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Jeff C

[Designer] Often able to draw/paint on locked layers

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This is on an iPad Pro. I usually lock the bottom-most layer as my background. And after drawing or painting a bit on new layers, I often find that Designer has shifted focus to that bottom locked layer and put my paint/drawing on it even though it's locked.

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Hi Jeff C

Is this a pixel layer? There is a general known issue across all platforms that you can still still select pixel layers that are locked. Locking a layer should only prevent selection and transform on the canvas too. You will still be able to select a locked layer on the layers panel.

Thanks


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Hi Chris, thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, this is always with pixel layers.

5 hours ago, Chris_K said:

Locking a layer should only prevent selection and transform on the canvas too.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that it is intentional that locked layers can still be edited (drawn on, painted on). Is that correct? If so, that seems like a really strange behavior for the lock feature and is the opposite of what one would expect when locking a layer.

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Thanks MEB

So the intended behavior is that you can edit a locked layer so long as you select it first in the Layer Studio? And the known-issue described above by Chris_K is what is causing me to (accidentally) select that layer and therefore edit it. Is that correct?

Without that known issue of being able to select locked pixel layers, I think it's really odd that one can edit a locked layer at all. In all other programs I've used or as long as I can remember, locking a layer protects it from edits of any kind. And while I realize that Affinity is doing a lot of things differently (which I love), I think that one is counter-intuitive and will be hard to relearn for people like myself migrating from other apps. I'm not sure I see the benefit of only locking selection and transformation and not edits.

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I'm not sure to what issue Chris is referring to in particular but yes, as long as you select a layer through the Layers panel (even if locked) you are able to edit it. It's different from how other programs work, true, but again when you do so in the Layers panel you are deliberating picking a locked layer so it's not something that will happen accidentally. This is by design.

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Ok, thanks. That deliberate selection makes a bit more sense I suppose.

The issue Chris_K is referring to (and which is apparently causing the bug I started this thread with) is that in iPad those locked layers are getting selected without deliberately selecting them in the Layers Palette. So what's happening is that I'm drawing and realize, after some time, that all of my lines are on the wrong layer - the locked layer that I did not select.

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Agreeing with owenr above. If locking a layer doesn’t completely prevent editing, then I wouldn’t consider it a lock at all. It’s actually very important to be able to protect layers like this. When painting or drawing, it’s very easy to find yourself working on the wrong layer. If you’ve done so for 30 minutes and are beyond the undo limit, the piece can be ruined.

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10 hours ago, owenr said:

It will be the ability to select a locked Pixel layer, by clicking on it with Move Tool in the document view, when it is the bottom layer of a document. I remember reporting that as a bug and you telling me that the behaviour is by design to prevent new users being perplexed if they open an image file and cannot select the layer named Background with the Move Tool. I still think it is a poor and counterintuitive design decision by the developers if it isn't really a bug. Locked should be locked with consistency, not locked with exception based on level in layer stack, in my opinion.

 

You are mixing a few different things here. By design you should be able to select any locked layer in the Layers Studio/Panel and edit its attributes (colour, stroke etc) but not move or transforming it. You shouldn't be able to select a locked layer on canvas and as a consequence nor its attributes because the layer never becomes selected. 

The pixel background layer (bottom layer) is an exception - it's the only one that when you click on it on canvas displays the bounding box handles as "X"s. If you do the same with another pixel layer in any other position on the layer's stack than on bottom it will do nothing/not react at all. We display the bounding box handles as "X"s on the bottom layer when selected on canvas because when you open a single image there's only one pixel layer and if we didn't do it and a new user clicked on it on canvas with the Move Tool there would be no reaction from the application (as happens with other pixels layer located on other positions other than the bottom when they are locked) possibly leaving the user confused about why the program isn't doing anything (did it freeze? is unresponsive?) - i've suggested to display a warning message as Photoshop does but this wasn't implemented -- so we display the bounding box handles as "X"s to give the user a hint that the layer is locked.

The issue/bug here is if we click on the bottom pixel layer (on the canvas), change to the Paint Brush Tool for example and start painting immediately on canvas it still changes/paints on the (bottom) locked pixel layer - this shouldn't be happening at all. It should start painting on a new pixel layer. This doesn't happen with other locked pixel layers in other positions other than the bottom because you are never able to select them on canvas in first place.

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1 hour ago, owenr said:

I'm not mixing things. You've confirmed exactly what I wrote: locked Pixel layers cannot be selected by Move Tool in the document view except when it is the bottom layer of a document, and that selection is allowed because someone thinks new users would be confused otherwise. Go back and look at what I quoted at the start of my post to give context to my post: it was regarding selection and not painting.

I didn't say they can be selected when they are on the bottom, i said they exceptionally display the the "X" on the bounding box handles for the reasons explained regarding new users. Unfortunately because of this they seem to become active as if they were selected from the Layers panel but this is not really intended. The issue is Affinity should be creating a new pixel layer in case you have used raster based tools rather than change/edit the locked layer.

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I understand why you are saying it's selected when you click on it on canvas but it's not intended to be "active" as if you picked/selected it from the Layers Studio - only display the "X"s as bounding box handles. That's the difference (bug) i'm trying to explain/point out. Not sure why that attitude but ok.

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34 minutes ago, owenr said:

To clarify: my point was not that the lock shouldn't allow editing after an object is selected (by using the Layers panel). I was saying that a lock which doesn't allow selection by the Move Tool in the view should behave consistently instead of making an exception for the specific case of a Pixel layer at the very bottom of the stack.

I think it would be less confusing all around if the lock only prevented movement, rotation or scaling, not selection on the canvas. Then we would be able to select and unlock an object without having to go to the Layers panel.

31 minutes ago, MEB said:

The issue is Affinity should be creating a new pixel layer in case you use raster based tools rather than change/edit the locked layer.

 The issue is that there shouldn’t be exceptions for any special cases.


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.1.404 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.1.143 • Designer for iPad 1.7.1.1 • iOS 12.4 (iPad Air 2)

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10 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

I think it would be less confusing all around if the lock only prevented movement, rotation or scaling, not selection on the canvas. Then we would be able to select and unlock an object without having to go to the Layers panel.

 The issue is that there shouldn’t be exceptions for any special cases.

Hi Alfred,
Chris_K already opened this issue with development so it will be looked at again.

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Thanks for your time on this, MEB.

For others reading this thread later, I think a workaround for now seems to be turning off "Edit All Layers" in the menu within the Layers palette. So far, that seems to help prevent accidentally selecting the bottom, locked, layer while drawing.

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Umm, how do I turn off "Edit All Layers"? There is a stacked icon at bottom left of the Layers panel - when clicked on it does not seem to change.         

And just to pile on - I also feel that "locked" should mean "locked in location, in color, in nodes..." - pretty much how Adobe Illustrator does it.

newbie / 2013 iMac running 10.12.6

 

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On 7/26/2018 at 5:40 AM, αℓƒяє∂ said:

I think it would be less confusing all around if the lock only prevented movement, rotation or scaling, not selection on the canvas. Then we would be able to select and unlock an object without having to go to the Layers panel.

Personally, I would be very unhappy if we could select locked layers on the canvas because I lock layers (on both the desktop & iPad apps) specifically to prevent that. This is very useful when drawing out a marquee selection or drilling down into a group to select child layers I want to move, rotate or whatever without worrying about selecting any locked layers.


Affinity Photo 1.7.2, Affinity Designer 1.7.2, Affinity Publisher 1.7.2; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.153 & Affinity Designer 1.7.2.6 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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53 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Personally, I would be very unhappy if we could select locked layers on the canvas because I lock layers (on both the desktop & iPad apps) specifically to prevent that. This is very useful when drawing out a marquee selection or drilling down into a group to select child layers I want to move, rotate or whatever without worrying about selecting any locked layers.

That’s a good point. I obviously hadn’t thought of that scenario.

As with so many of these things, we need more options so that the behaviour can be modified to best suit a particular use case.


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.1.404 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.1.143 • Designer for iPad 1.7.1.1 • iOS 12.4 (iPad Air 2)

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8 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

As with so many of these things, we need more options so that the behaviour can be modified to best suit a particular use case.

More options are generally a good thing but how best to implement them can become quite problematic on the limited screen space of an iPad screen. If it ends up requiring the same or more than the number of taps to access the option than whatever method we have now to do the same thing, then it probably is not worth the extra complication, at least IMO.


Affinity Photo 1.7.2, Affinity Designer 1.7.2, Affinity Publisher 1.7.2; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.153 & Affinity Designer 1.7.2.6 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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