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That said, I see all this interesting as, more options, more power (specially for the poor (third/second world, and millions on the first world), my main motivation about Linux. I myself DON'T need it. ) . But...As a full, permanent, solid solution.... I keep thinking the best path is keep helping/promoting/supporting/donating to Gimp + Inkscape + Scribus + Krita + Blender + Synfig (+ etc). These are among the major vessels for the matter, fully open source, within the community, fully and deeply linked to it and its roots.  The other option,  commercial apps counting on a Linux version are never fully safe. Those can be easily cut down at any time: IE, company bankruptcy, bad finances, crisis, CEO changes of direction, etc. A wine option is cool, but again, you then FULLY depend on the commercial companies, whatever the CEO / chairs changing, economy, etc, in how the binaries keep being compatible with Wine... From one night to next day you fully loose all your entire graphics work environment, if you are willing to depend on that. This is why I see it crazy that the whole community (linux) is not pushing as one single force to support the "pure" community apps. Even those not into making graphics !  If they want Linux to have overall true relevance.....My 2c.....

EDIT: And it's highly proved to be possible :  Blender, Mozilla Firefox, Thunderbird, Libre Office, Wings 3D... These are at very high level, I mean, for professional use, now. IMO, Gimp (speeding up as we speak), Inkscape, Scribus, Synfig, need more push (donation and promotion, mostly), but have a very strong, solid base. [ Not sure where to place Krita, as if is not "there"  is mainly as it is outstandingly young. I've personally met the devs, and I couldn't trust more in that project's development/future... ]


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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52 minutes ago, SrPx said:

For context, I kind of supposed he wanted to load an Affinity app without needing Aero....

OK, but do have any reason to believe there is any CLI support of any kind built into any of the Affinity apps themselves?


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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46 minutes ago, R C-R said:

OK, but do have any reason to believe there is any CLI support of any kind built into any of the Affinity apps themselves?

I mentioned it is an unsupported option... just sth to maybe try to load the app in Wine...


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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17 hours ago, toltec said:

So again, what is the point of Linux?

It serves up most of the Internet? It runs every Android based phone and hardware, dominating the the smart phone market? It runs Facebook, Wikipedia, etc. It drives a huge amount of hardware (including those large Tesla car displays, Kindles, Kobos, drones, and much more) and most of the internet of things (fridges, thermostats, etcetera)? Heck, it's the only OS running on the entire planet Mars (Mars Rover) and it runs the systems on ISS. It runs China's Social Credit System, controlling many aspects of their population's lives from 2020 onward.

Self-driving cars will be running on Linux when they hit the main consumer market.

Linux dominates in the world throughout, with the exception of graphic design and production and a number of other minor areas such as consumer and office desktops/notebooks where mainly Windows and some Macs are in use. Macs and iOS serve as terminals through which consumers connect to a by and large Linux world with a measure of Windows. Otherwise it is Linux, Linux, Linux. A lot of embedded Linux too.

Linux will probably drive all the upcoming technology and artificial intelligence that will replace much manual labour and related jobs: on farms, in shopping (already happening with all those automated check-outs), in transportation at large (including automated transport ships, planes and drones), sex bots, the servicing and support industry (chatbots), and so on, and so forth. Most office jobs will disappear, replaced by AIs running on some kind of Linux derived OS and software.

Linux drives by far most of the IT world as we know it. And it will only become MORE. Linux will replace most humans' low level jobs, probably - it's already happening. Big brother runs and loves Linux.

Linux: welcome to humankind's future. And the future is now.

Or perhaps your question's scope is to be limited to the prepress print industry only and partly to print graphic design? Well, disregard the previous lines of text in that case.

 

[Written with a hefty dose of sarcasm and irony. Or is it?]

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1 hour ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

Or perhaps your question's scope is to be limited to the prepress print industry only and partly to print graphic design? Well, disregard the previous lines of text in that case.

No, I also mean pretty much everything to do with the home or business, and I mean almost everything.

Office software (OpenOffice is awful) Accounting Software, Graphics Software, Print Trade Software, Hundreds and hundreds of trades with machinery and Specialist needs. 

Linux fans always say Internet, Internet, Internet but AFAIK that could all be done on a PC. I'm not saying you would want to, but I expect you could. Certainly if Linux did not exist, software running on Windows would step up. I think Linux fans are largely the sort of people who spend too much time on a computer, probably on forums like this ;)

In the print trade I dealt with literally hundreds of different types of business, from one man companies like taxi drivers or builders to large companies and not one (ever!) used Linux. Not one! And certainly not in homes. 

In the UK, you can't buy a Linux machine. You have to make one. If I buy a car or a fridge, I don't expect to have to screw it together and paint it, and who fixes it when it goes wrong?

Then there is training. My local college teaches thing like MS Office or Sage/Quick-books. Proper training is essential for business but none teach Linux based software. Most office types or small tradespeople don't have the skills to assemble Linux machines and if you rely on a computer to run your business, you need reliable back-up.

Still, it is handy  to control fridges :P

P.S. I might find the arguments more convincing if ever I meet someone who openly uses a Linux machine. And I don't mean one buried away on the internet or in a fridge.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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2 hours ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

Linux dominates in the world throughout ...

Well, not exactly. It clearly does not dominate in the world of end-user desktop or high performance tablet computing devices, which after all is the target market for the Affinity products.

Besides, relatively few people are likely to want to run full-featured graphics editing & creation software on smartphones or any other device that does not have a relatively large, high resolution display. That is a basic requirement for any professional & even most hobbyist users. A great many not unreasonably also want such niceties as simple, hassle-free support of printing & various kinds of input devices.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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9 hours ago, toltec said:

I might find the arguments more convincing if ever I meet someone who openly uses a Linux machine. And I don't mean one buried away on the internet or in a fridge.

For a bunch of years, I was literally surrounded by those. My entire group of friends happen to be total Linux geeks. Linux was it's air to breath. In every weekend, you could be in a restaurant, eating some burritos, you'd get this or that conversation about whatever Linux related (am a generic-whatever geek, so that wouldn't be too hard on me...). At the job, I worked at a company fully based on Linux (if anything, cross platform, but mostly Linux) .Not only almost all my tools were Linux related, the people contracted were in every case total Linux geeks/fans. This means, also there, every single conversation in breakfast, in every coffee machine break, in every company event or party, Linux was always the conversation theme. Almost a 99%. ALL of them had at home a Linux machine (in rare cases they'd have something from Apple, but that's it). Even some which I'd expected to be more mundane and practical oriented. It just goes with the the profile. I was kindda disrespected because I used mostly Windows, but also any system I had to. I've been in contact for more than a decade people who only used Linux, for everything. But even them do admit there's some stuff they had to say goodbye, to do so. They just tend to minimize that lack, even some fool themselves in doing that.

BTW, Linux can be in a lot of IoT devices and stuff, and well, if you watched the Linux Sucks video, I totally agree on that part... that's linux based tech, more than desktops, and devices to do the professional things (Affinity is a professionals/serious hobby oriented line, if you even read their info in about sections and stuff) we're debating about.... Android is a very "perverted" form of the concept, even while is always used in these debates (very weird way to twist the reality)...And the desktop, which is how humans do more complex stuff, yeah, non AI based (AI is not gonna replace us in what is resolution of certain problems, at least I guess not for many many years...) ... for this desktop functionality, tends to be needed more human adapted OSes (there where OSX is king. In that aspect)... In the desktop, even today, so much better than before in Linux, still there's some gap to cover by Linux, is the point of many. Am not an average joe, so, as a pro, I don't care a lil bit about that, but yes in the lacks, HUGE ones, in real open source tools in Linux (not in closed source binaries that depend in whatever chairs decision, company life, change of CEO, etc, etc, etc. My reason to go Blender was having been left alone with ceased expensive 3D purchased software. So, this leaves out Maya, Houdini, Substance tools, etc... !!! ) , fully open source tools which have a long path to walk, and most worryingly, this not being recognized as an issue by a large percentage of the community (certain very smart people in the community do agree with this, btw...) among which, a large chunk of ppl posting here, sadly. From which, a high percentage are total new users (some not even having a minimal handle of the terminal), not ppl that was installing and using (like me, for example) Linux distros since the 90s. That's my main concern. Probably the only significant one (tho that a color hardware calibrator, one of the very main ones, the golden purchase, in 2018, yet does not count on a linux driver, and like it, a bunch of other pro devices, monitors, etc, YET, yesss, is a biggie, quite an issue. Still, I could somewhat see my way around this one finding and purchasing weird hardware that luckily had support. Or that barely worked with a generic driver. Or whatever. SOMEHOW. The apps problem, nope, that's the barrier.). But the apps problem and not recognizing its existence and mostly, its HUGE importance is very tied with this -kindda- new trend of expecting closed source companies to just do a linux version, instead of the proper way of building really solid graphic (and whatever) editing tools, but REAL open source, WITHIN the community. Is neither loyal to the huge effort of projects like Inskcape, Blender, etc. Kindda ungrateful, also. 

I'd agree it'd be a crazy goal if BLENDER hadn't happened to get today's level. It's a live and working demonstration of how possible it is, and is not that it counts on a huge funding. Pretty small compared with even average companies in the field of network, cloud, programming, etc... there the money (flies) and community efforts are HUGE. So, IMO, is a matter of changing minds, ways of thinking. WITHIN the community ! And... been some decades, so... About time that OPEN SOURCE graphics content creation tools receive the actual attention they deserve, also for the good of the entire platform and community. IMHO.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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On 12/2/2018 at 10:59 AM, toltec said:

what about all the other stuff, like printer drivers, plug-ins, green-screen software and all the dozens of other apps. All the professional stuff that is available off-the-shelf for PCs and Macs.

Printer drivers are actually one argument for Linux. I think I live 5 years longer since I don't have to deal with 100 MB printer drivers for Windows anymore. In fact, the open source CUPS printing system was so fine, that Apple Inc. purchased the source code in 2007. Since then, Apple and Linux printer drivers have basically been the same. Apple adds some sugar, but the system is still bound by the open source license.

What do films like Lord of the Rings, Fantastic Four, Star Wars, The Matrix, King Kong, and Avatar have in common?

All done in Linux. I don't think green-screening is a problem.

Also check out these open source movies done entirely in non-commercial open source software on Linux.

Agent 327: Operation Barbershop (2017):

I don't particularly like this open movie, but it shows that even using only 100% free and open source software, green-screening can be done pretty neatly.

On 12/2/2018 at 10:59 AM, toltec said:

Remind me again, what is the point of Linux ?

Remind me, why is this relevant to you? For some people it's their tool of choice for their creative masterpieces. They inform Serif/Affinity that they are missing a Linux-tool that is priced somewhere between free and expensive because there is a gap, and Affinity would fill that gap perfectly. They have the unique chance to be first to market.

Note that more and more powerful commercial compositing software companies are releasing free versions, even for commercial use, but slightly limited in cinematic features (such as stereoscopic rendering). They are quickly adding support for Linux customers because they know there's a deep silent market. Linux users are loyal to their operating system.

 

Are the Affinity guys still reading? Here is an interesting article.

our experience launching a paid, proprietary product on Linux

Quote

Do I have any tips for those of you considering selling on Linux? You bet.

  • Engage with Canonical. They are approachable, super helpful and want your Snap to succeed. They have a strong marketing department.
  • Forge strong relationships with your Linux users. Make it easy for them to get in touch. Listen to them. Linux is a community — word will spread!
  • Allow your users to contribute, but reward them for their contribution. We’re offering a free license to anyone that will help us translate Hiri.

 

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18 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

Are the Affinity guys still reading?

They are like the Eye Of Sauron. Always watching from the deepest Darkness. Every part of the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie, is under watch. Beware if daring to call The Nazgûls...

PD: My bet for "pure" open source apps is not a fanatic/old skool one. Couldn't care less about "code must be free" stuff. Is a much more practical view. Commercial companies close business in a snap, and all of a sudden. And often, with it there goes their app, code, or even the stuck binaries. Let alone maintenance of the app. I got wasted of that, both for the time lost invested in learning, and very specially, money lost. As decades ago, no software of this level was 50 bucks, was always several thousands....

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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Also, Linux films: A big portion of that (not all) is possible thanks to in-house made, custom software, often customized or made from scratch per film. (well, unrelated, but seen that done in a lot of game studios I worked at. Today is not so much of a tendency in games,tho) rather than already mainstream available (for every average pro user) software. A lot of those open source movies you mention after the other group, ie, Agent ("Entirely made in Blender"), Caminandes,  Glass Half...were made -mostly- with Blender. Which is FULLY open source. Not a commercial app (well, actually it was, in dinosaurs times, and then open sourced, fully) ported to Linux as a binary only, and existence depending on internal politics and investors of each company. A brilliant exception of an app in open source graphic content creation software (and my tool for everything 3D). An example to follow, me hopes, as I was mentioning in the previous posts, but far from being the case with other community made open source apps.... (which IMO have a safer long term future...)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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1 hour ago, Redsandro said:

1. Printer drivers are actually one argument for Linux. 

2. What do films like Lord of the Rings, Fantastic Four, Star Wars, The Matrix, King Kong, and Avatar have in common?

3. All done in Linux. I don't think green-screening is a problem.

4. Remind me, why is this relevant to you?

1. A huge problem if photographers or designers or tradespeople cannot use professional quality printers. 

2. Like running Affinity software on Linux, none of them are based on reality ;)

3. Speaking of reality, it is a problem because green-screen software like Primatte cannot be used in still life photography. Who cares about big multi-million dollar film industries if the average user on a budget has no access to useful software. Why are most people using Photo in the first place? mostly because it is much cheaper than PS.

4. In case you haven't noticed, this is a forum for Affinity products and as far as Affinity users are concerned Linux OS is pointless. OK perhaps it is handy as (in the case of the internet) it is an 'enabler' for doing stuff for genuinely useful computers, like Macs, PCs or even phones. But the software inside graphics cards, hard disc drives and computer monitors  is more useful as far as I'm concerned. Some of that might be based on Linux to be fair, but then lots of stuff used to be based on Basic.

I'm sorry, but I can't get at all interested in an OS. I buy computers to do things, like write pointless letter, edit pointless photos or play pointless games. As using a Linux computer would prevent me doing any of those to the standard I require. Linux is pointless as far as I'm concerned.

Still, if people are more interested in the computers operating system than in what the computer can actually do ... maybe there is a point to it :/

 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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1 hour ago, Redsandro said:

They inform Serif/Affinity that they are missing a Linux-tool that is priced somewhere between free and expensive because there is a gap, and Affinity would fill that gap perfectly.

Yes, they did this over four years ago (August 2014) and Serif gave their answer. No. What part of 'No' do Linux users not understand ?

So why go on and on and on and on .... ?

Serif are a very clever company who have survived and thrived for 30+ years, writing good and desirable software. Do you think that is easy ?. Like Adobe, Serif could easily write software for Linux but have concluded that for now, it is 'pointless'.

And bear in mind the huge problems they would face, not only are there lots of variants of Linux but Linux is often run on old, recycled PCs that may be OK to run Linux and basic software but they are not up to running a high-end, processor hungry program like Affinity Photo. If the Affinity 'experience' for most Linux users was that of endless watching the timer, freezes and so on,they would soon lose interest. So who would fund Serif's development costs? 

As the saying goes, 'be careful what you wish for'.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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1 hour ago, toltec said:

1. A huge problem if photographers or designers or tradespeople cannot use professional quality printers. 

So those printers don't work on Apple, which uses the same CUPS system, either? Windows is the only system that a professional would use?

18 hours ago, toltec said:

AFAIK that could all be done on a PC.

I think you confuse your OS with your hardware. Linux runs on PC.

Quote

In the print trade I dealt with literally hundreds of different types of business, from one man companies like taxi drivers or builders to large companies and not one (ever!) used Linux.

So in your line of work Linux is not prevalent. That's fine. But why are you arguing so hard against Linux users, calling them protesters? I don't get it.

Quote

In the UK, you can't buy a Linux machine.

Every year, Dell has the prettiest Linux laptops. Check out that 2018 XPS

Quote

3. Speaking of reality, it is a problem because green-screen software like Primatte cannot be used in still life photography.

I'm afraid you have been ignorant. Primatte has been supported in Linux on OFX software for many years. You can use any node-based compositor to render HDI and use it as you see fit. Or use Primatte with OFX in Gimp. But we (Affinity using Linux users) would prefer to use Affinity over Gimp. In fact, Primatte comes from IRIX Unix. It was only ported to Windows later.

Quote

Who cares about big multi-million dollar film industries if the average user on a budget has no access to useful software.

I'm afraid you have been ignorant the past couple of years. Films like Wonder Woman, Alien: Covenant and The Hero, done with DaVinci Resolve. Which is available for free on Windows, OSX and Linux.

Films like Avatar, Sin City and Watchmen, done with Eyeon Fusion, recently purchased by Black Magic. Seat costs thousands of euro's, but if you don't render in 3d, it's available for free on Windows, OSX and Linux.

Films like The Wolf of Wall Street, Centurion and Bruce Almighty done with Lightworks, available on Linux (and recently Windows and OSX) for free.

Quote

4. In case you haven't noticed, this is a forum for Affinity products and as far as Affinity users are concerned Linux OS is pointless.

You are being quite ignorant and disrespectful with the things you say about Linux users and the haughty way you write sentences like the quoted one. First of all, why do you think I am here? To talk about my car? Affinity is literally the only reason I boot Windows. It's the only reason I've surrendered 80 gigabytes from my SSD to run that inferior piece of spyware. Second, it's easy to be ignorant and disrespectful. I can tell you that there is a lot, a _lot_ of linux training out there. I guess it's more about developing apps, virtual reality, computer graphics, big data, machine learning, artificial intelligence, tensor flow. You know, the more intelligent stuff. Nobody thought about giving training for inserting a table into a document on Linux yet. Document typing is not for Linux people. Linux people write scientific papers using dedicated tools. Sometimes they want to have a laugh and edit a photo too, just like those Windows folk that take themselves very seriously.

Now I didn't need to put it like that, but I was triggered into showing the pointlessness of being disrespectful.

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1 hour ago, SrPx said:

Also, Linux films: A big portion of that (not all) is possible thanks to in-house made, custom software, often customized or made from scratch per film.

I think this was mostly true in the time of Silicon Graphics and Terminator 2. BlackMagic Design made many friends by providing their (blockbuster-grade professional) color grading, editing and compositing software for free. It's hard to compete in-house with dedicated software developers. Things that used to be solely used in-house are now being sold. Just like Epic went from developing the Unreal Engine in-house for their own games, to selling it, to now providing it for free for projects that don't make a ton of money. Pixar's "renderman" is also no longer in-house software, but being sold, and provided for free (but non-commercial only).

One thing that all of those studios have in common is they use Linux as their operating system.

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25 minutes ago, Redsandro said:

Now I didn't need to put it like that, but I was triggered into showing the pointlessness of being disrespectful.

Linux users are constantly disrespectful of Microsoft Windows, yet Windows allows countless millions of average users to do things with computers, like run businesses and does run Affinity software. Which Linux can't.

Or do you think that only Linux users are allowed to be disrespectful ? perhaps only their opinion matters ?

Why do Linux constantly come on here and trash the OS that half of us use, blabber on about how much better Linux is when it can't even do basic stuff like print to any of my printers?


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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4 minutes ago, toltec said:

Linux users are countlessly disrespectful of Microsoft Windows.

Or do you think that only Linux users are allowed to be disrespectful ?

I have to admit that I thought only Linux users were allowed to be disrespectful. That's why I didn't understand why you were being disrespectful. I stand corrected. You were being disrespectful because somewhere, Linux users are countlessly disrespectful. I will not disturb you again.

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1 hour ago, toltec said:

I'm sorry, but I can't get at all interested in an OS. I buy computers to do things, like write pointless letter, edit pointless photos or play pointless games. As using a Linux computer would prevent me doing any of those to the standard I require. Linux is pointless as far as I'm concerned.

Still, if people are more interested in the computers operating system than in what the computer can actually do ... maybe there is a point to it :/

 

I find your comment a bit misguided. I believe the bigger issue is that Affinity doesn't understand a portion of their users. I think there is a disconnect between some designers and a subsection of developers who believe the Linux OS and ecosystem are exactly as you point out. That is just not true anymore just look at what is going on with Steam and the game industry and Microsoft subsystem for Linux or perhaps the RedHat purchase a company at its core open source!

Closer to home I am the designer and the lead front end developer for a web and electron based application(s). I literally have to dual boot my machine to use BOTH sets of tooling design on Windows and development on Linux. None of it's pointless but its REAL work and pays REAL money. 

Your last point is kinda misguided I think. Many people are interested in what their computers OS is doing when it applies to the job they are trying to do. For me, its having the OS get the hell out of my way so I can do work and also so my IT staff can ensure it is the most secure system possible.

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Linux people write scientific papers using dedicated tools.

Definitely. But is not an exclusive parcel of Linux users.... I've known people (one I met long ago is doing this constantly...) writing outstanding scientific papers using Windows... and... Apple machines.

Quote

Sometimes they want to have a laugh and edit a photo too ,

Editing _well_ a photo is not that simple (unless we refer to make a meme to just "have a laugh" (+ "to run that inferior piece of spyware"  ...er...about the disrespect matter...). And well, that's the type of software that seems to be one of the focuses of this company's suite... Affinity Photo, quite for photo editing...

Quote

just like those Windows folk that take themselves very seriously.

I'm not sure about which of the two type of users take themselves (and their OS) more seriously...

 

12 hours ago, Redsandro said:

One thing that all of those studios have in common is they use Linux as their operating system.

Yep. More stable, no cost per seat, ideal for custom solutions where you have to freely access things quite at a low level, and you need flexibility, and ideal for networks and team work. For the average Joe in an office, or, a graphic design company, or stressful publicity agency...not necessarily that great (Affinity suite is more thought for these than for Pixar specialists, somehow). Until sees the light certain change of dealing with that other type of apps, and users, a change that I see happening already in each open source app (ie, Blender 2.8)...just slowly. And is because devs finally see that this is the way to get the wider audience, and this is by itself, key... I'm not really in the Windows or Linux side, fully. In improvement in both platforms, definitely.

But, this is part of the issue, this debate always end up going to film industry, no matter what. The problem is far from being there. The interest on a suite like Affinity is not for people willing to work at Pixar (I'm a 3D guy, too, if anything I'd be dealing for that with way different software). These apps, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, A. Publisher, are clearly in the photo editing (not necessarily just to have a laugh, but often to bring food to the plate), DTP publishing, graphic design for print and web. Which is a HUGE, huge market, BTW. In size, way bigger than most people imagine. I can model to full detail a high end 3D character. And so, what. I'm not into that anymore, but into the way more often seen jobs offered in my area, which the Affinity suite covers quite well.  A professional field also not as restricted in access as film industry, which , in comparison, is way niche.And often only existing in certain particular areas and regions, whereas general graphic design, photo editing and publishing is pretty worldwide, easy to locally find a job (or my main interest, freelance gigs) for that almost wherever. Let alone if you added to the mix (of your professional abilities, done with other tools) capability for web coding and web design.

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Things that used to be solely used in-house are now being sold. Just like Epic went from developing the Unreal Engine in-house for their own games, to selling it, to now providing it for free for projects that don't make a ton of money. Pixar's "renderman" is also no longer in-house software, but being sold, and provided for free (but non-commercial only).

Yeah, well... Hmmm...seen  stuff on how quite recent films have their custom developments, but ok.... wont argue there.  Then, about Unreal Engine, for projects that don't really make a big buck, and Renderman for non commercial . There's the problem already there.... And like those, there are a bunch. For competing, you often need to get the software that is at the top of the pyramid, not some free versions of restricted use. But that's not the point, this is a very specific matter, and a side argument (am guilty of getting into it, too), we could be all day going in a case per case of the things, ported binaries that are available or not for Linux from the commercial apps world...

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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9 minutes ago, texobyte said:

Many people are interested in what their computers OS is doing when it applies to the job they are trying to do. For me, its having the OS get the hell out of my way so I can do work and also so my IT staff can ensure it is the most secure system possible.

And what proportion of such users compared to all the computer users in the world would you estimate that to be?

Maybe 1% at a push, probably less.

It is not my place to speak for Serif (they obviously know what they are doing better then I do), but any commercial company would realistically be aiming at the other 99%.

If they sold very expensive software, maybe, but it is priced for high volume sales. 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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6 minutes ago, toltec said:

And what proportion of such users compared to all the computer users in the world would you estimate that to be?

Maybe 1% at a push, probably less.

It is not my place to speak for Serif (they obviously know what they are doing better then I do), but any commercial company would realistically be aiming at the other 99%.

If they sold very expensive software, maybe, but it is priced for high volume sales. 

I am not going to pretend I have any clue as to what proportion of such users are both designers and developers or any of the others (...) in-between but this was a thread created to voice a need to have support and many proposed solutions. The Mac is useful for many in my "position" and now the Windows subsystem for Linux too is up there so it's not the end of the world. 

I propose two thoughts: 1) if Serif were to break in to the Linux ecosystem would they gain customers that are not accessible via the standard platform? Perhaps a survey of some sorts? (I myself use Serif products in a VM and Adobe CC on the Windows partition) and 2) How was it built? Two native applications and two code bases? Does Serif realize Adobe is moving to browser based technologies quite quickly? Web Assembly is right around the corner... Oh and ChromeOS (Linux based) now offers Linux App support so that means A HUGE market.

I know firsthand that porting software is often deemed not cost efficient BUT I am also smart enough to know that a silent question is a solid NO every time!

Lastly a nice stat list: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/#technology Look at the platforms... That means that POTENTIALLY there is a market for this small niche perhaps <shrug> who knows.

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4 hours ago, texobyte said:

Lastly a nice stat list: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/#technology Look at the platforms... That means that POTENTIALLY there is a market for this small niche perhaps <shrug> who knows.

That's a sample of 66k people in a very niche (yet very well considered, but that's not the point) developers site? Global (average use in the world) usage charters are quite the opposite....if you check some of a less niche, or web/web apps development focused (typically Linux based) larger samples charts, the % of Linux users vs the Windows ones (in a quite smaller degree, to the OSX ones) is quite tiny...

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I propose two thoughts: 1) if Serif were to break in to the Linux ecosystem would they gain customers that are not accessible via the standard platform? Perhaps a survey of some sorts?

This matter has bounced back (after the many times they have answered "not having any plans" of making it) so many times, and considering or not an entire platform is such a huge decision, that I would fully expect that Serif collected enough data to decide...

BTW, OT, but VMs, due to less direct hardware stuff access, might get you less performance on Affinity apps, unless you are not doing very demanding tasks (well, usually web graphics aren't (been there, done that)).

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I know firsthand that porting software is often deemed not cost efficient BUT 

Depends on the studied income predicted by the money people in a given company. As they themselves have stated, is not that they have a critical technical problem to port it (they're capable of it). Is more about if it is a good business for them (not just to release it, but maintain the version, etc) with the expected income. Which it seems by all the answers given to Linux users posting here (quite many times) about this, and what we can deduct, they consider it is not.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM. 
Affinity PHOTO 1.7.x --> AMAZING. Getting there for painting. Temporary trick  (Windows - only) for better "alt" key color picking configured in a Wacom Intuos Pro pen's side button.

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4 hours ago, SrPx said:

As they themselves have stated, is not that they have a critical technical problem to port it (they're capable of it). Is more about if it is a good business for them (not just to release it, but maintain the version, etc) with the expected income. Which it seems by all the answers given to Linux users posting here (quite many times) about this, and what we can deduct, they consider it is not.

FWIW, I started to post something similar shortly after reading the last post by @texobyte but after considering how many times it has already been mentioned in the previous pages of this now very long topic, I decided that if Linux advocates posting here don't understand what this is really about by now, there is not much hope they ever will.

After all, it is a bit much to think that Serif somehow did not already know quite well everything these users keep repeating, page after page, or that anybody knows better than Serif what would be good for the company.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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I have been using GNU/Linux since version 0.99 on DOS based hardware. I am very comfortable with the FOSS logic and goals. I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with a tone I am picking up that keeps asking the same question when the answer is no from a company. Possible solutions to the answer of no:

  • Pool resources and buy control of the company—make it yours.
  • Pool resources and start a new company to create the product your way. 
  • Join a FOSS project and help it create a product that meets your expectations.
  • Create a new FOSS project that will create the product of your dreams.
  • If able, roll your own software and be in total control.

I am an old guy thinking old ways: Don't keep banging against a brick wall expecting to change the wall. Work around the wall, be clever, create attractive ideas. Make your ideas so attractive that those behind the wall will come out and join you.

Please stop shouting at the wall—the wall will not respond.

I feel better now, thank you for the space to vent my frustration,

Solly

 


Solly

JFSJ

N3MKH

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For several years now I have been using only Linux (Manjaro Deepin) on my computer. At the moment, however, I am actually considering switching back to Windows because of the affinity products.

So far I have mainly programmed and was satisfied with Inkscape. Photoshop ran via Wine. But since I chose Affinity products at work a year ago, as I'm doing more and more design work, I've been missing Affinity products more and more on my Linux desktop.

Dual boot is no option for me, because it's not comfortable, bad UX.

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