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Which proves exactly ... what ?

That the power be with them finally ?

That there is now light in the empire of the dark ?

No, it just proves that they assume there is money to be made. But I do not think you should compare the business model or the resources of Microsoft with those of Serif. MS can sink more money into abandoned projects (in fact they have done so in the past and continue to do so) than Serif is ever going to make with their range of products.

One is gambling because out of enough bets something will return, and the other needs to stay focused.

My position is not that I would dislike a Linux client. But I believe it would damage all Affinity software released up to date, because it is obvious there is a lot to do before moving on. Just follow the forum and make a search for words like „crash“ to see what is going on. Far too many posts out of far too many reasons. To fix this one needs all hands on deck, not  having valuable developers fooling around with yet another project.

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1 hour ago, Blende21 said:

MS can sink more money into abandoned projects than Serif is ever going to make with their range of products.

one needs all hands on deck, not  having valuable developers fooling around with yet another project.

These are some really strong arguments.

Remember that time when Serif told us that the Affinity product cores are platform independent already? Clearly they anticipated going multi-platform with their GUI back when they were Mac only.

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7 hours ago, wonderings said:

Marketshare can be a good tool to see in which direction people are headed.

NetMarketShare showed growth for Linux as a platform on the desktop month over month since April of this year. This should be more valuable than Steam considering not everyone who would want to use this kind of software would be gamers. Steam is way too narrow of a metric to use as a decision source alone.

7 hours ago, wonderings said:

Any business after 7 years should be seeing growth.

Linux is not a business. It is a term to describe a platform that consists of many businesses including Canonical (makes Ubuntu), SUSE (makes SLE & openSUSE) and Red Hat (makes RHEL & Fedora). These companies are growing every year with Red Hat being a multi-billion dollar company that was acquired by IBM last year for $34 Billion. Linux is growing in every aspect. The problem with Linux is that its confusing to keep track of because there are multiple variables for everything.

7 hours ago, wonderings said:

There can be dips of course and maybe that is all there is to it with Linux gaming, but this is not a business for the end user but a platform for gaming and if they are either moving away because of a smaller catalogue or not enjoying the experience on Linux, then it is a bad sign.

This is a poor point because most companies arent even trying it and thus most users aren't trying it. As I said, this is a Catch-22. There are many people who have never heard of Linux even though Linux dominates every facet of computing outside of the Desktop. The fact that Linux doesn't have a marketing team, because it isnt a company, is a problem. When there are advocates for it they are met with dismissal.

7 hours ago, wonderings said:

The question I would have though comes to support. Sure the Affinity suite is going to work on all distros now (assuming it was developed using these universal formats), but will different issues arise based on the users distro of choice? Is Serif going to have to still support a variety of distros logging and dealing with issues that could arise?

Snaps & Flatpaks are retrieved from separate stores but they each have one store. Snap Store & the FlatHub eliminate a lot of the headaches of app distribution on Linux these days. You simply make the software work with the formats and the runtimes that power the formats. In the case of Snaps, support for Snaps as a format is managed by Canonical who makes Snaps. Developers of Snap Apps don't have to worry about if it works on a given distro, it either does or it doesnt. If it doesnt then triage can be sent to either the Distro Developers that implemented Snaps or Canonical to either solve the problem with you or for you.

-------------

3 hours ago, Blende21 said:

This is where the Linux market is found, and probably where development hours (and money) goes.

The Linux market is everything outside of the desktop. Linux either has a majority on everything else or a dominance. The development hours in Linux are spread around because it is thousands of people and hundreds of companies involved including all of the giant companies . . . even Microsoft and Apple contribute to Linux.

3 hours ago, Blende21 said:

Sorry, penguin lovers, but I do not think this business case will ever fly.

Thankfully, I don't think you make their business decisions so that's good.

3 hours ago, Blende21 said:

it just proves that they assume there is money to be made

There are companies in the $Billions level that rely on Linux and Red Hat is even an example of a company exclusive to Linux based products that is worth $Billions. There is money to be made, there is no assumption. Microsoft is doing a sneaky play of trying to play both sides in order to cash in regardless which is smart.

3 hours ago, Blende21 said:

Just follow the forum and make a search for words like „crash“ to see what is going on. Far too many posts out of far too many reasons. To fix this one needs all hands on deck, not  having valuable developers fooling around with yet another project.

This is self-defeating development logic. There will always be bugs and there will always be crashes. This is the nature of software because nothing can be perfect while things change. If any variable involved changes like hardware, version of an OS, libraries of an OS, etc then bugs can be introduced even if the software itself didn't change after reaching "crash-free" status. Windows changes every week to some degree which can create issues and Microsoft has proven they will even delete people's files at random due to their lack of QA.

If a company only focused on bug fixes and crash fixing then that company would never innovate or grow. You talk about Linux being a bad business decision yet you also want them to have all hands on deck working on something that is impossible to achieve rather than driving forward with features, improvements and other value. Of course Bug Squashing is important but its never an all hands on deck scenario because that means 1. the company is managed poorly or 2. they are dealing with a catastrophic failure.

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17 hours ago, Blende21 said:

Sorry, penguin lovers, but I do not think this business case will ever fly.

I see what you did there. [smiley face emoticon]


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.6

Affinity Designer 1.8.4 | Affinity Photo 1.8.4 | Affinity Publisher 1.8.4 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.9.0.2 | Affinity Photo Beta 1.9.0.199 | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.9.0.742

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4 hours ago, fasilend said:

Would it work through WINE or something similar, would that be any cheaper?

This is currently our only hope, as the Affinity team will not work on a Linux version for at least this major release cycle of the suite.

However, currently a WINE version does not work. With some hacks you can get the app running, but it will crash as soon as the art board is initialized. The OpenGL or Direct3D initialization (I forgot which one is used in the latest version) has some unmapped functions that causes the crash AFAIK.

What we do know from recent experience with WINE and Proton is that - unlike running a VM - WINE performance could be similar to a native Windows version.

We should have a FAQ for this topic, because most questions have been answered now. All we can do is wait for some WINE or Proton devs to figure out what functions to map to WINE libraries, or start a crowdfund to pay a WINE dev to do so.

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On 9/29/2014 at 12:17 PM, Andy Somerfield said:

 

I'll add this to the conversation (if this is an add - it's a looooong topic and I didn't read it all).

I come from a background in film and television post. Mac is the platform for managers, Linux is the platform for most artists. The notion that 'Linux people don't pay' is false - they pay $1K+ per year for Maya, Resolve, Unity, Fusion, Houdini and Nuke. Linux has a professional version of every type of creative application with the exception of photo editing and print design - the two areas Affinity serves. It can also go from design to code to delivery in a way no other OS can (code is creative!!).

I'll add another point as someone who has worked in film, commercial production, and interactive design - Windows is challenging. It's inconsistent. You're never certain what you're looking at. Type changes size. It renders differently in different applications. There is a reason why people in visual arts are always wanting to move to another OS. 

Macs are great, but prices are astronomical and their need for perfectly reflective monitors is bizarre. We shouldn't have to spend $5K on a machine, and then another $15K renovating our home office so there are no visible reflections.

Linux provides a clean & consistent experience, it's extremely stable, there are great distros, and there is an ability to tailor your setup to your needs. Best of both worlds (if we can have the same tools). 

Is it possible to partner with someone like System76 or ElementaryOS to build and sell machine/OS combos? Maybe companies like The Foundry and Blackmagic? You could work together to drive people to the platform. I can't estimate the size of the opportunity, but it could be big. As others have said, it offers a chance to do something competitors do not do, and creates a potential wedge in an important, but under-served, market - professional creatives. Imagine if you could turn film and commercial production from Mac to Linux. That seems like a good idea. Heck, I'd even pay a fee for cloud services, and i already own licenses for every OS.

If you build it, they will come...

 

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On 9/7/2020 at 2:59 PM, Redsandro said:

This is currently our only hope, as the Affinity team will not work on a Linux version for at least this major release cycle of the suite.

However, currently a WINE version does not work. With some hacks you can get the app running, but it will crash as soon as the art board is initialized. The OpenGL or Direct3D initialization (I forgot which one is used in the latest version) has some unmapped functions that causes the crash AFAIK.

What we do know from recent experience with WINE and Proton is that - unlike running a VM - WINE performance could be similar to a native Windows version.

We should have a FAQ for this topic, because most questions have been answered now. All we can do is wait for some WINE or Proton devs to figure out what functions to map to WINE libraries, or start a crowdfund to pay a WINE dev to do so.

Your best option there is probably to contact CodeWeavers, the company that produces CrossOver (tl;dr commercial Wine), and ask what them what the state of progress is on the Affinity software range. They have a specific Contact CodeWeavers option on their website.

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Dear Affinity team
Dear Affinity users here in the forum

I think the time is right for commercial developers like you guys to think about the professional user of the future. A user that may love macOS for its polished UI and ecosystem, but realises that an open source operating system like Linux better fits with their ideology and world view than Apple's closed source "profit first" approach. I do not try to bash Apple here. I also don't want to exclude Windows users, but I don't know many Windows users personally, so I really can't judge what they might want. The kind of user I am referring to might already have installed a modern Linux distribution like Manjaro out of curiosity (and because they feel the desire to move to a platform that they feel they would like to support more) and test ran a couple of apps on it. This kind of user may have come to the conclusion that Linux has actually come a long way and is not that far away from macOS in many respects (and even much ahead of it in some areas).

I count myself to this type of professional user. I have at least 10 friends and work colleagues who think alike. They are mostly web developers and use Linux as their daily drivers already. They use open source software and for special needs, like development IDEs, they have forward thinking vendors like JetBrains in their backs who provide them with their cutting edge IDEs and tools for Linux already.

For me it is not so easy however, because I am more of a broadly diversified kind of power user who relies not only on open source fundamentals and development IDEs, but also on music production tools like Bitwig Studio (available for Linux!) and Davinci Resolve (available for Linux as well!), just to name a few of my favourites. :) Naturally, in the music and video creation field plugins and extensions are a big part of whats installed on my Macs these days and for this, the market on Linux is actually still quite thin. But there as well, some manufacturers are not forgetting Linux (u-he comes to mind, with their flagship audio plugins amongst others) and so there's a couple of interesting offers available there already as well.

To cut a long story short. I made a list of all the apps I am using on macOS today and found/test ran viable alternatives for Linux in many cases (some of them open source, some closed source). Really, the only thing that I could not (and do not want) to replace is Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo!

Me and my friends would buy licenses of those apps for Linux in the blink of an eye.

That's all I wanted to say. :)

Thanks for making Designer, Photo and Publisher), which I bought a license but have not yet used too often! <3

All the best

Amadeus

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22 hours ago, Amadeus Paulussen said:

Dear Affinity team
Dear Affinity users here in the forum

I think the time is right for commercial developers like you guys to think about the professional user of the future. A user that may love macOS for its polished UI and ecosystem, but realises that an open source operating system like Linux better fits with their ideology and world view than Apple's closed source "profit first" approach. I do not try to bash Apple here. I also don't want to exclude Windows users, but I don't know many Windows users personally, so I really can't judge what they might want. The kind of user I am referring to might already have installed a modern Linux distribution like Manjaro out of curiosity (and because they feel the desire to move to a platform that they feel they would like to support more) and test ran a couple of apps on it. This kind of user may have come to the conclusion that Linux has actually come a long way and is not that far away from macOS in many respects (and even much ahead of it in some areas).

I count myself to this type of professional user. I have at least 10 friends and work colleagues who think alike. They are mostly web developers and use Linux as their daily drivers already. They use open source software and for special needs, like development IDEs, they have forward thinking vendors like JetBrains in their backs who provide them with their cutting edge IDEs and tools for Linux already.

For me it is not so easy however, because I am more of a broadly diversified kind of power user who relies not only on open source fundamentals and development IDEs, but also on music production tools like Bitwig Studio (available for Linux!) and Davinci Resolve (available for Linux as well!), just to name a few of my favourites. :) Naturally, in the music and video creation field plugins and extensions are a big part of whats installed on my Macs these days and for this, the market on Linux is actually still quite thin. But there as well, some manufacturers are not forgetting Linux (u-he comes to mind, with their flagship audio plugins amongst others) and so there's a couple of interesting offers available there already as well.

To cut a long story short. I made a list of all the apps I am using on macOS today and found/test ran viable alternatives for Linux in many cases (some of them open source, some closed source). Really, the only thing that I could not (and do not want) to replace is Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo!

Me and my friends would buy licenses of those apps for Linux in the blink of an eye.

That's all I wanted to say. :)

Thanks for making Designer, Photo and Publisher), which I bought a license but have not yet used too often! ❤️

All the best

Amadeus

I am afraid that Serif Affinity staff have made it very clear a number of times that there will not be any port over to Linux because it's not economical to do so given the small desktop market share that Linux has.

If you're after alternatives to Affinity Designer then try out Gravit, Inkscape, Vectr and for Affinity Photo replacements try out Pixeluvo, Krita, Fotoxx, PhotoLine with Wine or the online + electron app Photopea.

 

 

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On 9/25/2020 at 4:33 PM, Snapseed said:

I am afraid that Serif Affinity staff have made it very clear a number of times that there will not be any port over to Linux because it's not economical to do so given the small desktop market share that Linux has.

Not going to stop people (including me!) from waving their hand and suggesting it. Because if nobody does, nobody will ever know we wanted it. Heck, I signed up for this forum account to add my name to the pile.

Hey, you guys ever thought of porting your software to Linux? 🤣

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+1 Affinity for Linux. However, I do understand that natively rewriting and supporting the code on Linux could be a pain (although Black Magic figured it out with Da Vinci Resolve), I'll even take a little nudge in getting Affinity to run on WINE. If the experience feels seamless (like steam games running on proton) that would be fine by me. I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper to get the software running in WINE. We are actually already pretty close,

Only problem here is, we can't seem to Save or Open files, a pretty big problem, however for Affinity who has the source code and knows their software, potentially a pretty easy fix.

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1 hour ago, LinuxHG said:

+1 Affinity for Linux. However, I do understand that natively rewriting and supporting the code on Linux could be a pain (although Black Magic figured it out with Da Vinci Resolve), I'll even take a little nudge in getting Affinity to run on WINE. If the experience feels seamless (like steam games running on proton) that would be fine by me. I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper to get the software running in WINE. We are actually already pretty close,

Only problem here is, we can't seem to Save or Open files, a pretty big problem, however for Affinity who has the source code and knows their software, potentially a pretty easy fix.

I think the Windows version uses DirectX for graphics. The macOS version uses either OpenGL or Metal. I always write my software with OpenGL for cross compatibility and if that's what they used for the Mac version, then it should be pretty easy to port it over. I'm hoping the code base between both operating systems are already shared meaning there's code that looks like this:

    #ifdef MAC
    doMacThing()
    #elseif WINDOWS
    doWindowsThing()
    #endif

However, if they used the Metal API on macOS, they'd have to port graphics code including shader code over to OpenGL (which is what they should be using anyway...)

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I just checked on Mac and it uses OpenGL! by default! It has support for Metal too probably to keep up to date with Apple since they're deprecating OpenGL which is a terrible move of them. If Affinity Designer was open-source, id be more than happy to port it over. This was the first time I touched the program in over a year and I miss it so damn much.

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2 hours ago, Makitsune said:

I think the Windows version uses DirectX for graphics. The macOS version uses either OpenGL or Metal. I always write my software with OpenGL for cross compatibility and if that's what they used for the Mac version, then it should be pretty easy to port it over. I'm hoping the code base between both operating systems are already shared meaning there's code that looks like this:

    #ifdef MAC
    doMacThing()
    #elseif WINDOWS
    doWindowsThing()
    #endif

However, if they used the Metal API on macOS, they'd have to port graphics code including shader code over to OpenGL (which is what they should be using anyway...)

From what I've read here over the years, it doesn't seem that they were concerned much with portability, preferring instead to tailor each version to their host platform as tightly as possible to maximize performance. Having to rewrite a chunk of their code for Linux is the major reason why we don't have a rev for it now.

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12 hours ago, Renzatic said:

From what I've read here over the years, it doesn't seem that they were concerned much with portability, preferring instead to tailor each version to their host platform as tightly as possible to maximize performance.

I have a slightly different impression. They have mentioned a couple of times that the core of the software is actually already multiplatform. They "only" have to develop the GUI. The GUI is tightly tailored to the operating system for usability and aesthetic purposes. So while your end conclusion is the same, it's not about performance, but about usability.

In theory they could write a rough ugly Qt or GTK+ interface for Linux and be done; the core is already done. But like every commercial party, they know the power of aesthetics and usability. An ugly hard to use interface makes the product looks 10 times worse, even if the core is equally powerful (read: identical).

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12 hours ago, Redsandro said:

I have a slightly different impression. They have mentioned a couple of times that the core of the software is actually already multiplatform. They "only" have to develop the GUI. The GUI is tightly tailored to the operating system for usability and aesthetic purposes. So while your end conclusion is the same, it's not about performance, but about usability.

In theory they could write a rough ugly Qt or GTK+ interface for Linux and be done; the core is already done. But like every commercial party, they know the power of aesthetics and usability. An ugly hard to use interface makes the product looks 10 times worse, even if the core is equally powerful (read: identical).

They probably have to rewrite bits and pieces of the rendering code as well, to target OS specific graphics APIs and whatnot.

I don't know how difficult this is to do, since I'm talking well beyond my expertise here, but I imagine it's somewhat involved.

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I'd like to add my voice: The only things not working on linux are the Microsoft and Adobe suites. It would help Affinity immensely at getting more popular than Adobe if they made usable software for all platforms.

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