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Affinity for Linux


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Hi, I'm in the process to move from Mac to Linux. I almost have all what I need and I'm seening theses days (2020) Mac is no more needed, at least in my case.

I've tracked Affinity software is the only software I needed to move completely from Mac.

so hope this could be done. I expect Linux will be increasing in the upcoming years as people see that Windows and Mac is no more needed, in the same way people saw that Adobe software is no more needed.

Hope this response makes another grain of sand to make it be considered :)

I'll be buying Linux versions of three Affinity solutions as well to support it.

Thanks

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Hi @carlosrovira May I thank you for your grain of sand. Love it! 🥰

As I have probably said before I think using Affinity under wine in Linux will get to a solution for us Linux users first. So respect for @iambrad_au  Brad you can hold on to your super generous offer a little longer. I am as you may know a huge Serif fan from Win3.1 and Win95 days and still use Serif regularly.

I have to smile and sometimes laugh out loud as iOS is based on Linux as is Android OS. However it gets quite hilarious with the news that Win10 is to be replaced by Linux kernel and Msoft employ that overrated Linux guy. Reliability Issues not to mention security and privacy issues! 🤭

I have no idea to what you use or at what level you use software but I use Serif PhotoPlus and PagePlus under wine within Linux distros ubuntu 16.04 LTS but mostly under Trisquel now as I like the ethos, reliability and simplicity - right out of the box.

Come on you wine developers – wish I had the skills to help out – but please accept my deepest respect for the work you are doing now and in the past as I would not be able to use Serif PhotoPlus and PagePlus today here in Derby UK – so near to Serif yet so far away from software.

Crazy World 🤪 – Stay Safe All.

 

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On 4/26/2020 at 12:54 AM, ashf said:

and has no interest

Pity there are no public shareholder meetings? Yes I looked - Yes I looked at the company listed graphs sliding inexorably downwards as far as I could see.

Reminds me of the time when the cream of our vehicle industry were invited to Germany at the end of WW2 and were offered VW on a plate. NO. NO. No we do not want that rubbish (Porsche design) and returned home with a little two stroke. Nothing changes 🤨

ps. this was why design engineers departed Great Britain for the good life all around the World and became part of the Jet-Set. Me too!

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55 minutes ago, Andy2 said:

Pity there are no public shareholder meetings?

Why would there be? Serif is privately owned.

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows 1.10 • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.10 • Designer for iPad 1.10 • iPadOS 15.6.1 (iPad Air 2)

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1 hour ago, Andy2 said:

I have to smile and sometimes laugh out loud as iOS is based on Linux as is Android OS. However it gets quite hilarious with the news that Win10 is to be replaced by Linux kernel and Msoft employ that overrated Linux guy. Reliability Issues not to mention security and privacy issues!

iOS is not based on Linux, it's based on Darwin, a Unix-like OS from Apple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system))

Windows 10 is not going to be replaced with a Linux kernel, it ships with a Linux kernel for developers to use (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux)

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8 minutes ago, Requester said:

Another idea. Why don't we just ask the Wine developers for how much for a kickstart campaign they would integrate support for Affinity products?

Who wants that? We need native software. We are talking about software for professionals, not about games.

You can ask companies or other organizations, who want to grow Linux, if they want to sponsor Affinity Linux versions.

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4 hours ago, Mark Ingram said:

iOS is not based on Linux, it's based on Darwin, a Unix-like OS from Apple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system))

Windows 10 is not going to be replaced with a Linux kernel, it ships with a Linux kernel for developers to use (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux)

That my be correct but Linux had the so called "App" feature before Jobs created the iPhone, as I understand it. Therefor all "SMART" device are based on the linux model. Its not important how created what when, just that we would like Affinity to get ported to linux!

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21 minutes ago, j0e.org said:

Who wants that? We need native software. We are talking about software for professionals, not about games.

You can ask companies or other organizations, who want to grow Linux, if they want to sponsor Affinity Linux versions.

No one would take a WINE app over a native app, but affinity won't make the app nor do they seem open to ironing out the wine incompatibilities, so the logical solution is to ask the other side, WINE, to do it. Also you're just reiterating the same points that have been raised in the past pages. Have a read through the thread before repeating points. For starters, Serif has said they are against kickstarters, so by extension they are against sponsorships.

Mădălin Vlad
Graphic Designer
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14 hours ago, MeatRadiator said:

That my be correct but Linux had the so called "App" feature before Jobs created the iPhone, as I understand it. Therefor all "SMART" device are based on the linux model. Its not important how created what when, just that we would like Affinity to get ported to linux!

You've just switched argument there - originally poster claimed iOS was based on Linux - I said it's not. Now you're saying that it's based on the "Linux model". There is no "Linux Model". They support package managers as a method of installation, if that's what you're referring to - as do many other operating systems and development frameworks.

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2 hours ago, Dradis said:

So Serrif, if you're listening, the following Linus Tech youtube video has over 2 million views and over 100K likes.   Just sayin...

Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid - Noob's Guide to Linux Gaming

This is a long thread, and I've commented on it before. For us to develop a Linux version, we need to cover our costs - at the absolute minimum - and that includes any lost opportunity from spending development time on Linux, rather than new features or products for existing platforms. Unfortunately that figure keeps growing, in line with the expanding customer base on existing platforms. The fact is, there aren't enough potential customers on the Linux platform to justify the development work.

Taking Steam as an example, which is what Linus Tech was using in the video, here are the latest stats for their users (the top OS for each platform):

Windows 10 64 bit - 86.08%

macOS 10.14.6 64 bit - 0.90%

Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS 64 bit - 0.18%

Those numbers make Linux statistically irrelevant.

According to Desktop browser statistics from September 2019 (NetMarketShare):

Windows - 87.76%

macOS - 9.61%

Linux - 2.06%

A bit better for web browsing purposes, but we're not a web browser, we're a paid professional product vs a free pre-installed user product. 

And I say all that as a long time Linux user. I first started with SUSE Linux over 20 years ago, and am currently running Ubuntu on one my laptops.

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@Mark Ingram thank you for replying, even though you're restating what you stated before. It is appreciated to hear the current perspective and intention "renewed" with a fresh reply.

I think it's a gamble, as some people believe that the Linux market share/demand is merely artificially small because the product/supply is not there. The wish to transition to Linux is, though, for reasons.

You think it's not worth your while, and that's fair. It's interesting to keep an eye on Steam, because they seem to take the opposing end of the gamble, and invest a lot of time and money into developing on Linux. I don't think they are idiots. But I do understand they have a bigger budget to take risks.

In that sense, I disagree with your notion that "the fact is". In stead, I'd rather say that you "need to follow the current market statistics rather than speculate on the size of the potential market" (demand) that is desperately waiting for your (or a competitor's) product (supply) as evidenced by 25 pages of testimony here, "for security reasons."

Because the latter has the benefit of being closer to the truth, and won't alienate your 25 pages of Linux users that have been trying to convince you that it is, in fact, not a fact, for the past 4 years.

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25 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

You think it's not worth your while, and that's fair. It's interesting to keep an eye on Steam, because they seem to take the opposing end of the gamble, and invest a lot of time and money into developing on Linux.

They originally started the Linux project because they feared Windows 8 would require apps (and games) to be installed via the Microsoft store. i.e. that the Steam store would be prevented. As their whole business model depends on that method of distribution, they were right to dedicate vast resources to bringing a Linux product to market. Compare that to now, where they know that Steam works perfectly fine on Windows 10, and that it's no risk to them - what are they doing for Linux now?

30 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

some people believe that the Linux market share/demand is merely artificially small because the product/supply is not there

Absolutely. There's not many users (of desktop) because the products aren't there, and the products aren't there because there aren't many users. 

The interesting question is - if the products were supplied, and market share grew, where would the market share grow from? From brand new customers who had never used a computer before? That's good for us, as we can get the money back. But if the larger share came from people transitioning from Windows or macOS, well, they could have bought it on those platforms already, and it wouldn't have cost us millions of dollars and years of work to get to that point. The facts is, Linux isn't a user friendly desktop. You can't expect new users fresh out of school or university to get a brand new computer running Linux and be happy with it. It's not a "low maintenance" experience, I know from experience.

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1 hour ago, Mark Ingram said:

This is a long thread, and I've commented on it before. For us to develop a Linux version, we need to cover our costs - at the absolute minimum - and that includes any lost opportunity from spending development time on Linux, rather than new features or products for existing platforms. Unfortunately that figure keeps growing, in line with the expanding customer base on existing platforms. The fact is, there aren't enough potential customers on the Linux platform to justify the development work.

Taking Steam as an example, which is what Linus Tech was using in the video, here are the latest stats for their users (the top OS for each platform):

Windows 10 64 bit - 86.08%

macOS 10.14.6 64 bit - 0.90%

Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS 64 bit - 0.18%

Those numbers make Linux statistically irrelevant.

According to Desktop browser statistics from September 2019 (NetMarketShare):

Windows - 87.76%

macOS - 9.61%

Linux - 2.06%

A bit better for web browsing purposes, but we're not a web browser, we're a paid professional product vs a free pre-installed user product. 

And I say all that as a long time Linux user. I first started with SUSE Linux over 20 years ago, and am currently running Ubuntu on one my laptops.

I have loosely followed this thread and that was my thought as well, Linux is bottom of the barrel when it comes to users. Would take a fair bit of work and capital needing to support another OS that realistically is not going to have all that many users. People can be "passionate" about their OS, I remember the Mac vs PC age, which is thankfully not that much of a thing anymore. If you are working with graphics professionally you are going to use an OS that works with the software you want/need to use, not the other way around. If Adobe was only on PC, I would be using PC as Adobe is the standard. Would it be nice to have Affinity working on Linux? Sure, the more options the better. But it is obviously not at a point where it is realistic. I think if there was a market there to make some money Adobe would be in it.

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1 hour ago, Mark Ingram said:

Compare that to now, where they know that Steam works perfectly fine on Windows 10, and that it's no risk to them - what are they doing for Linux now?

@Mark Ingram You don't consider Proton a huge leap forward, or didn't know how actively it's being developed?

  1. Last new Steam feature for Linux I saw was creating secure isolation (sandbox) containers with different environments for different games.
  2. They've recently created Game Scopes so games are now more freely separated from the system video settings
  3. But most importantly, Proton is very actively being developed and version 5.0 was released last month.
    Quote

    Why is this a big deal? The Linux desktop experience has improved by leaps and bounds in the last year or two. Most of what you may be used to on Windows or MacOS is possible on Linux without having to tinker too much

     

  4. Valve partnered with CodeWeavers to work on WINE.
    Quote

    the company’s collective work and collaboration with Valve resulted in a massive leap forward in Linux gaming

    This is now (2018-2020). Not 2012.

Quote

You can't expect new users fresh out of school or university to get a brand new computer running Linux and be happy with it. It's not a "low maintenance" experience, I know from experience.

This empirical evidence is pretty out of date. There is this very popular friendly Pop!_OS that comes pre-installed with System76 laptops. Exclusively. It is the new old Apple; I see people that want to be cool with a System76 laptop in the coworking space. On a manual (re)install, it even has native Nvidia graphics drivers running in the installer. Not even Windows 10 does that. A more vanilla Ubuntu comes preinstalled on Dell XPS laptops. Ubuntu 20.04 is the latest LTS release, released just one week ago. They have begun rolling out the Snap store, an online software center. Installing Pop!_OS or Ubuntu is now arguably easier than installing Windows, but definitely faster.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to develop on Linux or anything, although perhaps I'm trying to bring your perception up to date a bit. 

What I would very much like to convey though, is this message from CodeWeavers (from the above article):

Quote

The world I’d love to live in is [a world where we have] all developers testing on Wine during the development process.

It's been asked a few times but - as far as I know - not really addressed: Can you - or why can't you - work around the things that break WINE? It's not like Windows apps can't be performant without breaking WINE, as evidenced by the WINE games that run faster under WINE than native Windows. It might consist - we don't know because it wasn't addressed - of something trivial that would make a lot of owners of a Affinity Windows license happy at the cost of very few development hours.

They might not bring you new income, but once word gets out that a latest version runs well, more Linux users will buy Windows licenses.

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It's more complicated that just "testing on WINE" during development. Do we train up all devs to learn how to use Linux? Do we purchase new machines to use? Do we train up the QA and tech support teams? What about marketing, or offering support when there are inevitable problems when customers run it on WINE? 

Also, I don't believe it's our responsibility to ensure that WINE works, that's the responsibility of the WINE developers (if the Affinity applications work on Windows, then they should work on WINE). 

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Quote

It's more complicated that just "testing on WINE" during development.

I agree.

Quote

Do we train up all devs to learn how to use Linux?

Yes, but don't fret.  It's not that hard.  We're nearly 100% Linux on desktops in our studio.  We put Linux newbies on desktops all the time.  They have absolutely no problem being productive right away.  Linux is fantastic for developers in our environment, so they never have a problem.

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Do we purchase new machines to use?

If you want to.  You don't have to.  Most distros will multi-boot just fine on the machines you already have.

Quote

Do we train up the QA and tech support teams?

Yes, of course.

Quote

What about marketing, or offering support when there are inevitable problems when customers run it on WINE? 

You're already paying for marketing, right?  Just add "*now available for Linux" to all your marketing material.  Done.  I'd wager that you would get a staggering amount of free publicity all over the place if you announced a proper Linux version.  In the VFX industry, the news would surely spread like wildfire.  I know that many of my colleagues would be very excited.

Don't run it on wine.

Quote

Also, I don't believe it's our responsibility to ensure that WINE works, that's the responsibility of the WINE developers (if the Affinity applications work on Windows, then they should work on WINE). 

You're absolutely correct.  Getting running (and keeping it running) in Wine is not and should not be your problem.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm willing to pay for a proper Linux version, only.  I would buy 10 copies minimum, but it's probable that everyone in the studio would be crying for it once they became aware that it exists.  That would mean having to buy about 50 copies.  I'm willing to pay more for a Linux version than for the Windows version.  I'd still happily buy up to 50 licenses even if you charged 4-5 times the normal amount for a Linux version.  Just don't tell my CFO I said that.

 

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5 minutes ago, justajeffy said:

I agree.

Yes, but don't fret.  It's not that hard.  We're nearly 100% Linux on desktops in our studio.  We put Linux newbies on desktops all the time.  They have absolutely no problem being productive right away.  Linux is fantastic for developers in our environment, so they never have a problem.

If you want to.  You don't have to.  Most distros will multi-boot just fine on the machines you already have.

Yes, of course.

You're already paying for marketing, right?  Just add "*now available for Linux" to all your marketing material.  Done.  I'd wager that you would get a staggering amount of free publicity all over the place if you announced a proper Linux version.  In the VFX industry, the news would surely spread like wildfire.  I know that many of my colleagues would be very excited.

Don't run it on wine.

You're absolutely correct.  Getting running (and keeping it running) in Wine is not and should not be your problem.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm willing to pay for a proper Linux version, only.  I would buy 10 copies minimum, but it's probable that everyone in the studio would be crying for it once they became aware that it exists.  That would mean having to buy about 50 copies.  I'm willing to pay more for a Linux version than for the Windows version.  I'd still happily buy up to 50 licenses even if you charged 4-5 times the normal amount for a Linux version.  Just don't tell my CFO I said that.

 

It is money though, money into training, money into IT and getting Linux setup, money on new support. All this for what kind of return? I seriously doubt all the Linux users would be happy to pay more then their Windows and Mac counterparts. It all sounds so easy, but it is not that simple. They are a business, they are in it to make money. They are also trying to advance their product. Look at the feature requests and things that people are wanting added to be a legit replacement for Adobe CC. Now on top of that people want efforts put into another OS that has a significantly smaller user base and of that small user base an even smaller number of people are going to be wanting/needing Affinity software. 

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1 minute ago, wonderings said:

It is money though, money into training, money into IT and getting Linux setup, money on new support. All this for what kind of return? I seriously doubt all the Linux users would be happy to pay more then their Windows and Mac counterparts. It all sounds so easy, but it is not that simple. They are a business, they are in it to make money. They are also trying to advance their product. Look at the feature requests and things that people are wanting added to be a legit replacement for Adobe CC. Now on top of that people want efforts put into another OS that has a significantly smaller user base and of that small user base an even smaller number of people are going to be wanting/needing Affinity software. 

Profit is never guaranteed.  Much like it wasn't guaranteed when they decided to release for Windows or Mac.  Thankfully for them, it appears to have paid off.  I'm not going to presume to know how they should run their business.  I'm just saying that if it existed, I would buy it.  In other words, this is what they can do to get more of my money.  If there are enough people like me saying this, then perhaps that might give food for thought.  Or not.  Whatever.  It's inevitable that at some point, SOMEONE is going to release a decent commercial image editing application for Linux that artists would consider to be an acceptable replacement for Photoshop.  Whoever does that first gets my money.  Do what you will with that information.

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18 minutes ago, justajeffy said:

Profit is never guaranteed.  Much like it wasn't guaranteed when they decided to release for Windows or Mac.  Thankfully for them, it appears to have paid off.  I'm not going to presume to know how they should run their business.  I'm just saying that if it existed, I would buy it.  In other words, this is what they can do to get more of my money.  If there are enough people like me saying this, then perhaps that might give food for thought.  Or not.  Whatever.  It's inevitable that at some point, SOMEONE is going to release a decent commercial image editing application for Linux that artists would consider to be an acceptable replacement for Photoshop.  Whoever does that first gets my money.  Do what you will with that information.

Yes profit is never guaranteed which is why you weigh all the factors in. With Linux it is small user base with higher costs of getting setup, ie convert the software to work on Linux, train staff in Linux, train development in Linux and support Linux. Mac was a safe bet as it has a high user base of people doing creative things. That has changed recently with Windows becoming a viable alternative in some cases. I still prefer Mac. 

If anyone would do it first I would think it would be Adobe. They have the money and the market right now. They are the standard and they are also greedy. If money could be made making a Linux port I am sure they would have done it or are working on it. Again, if these tools are necessary for you you are going to use the OS that supports it. 

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