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Affinity for Linux


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Linux? I wouldn't invest a single dime into the development of an app for this OS. Ahem - which OS? The real Linux problem is that there are too many 'distros'. If they all would unite and put their effort into one single Linux OS, it would be an OS appealing a bit more to developers of commercial (proprietary) software. 

 

By the way: Several years ago Xara ( the same request, and they delivered. However, soon after the release of the Linux version it was clear that hardly anyone was interested in it. So Xara stopped the expensive adventure.

 

My guess: The same story would happen to AP and AD.

 

Please, before you think you have to convince me or tell me about the good Linux stuff, hold your breath: I am using Linux for more than a decade by now, but definitely not for any image editing or design. 

 

Recommendation: If you want to use AP and/or AD, just invest into a Mac. It is simple as that. 

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Pixelmator is told to be great (btw, didn't know it does not handle CMYK, one extra for Krita is that it has "some" CMYK support, at least more than Gimp. But yeah, not cool the crashes with large files. I hope that eventually gets fixed). One of the many reasons I'd like to have at my work room a Mac as well (and a Linux machine. I don't enjoy anymore having a multi-boot machine and/or emulators, but I love the 3 systems, having used quite the three, I know this is not too common...) . If I don't is just to have 3 OSes to maintain and multiply by 4 my expenses, as a full time freelance am a bit in "dire mode",  but they are the only reasons.

 

IMO Graphics apps should have some functioning core features (like proper type handling, CMYK etc) for print designers.

 

 

Absolutely agreeing, specially in the CMYK matter (for me). Even with all these POD companies popping like popcorn all around. And some doing a surprisingly good job from just a sRGB file.. I have all calibrated, by hardware, but still, got impressed when sent the samples in one recent case...

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. is a matter of , " Hey, give me that at least, or I can't even work if not, can't deliver to the client... "  :/  These issues should be the very first priority if developing for a professional user base.

 

Print will not go away in our lifetimes. No matter what they say.

 

 

Very deeply wishing you are right ! Too many hours (years), blood and tears put into that as to see it disappear... (even while I am all for recycled paper and do it harmless for the ecosystem and all...). Heck, I can manage with "only" my other fields, and the web is an endless source of jobs and commissions, just IMO more changing (demands way more updating, as there you need to get a lot more into coding). The other slot to fill, if print goes away, is pure UX/UI jobs/gigs... And the UX part makes me wish I'd have picked another career, at moments...

 

Affinity seems very promising. That's why I bothered posting in this thread. Even though they made it explicitly clear that there will be no Linux versions.

 

 

Well...you never know. Yep, they've said that in several moments, but no one knows what could bring the future (maybe not even them). Just, IMO, my suspect is that this wont happen anytime soon.

 

Guess that if I ever go back to Apple I'll give Affinity a spin.

 

 

 

IMO, if working mostly as a designer (I do, but I'd say my % of work goes more with illustration ,lately) having a decent Apple machine makes a lot of sense....I can handle absolutely everything pretty well with my old Windows i7 machine , but If I deeply disliked MS (not the case, at all), no doubt I'd have a Mac instead... (and Linux if were focused in video or FX (and/or Blender), only... )

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By the way: Several years ago Xara ( the same request, and they delivered. However, soon after the release of the Linux version it was clear that hardly anyone was interested in it. So Xara stopped the expensive adventure.

 

My guess: The same story would happen to AP and AD.

 

Xara?! Seriously. That's an old can of worms you opened and it has nothing to do with selling a graphics app to Linux users.

To refresh your memory please visit: https://www.linux.com/news/lessons-learned-open-source-xaras-failure

 

Other than that. Your suggestions are noted.

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And exactly that is the problem of the multiple distro Linux community: They want everything for FREE. 

 

Who is going to issue your paycheck?

 

The logical fallacy in your reply is amazing.

 

Paycheck?! How clever of you.

 

Lovely forum you got here Serif. You can keep it.

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Lovely forum you got here Serif. You can keep it.

 

It's just the logical reaction to the pontifications of another Linux zealot.

 

If you really want access to Affinity software - if that's your real priority - then the solution is simple: use a Windows or Mac machine.

 

But noooo, this is really about winning your little OS bigotry battle rather than actually being able to use Photo or Designer, isn't it?

Keith Reeder

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it has nothing to do with selling a graphics app to Linux users.

 

Why is that? Looks entirely relevant to me in terms of confirming the intransigence, inflexibility and intolerance of the Linux/FOSS community to anything that isn't done exactly their way...

Keith Reeder

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Can a moderator please delete my account.

 

I came here with the best of intentions to request a Linux version. I have no time to engage in this discussion further and I don't want an active account in this forum, since I do not belong in the Affinity user community.

 

There is no delete account option.

 

So thank you very much. And best of luck.

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Can a moderator please delete my account.

 

I came here with the best of intentions to request a Linux version. I have no time to engage in this discussion further and I don't want an active account in this forum, since I do not belong in the Affinity user community.

 

There is no delete account option.

 

So thank you very much. And best of luck.

I found your link to xara very interesting  :)

 

there is not actually one affinity community, just bunch of guys being more or less friendly and some have the same and some have different opinions  :)

 

your account will only get disabled not deleted as far as I've seen it so far so not sure if that helps  :ph34r:

 

 

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One can use Photoline with wine. The developers have said they would build a Linux version if enough people request one. They do actively fix any issues reported while using it under wine.

 

On past evidence, I very much doubt that Serif are interested in supporting the Affinity apps running on an emulator. They have always said that their 'Plus' range of software is only supported on a Mac if run on Windows installed directly in the Boot Camp partition, not on Windows installed in a virtual environment such as VMware Fusion.

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I mean the developers of Photoline.

 

Yes, I understood that. Sorry if that wasn't clear! All I meant was that I don't see Serif following their example and offering to fix issues reported against the Affinity apps running under Wine (or any other emulator or virtual environment).

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Yes, I understood that. Sorry if that wasn't clear! All I meant was that I don't see Serif following their example and offering to fix issues reported against the Affinity apps running under Wine (or any other emulator or virtual environment).

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Yes, I know. And even though this thread is a plea for Serif to develop for Linux, there were statements earlier about other applications lacking in this or that and oh, gee, we just have to have Serif develop for Linux. 

 

I hadn't read the entire thread and so don't know if PL was even mentioned. PL is a great alternative to PS and others on whatever the platform. Yes, it needs wine. But it is inexpensive, upgrades are in the cheap category. It's been around for ever and is one of the most actively developed applications I know of.

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...And looking at posts praising it, some time ago (not much), I went, curious freak as I am , to test PL (Again. As in its day, quite longer ago, the demo crashed constantly on me. Probably one of the typical Windows 64 bits installers and application binaries occasional issues, so, knowing it "could" have a workaround I could find, still no time to get to discover and fix the problem )...Just to realize it caused jiter when painting with the brush in a typical zoom. That together preferring Affinity's UI a ton more... The UI is not a huge issue (but definitely affects a decision), but the brush problem... For that I prefer to wait to AP and AD 1.6 improvements.

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Just imagine: After around 12 months Affinity Photo version 1.5 already left PL with version 20.2 (!) far behind...

 

 

If you think so.

 

I've never used PhotoLine, but from the things I've read about it and the screenshots I've seen from it I would say that neither AD nor APh has come anywhere near reaching parity with PL, never mind surpassing it.

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Hi Alfred,

 

It may well lack in the painting department. I don't know. Though I haven't read too much about performance issues when so doing. I don't use PL for painting per se (nor XDP, nor ...). What little brush work in regards to a painted look I have used Art Rage and Twisted Brush.

 

For what I use it for, image manipulation mainly, it works extremely well and performance is darn good on this lowly laptop. It down right rocks on the more powerful computer. And while it processes RAW just fine, I also don't use it for that, either. But I do restore color, sharpen for print, yada yada yada...

 

post-255-0-34525600-1493052697_thumb.png

 

The above was used in a forum challenge. You can see how much color was gone. It was mainly some selections and adjustment layers. Point is, I know how PL works. And I use 2 other image editors as well. (And three painting applications.) There isn't one that can do it all properly and/or as well. And then there is the issue of just being familiar--and it is that last bit that is the challenge before Serif in order to win a true percentage of PS users over.

 

The point of this thread, I thought, was both begging Serif to port to Linux, and the side notes of how poorly applications are represented on Linux. And I was mainly responding to the last page or two about CMYK, etc. In that regard, PL is a great application.

 

Is PL a 1:1 replacement for APhoto? I don't know and I am not about to add yet one more image editor at this time to find out. I use what I use for client compatibility and personal preference. If and when I ever have a client using APhoto, then I'll add it.

 

Mike

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Though I personally never really used it, it is always said that PL is a strong and fast performer for all kind of image manipulations (at least on Win). The only drawbacks might be how it's UI and function namings etc. have been setup in terms of usability and L&F here (it has a slightly vintage style here).

 

Back to OT, Linux? 

 

Well it's a fine, cost friendly OS for server platforms, ideal for hosting three tiers software, webservers, application servers and databases etc. Since it's a Unix based OS it's powerful in this regard as a general server environment. It's also good to use as a common software development platform for certain Unix related things. - But it's not that much known to be the first choice platform for individual image/drawing creatives here, in terms of ease to use, the overall UI usability and things like that. What makes things sometimes difficult here for Linux and all derivates is the overall OS and desktop UIs wild groth, since there is mostly no straight clear line to follow. Also most things in the penguin world are conceptual wise mostly based on free to use software and their free usability, it's a strong used credo here. - So I'm not sure if it is an attractive market at all for software companies, who's main supporting leg are proprietary closed individual drawing software, even most of these software solutions do use internally a lot of free frameworks and libraries out of that domain.

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Also most things in the penguin world are conceptual wise mostly based on free to use software and their free usability, it's a strong used credo here. - So I'm not sure if it is an attractive market at all for software companies, who's main supporting leg are proprietary closed individual drawing software, even most of these software solutions do use internally a lot of free frameworks and libraries out of that domain.

There is that to consider. It seems to have been the sticking point in the Xara example previously mentioned -- from what little I know about it, the volunteer developer community seemed to be oblivious to what I think should be the obvious reasons why the company would not want to make its core rendering library open source.

 

It isn't just about giving it away for free what keeps the company profitable & commercially competitive, or even supporting "the" major Linux distribution -- two of which have already been mentioned in this topic, so there is not even consensus on that. It is also about what can happen when there are multiple open source versions of the core code in circulation. That can cause significant support issues, disputes about who is responsible for fixing whatever doesn't work the same across all versions, & stall the development of new features while all that gets sorted out (if it ever does).

 

So the real question here may be if there really is much of a market for a partially or completely closed source Linux version of the Affinity apps.

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There is that to consider. It seems to have been the sticking point in the Xara example previously mentioned -- from what little I know about it, the volunteer developer community seemed to be oblivious to what I think should be the obvious reasons why the company would not want to make its core rendering library open source.

...

 

I recall that one of the overall problems with that Xara LX version was, that parts of its code had hard to resolve dependencies on certain of Xara's own and also some third party libraries and thus wasn't that good to port over and maintain at all. - Maybe it also was one of the reasons why there never appeared any Mac port of it at all.

 

Don't know if there is any software company who makes a living out of it by also selling explicite Linux versions of closed software (no open source end user software), beside some IDE and database vendors etc. which are here more affiliated with Unix as a platform hosting service/market.

 

 

...

It is also about what can happen when there are multiple open source versions of the core code in circulation. That can cause significant support issues, disputes about who is responsible for fixing whatever doesn't work the same across all versions, & stall the development of new features while all that gets sorted out (if it ever does).

 

Well not necessarily as you can see by thousends of other projects, this has more to do with clearly defined rules of responsibilities and how projects are generally managed and maintained etc. Some do it more the right way and others probably not, you can see even on GitHub good structured and maintained projects in this regard.

 

However the question is more if a closed, none open source software has a chance to get a wider acceptance on Linux and if there is a market for such software at all.

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However the question is more if a closed, none open source software has a chance to get a wider acceptance on Linux and if there is a market for such software at all.

 

Keep in mind that there's already tons of closed source proprietary software on Linux now. Steam's on there with a couple thousand games on the platform already, and you can buy tons of 3D specific stuff like Maya, Modo, Mari, and even some other pieces of software that don't start with an M. The Substance suite also just released there recently too, after people begged for it for a couple of years on their forums.

 

So the question isn't whether commercial software has a place on Linux, it's whether Serif can afford the cost to do the port, and if there's enough of an audience there for their particular software to justify the attempt.

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Well, there's Maya and Houdini. And those are super strong in Linux thanks to film industry. And can't easily think of anything of higher specs and needs than what is done in the film industry. (yet though, video games industry moves now more money, and with some brilliant exceptions, is clearly dominated by Windows and Mac.)

 

But IMO, there's a few very important reasons (I was for years very much hoping it'd change) why they don't have a stronger set of graphic editing applications :

 

- 1) A large percentage of developers (and users) are coding/server/system focused, not graphic artists, there is not many personally interested in graphic applications, using them, and even less creating them. Or, the little they need (make their app icon, etc) is really well covered by Gimp and Inskcape. Linux moves a lot this way: people make an app that they need, or for the pro world they know, etc. Is only till very recent that people from Blender movie projects (actual concept artists) and other areas have been heard a bit more, and so you could see the relatively recent appearance of MyPaint, and this new strong thing called Krita.

 

- 2) It seems that many really believe it's fine and covered with Inkscape, Gimp and Blender (it partially is, indeed). And in a good percentage of tasks (and leaving out people more picky than me with non standard UIs) they have a point. Just not there to compete with professional software for it in Mac and Windows in the most deep complexities, at least (IMO, Blender has reached that happy point, and Krita is very near once solves some performance issues and adds some editing and type related stuff power) . That is : Fine for hobbyists and indy authors who are brave to deal with different UIs (indeed, even very different among them, so you need to be an "UI all terrains" kind of artist (I am, and many of them are))  . But is not that fine to compete for the level of things required in several professional areas. Like print, games, etc. In good hands, I mean, some many years of expertise people, yep, they can, somehow, but even them, at a slower pace that can someone with super specialized top tools in Win/Mac and equally talented. And this is because they are great experts, but human beings: If a feature is slow and incomplete, you can only find clever workarounds: That's slower, though. Quite fine for personal projects, though, where time, bosses, milestones, etc, are not every minute pressing.

 

- 3) Other reason of these apps, (not all! but in a big percentage) don't get there to fight with the top dogs in Win /Mac  is this constantly found way of thinking that implementing ways and adding certain features is "copying Windows"  or copying Mac. Is not. Is adding what a professional needs, today. Adding CMYK solid handling has been quite a lost fight in a good number of editing apps both in the vectors and raster world (you could browse forums archives in several of the apps, to see how many times this has been requested).

 

- 4) Related to (3), certain barrier hard to go through -it seems- is that whenever the professional world uses/requires some sort of closed, commercial library or thing, ie, Pantone's libraries, they have automatically an issue there. I hope that's already sorted out somehow, but there was an issue with that, and color profiles, and certain matters. The graphics world is full of this sort of things, and actually illustrators and artists are not too friendly of the concept of giving away your rights, giving for free the original source files (even when paid, if not added an extra pay) , like a layered full editable file, etc. I mean, this whole philosophy tends to crash there.

 

- 5) The graphics making software world evolves at the speed of light, and this is possible because there's a very strong market which pays for it. If you have only volunteers and hobbyists to compete with that in their free time (as it has worked fine in browsers, server stuff, programming IDEs, etc) AND the mass of the people in the community, or not even a big enough portion of it, is not interested in graphic software, well, then you can't ever compete. The commercial tools in graphics in Win or Mac get to be always several steps over them. And mostly, seems to listen more closely to professionals (maybe also as pros do give their feedback to their everyday tool and company which makes it.). Somehow, I have experienced that Blender is the one getting the best pace here, to a point is getting really close...But then, you think of a combo of Zbrush, Substance Painter, Maya and Max in their latest iterations, and it'd be doubtful to state equally talented persons would work equally fast and with ability to do every professional world need just the same with Blender+ Gimp, etc. I've known and seen absolute aces with Blender and Gimp, and even them, competing with the  top guys with the other pack...Hmmm, I'll leave it there, as, strange as it sounds, I would really prefer open source cross platform apps would be there already. That said, in certain fields, like video editing mid/small sized studios, or game developers of non AAA games, small companies making work in video and 3D editing for local TVs, etc, etc... , in those, Blender is already there, getting a nice portion of the market. Those studios also tend to use Gimp and similar software (but I have seen a collection of them using blender in Linux native and launch Wine to use a single (old) user license of PS !. One of the proofs that Blender is just ahead of the bunch). They are just not widely known, but they are there.

 

- 6) Due to bad experiences with the UIs, and/or, some "little bit" of aggressive behavior between both communities (which I've seen goes in both directions) and/or statements very rigid in those communities (Windows is cr4p, or Linux is cr4p, summarizing that all) makes artists flow among platforms way less likely than it could be. If a seasoned -or newbie- artist from Win/Mac finds a UI which does not feel as home, by far, and when asks questions finds a bad response in the community, that one wont come back, rarely that flow is gonna happen. Luckily, there are exceptions, and for instance, I notice Blender users tend to be very patient people with newcomers.  (it adds to the problem that users from other platforms come to Linux apps with a very closed mindset, often. )

 

- 7) What tends to happen in every field : Already super strong user base established in Windows and Mac in graphic apps. That would be hard to beat even counting with the same technical advantages in the software ! Who hits first, hits twice, they say...So, not a situation where devs or users in linux apps should put more stones for incoming external platform artists...It's already a non attractive path. (price being zero in many cases, and a bit of adjusting the apps to the current pro needs for the professionals, and more standard UIs for the other users types, would go a long way...)

 

 

And I have it so sort of "examined" as I am a very long time user of those apps, and really wish the situation was better. I for one believe the apps that exist in Linux for graphics are way , way more usable than what I have read even from a bunch of linux users here ! (might be a new thing, but I am used to the opposite : Linux users saying Gimp is the best in the world and PS is cr4p. I might be getting old or there's really a new wave of Linux users which aren't the ones I have always known, users that don't see Gimp as one of the main flags they have to defend... This is new to me...) There two types of posts : Professionals that really need to work very fast and be able to cover very specific professional areas (you need specific features, not eons-taking workarounds that in some cases wont even allow the thing fully). And to them I'd say: Yeah, if you are wanting to do it all with a graphic app, like you'd do it in Win/Mac world, then I'd agree with you, totally. What I don't get is posts from Linux passionate users that use these apps for hobbies, or, as an additional tool which is not the main focus of their pro activity, so is not critical if they are only in a 85% of their counterparts. If really loving the platform, they should do like a lot of linux users do: Help the app grow, do tutorials, etc. For this type of activity those are really usable, right now, I know from long experience.

 

But IMO, putting the blame or responsibility of this very complex and difficult situation of (part of) the graphic software in Linux to an specific Mac based (and since not that long, also Windows  I mean in the Affinity line, only) company, seems crazy to me. I mean, they surely have their (not Adobe sized) funds risk strategy, and they can't go crazy with money/human resources...

 

And my 2c too, but it is not impossible. We have seen what happened with Firefox, Wings3D, Blender, LibreOffice, (my jewels of the crown, even with their  certain disadvantages) etc. It seems is possible to make open source software 100% or at least 95% of the needed quality to use those in commercial environments, and supply the lacking 5% with good effort in techniques from the users. Same as I do with mid and low cost software (which of course I also do with free alternatives). Heck, I have modeled EVERYTHING with Wings3D at different companies, same speed or more than my staff colleagues. I do render entire scenes quite realistic with Blender for very varied uses. My office package is LibreOffice (and all of this, in Windows, as those are all cross platform) And well, I use both Firefox and Chrome much more than the other ones. (an ex front-end web designer have a tendency to have every browser installed, tho...) 

AD, AP and APub. V1.10.6 and V2.4 Windows 10 and Windows 11. 
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10 Pro.
(Laptop) HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5, nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 pen display, Windows 11 Pro.

 

 

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