, like Adobe.

I am not bashing Serif at all. I have bought pretty much every version they have had of everything just to support them, but this is reality in the professional world and I want them to succeed on this.

Please prioritize this or at least make the option work when someone chooses the document intent.

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13 hours ago, Bryce said:

The profiles are correct across our systems. We print every day and our main profile is US Prepress Coated v2. ...

Snipped for brevity. I do agree with some/most of the sentiments. But not all.

There is no US Prepress Coated v2 ICC profile. Not that I am aware of anyway. Perhaps you mean US Web Coated (SWOP) v2? Even so, what happens if you use the stock PDF/X-4 profile out of ID and place that resulting PDF in AD?

You should get the following:

capture-002022.png.ecf4c37b45ee878a07247f5826691d37.png

At least presuming you are using US Web Coated (SWOP) v2 in AD for the CMYK profile. But the important thing is that with the way Serif's stuff works, the AD document color profile has to be the same as was used in ID. Which means that unlike some/most other color managed applications, you cannot have placed PDFs with disparate output profiles and get the same numbers in a new pdf out of AD. Yes, this needs to be rethought/redone in at least APub, if not AD/APhoto as well.

 


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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15 hours ago, Bryce said:

The profiles are correct across our systems. We print every day and our main profile is US Prepress Coated v2.  Adobe is setup this way, Affinity is also. Placed PDF's (not imported) when exported should not be changing colors. They do not in Indesign but they do in AD.

I'm not seeing this on my system. If I use the same profile everywhere, from start to finish:

  • in AD, when creating a new file,
  • in AD, when exporting to PDF (the app uses the document profile by default)
  • on the PDF files I place into AD,
  • in Acrobat, when checking colors with the Output Preview tool,

then the colors are the same.

and one more thing: in AD only the PDF/X presets set the output intent to the document profile. The “for print” preset does not. Acrobat reads the output intent value from the PDF; if it's not present then it uses the default profile and that WILL cause a color shift if the PDF was based on a different color profile

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I meant to say US Sheetfed Coated V2 is the profile. 

In the above graphic you will see that AD says it is 0 0 0 100 but the actual output of the same file is 92 84 84 84

I can draw the arrows if that is helpful.

I did find that I can make my own colors in my own swatch and they will output correctly, just not the pre made colors in "Grey" even though they show the right CMYK value of only K when double clicked on.

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3 hours ago, Bryce said:

I meant to say US Sheetfed Coated V2 is the profile. 

In the above graphic you will see that AD says it is 0 0 0 100 but the actual output of the same file is 92 84 84 84

I can draw the arrows if that is helpful.

I did find that I can make my own colors in my own swatch and they will output correctly, just not the pre made colors in "Grey" even though they show the right CMYK value of only K when double clicked on.

My screen shot was from AD with a placed PDF from ID. Sorry if I was not clear about that.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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