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1 minute ago, Argo said:

Well, time will tell.

Indeed it will, but the real "story" here is about numbers. There are a great many more Mac & Windows users than Linux ones that are likely to buy inexpensive, no-subscription graphics software like the Affinity ones, so I doubt Serif has anything to worry about until such time as that market becomes saturated.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Just want to add a voice to those calling for Linux versions of the Affinity Suite.

I can drag out the old tale of how I am disillusioned with Apple, or how Windows is not Unix enough for me.

I can drag that out, and it would be true, but the real thing for me is that with the presence of very useable (even pleasant!) distros like Mint and PopOS, and with the range of software now available for these distros Linux is a real desktop alternative. The one thing that is missing is a good graphics package. GIMP does not cut it and neither does Inkscape.

If Serif was present in this space they would be alone, and they would be singlehandedly making the platform a more viable choice for technically-inclined graphic designers such as myself. Kid yourself not, there are a lot of us. The beauty of PopOS combined with access to a proper suite of graphics tools could push many of us over the edge.

There are two things I like in my computer world right now, PopOS and the Affinity Suite.

I cannot and will not attempt to instruct Serif on the economics of the thing, but one way or another I am migrating to PopOS out of despair of my other options and Apple's once-fabulous hardware.

I am begging Serif to come with me, and I can't be alone.

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43 minutes ago, Silas said:

I am begging Serif to come with me, and I can't be alone.

A lot of people have similar stories to yours. And while we (Linux crowd) understand the palette of reasons and benefits, from an outside perspective it still sounds like a choice you could have not made, i.e. complaining. The old comment by Patrick illustrates this well:

On 3/1/2017 at 12:53 PM, Patrick Connor said:

This discussion is a bit like this. "I used to live in France, but I decided I liked the look of Germany, it suits me better in so many ways. Disney have built a Disneyland in Paris, France, and although there are some fairly good parks in Germany there is nothing like a Disneyworld Germany at the moment. Please build one. I would pay the entrance fee and so would my friends."

This is of course a charged statement because Affinity makes tools that you use monthly, weekly, or sometimes daily. Disneyworld is something you'd visit between zero and one times. So a better comparison would be to move to a different city that has no fast food companies, and asking if McDonalds, KFC, Subway or Chipotle to open shop in your city. But the statement does show what it sounds like when you ask for Serif on Linux after stating that you're moving away from Apple.

I think (happy) Windows/MacOS users don't appreciate the 'sacrifice' (i.e. comfy availability of commercial software) you've made, because they don't understand the accumulation of things that make it worth it.

Even then, if you're switching to Linux full-time it probably means that you have grown accustomed to it for the past 5+ years, and have gotten acquainted with the general community mindset of getting everything to run on everything. This is in stark contrast with - generalizing from the loudest comments here - Windows (and especially) MacOS users, that seem to appreciate exclusivity while they are a part of it.

I guess the move from MacOS to Windows already incurred a loss of exclusivity and some angered responses over that were heard at the time too. The MacOS "creatives" had already suffered a dilution of their community with Windows "mainstreamers". And now they should welcome the Linux "zealots"? Hell no. Linux is the opposite of exclusivity, because everyone can install it on everything, for free. That can't be good or sustainable. It will infect everything it touches and turn it into the same ugly GTK+ muck we know Linux to be. (This paragraph is a dramatization from the perspective of a Linuxphobe.)

What I'm trying to say is that you, and the many before you, need a different story that appeals to the target audience (not the choir) more. I'm not sure it's possible though.

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Well,

You avoided my main point, but really I think you guys are over-analysing this whole thing.

I want Serif to build stuff for my OS of choice because on that OS I have everything I want but one thing ... Serifs excellent and sensibly priced and marketed software. While making my argument I think that there are benefits to Serif, so I mention that. The only real argument from the customer side for building the thing is that there is a market for it. I think there is.  The rest is up to them. I am here to be counted.

If I said nothing then that would be dumb.
If I dug holes in the argument for what I want then that too would be dumb.

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2 hours ago, Silas said:

I want Serif to build stuff for my OS of choice ...

There are many more people (than the linux market people) who want Serif to make Right to Left text work. There are many many more who want CJK language support. Serif can make far more money by working on those two problems than they can by porting over to to the linux market.


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Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.7.3 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Photo Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.8.0.518

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3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

There are many more people (than the linux market people) who want Serif to make Right to Left text work. There are many many more who want CJK language support. Serif can make far more money by working on those two problems than they can by porting over to to the linux market.

I think that's a statement without basis, the last one. However I agree with the core of the argument, serif is better off fixing the current issues (like the expand stroke bug, we'll soon reach 5 years since it's been first reported) than expanding into a new market. However I also have to poke holes at serifs previously mentioned accomplishments. Why boast about a platformless application core if you're not going to have it available on all platforms?


Mădălin Vlad
Graphic Designer

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Quote

Metal: so what? There are a number of cross-platform accelerated rendering APIs, and cross-platform UI toolkits. Some of them more accessible and/or as efficient as "Metal" or other "UI kits". I wager that these bindings don't form the whole of the API behind Affinity, otherwise it wouldn't exist on Windows.

One of the real big missed opportunity in the Linux market is an OS is (A LOT) more than a Kernel. But Linus, has little interest beyond the Kernel.

Windows, and even much more so, the MacOS offers a very complete framework with strong development tools to back it. Each of them well integrated and pre-tested, with symmetric APIs. What I've noticed in the Mac market is 1 programmer can readily pull off a well polished application, where in the Linux would it take a large team... with worse results. QT isn't even a fraction of the scale of the MacOS frameworks.  

On Metal. First, Metal was 2-3 years first to market before a similar open source library (Vulkan) was available. Should Apple wait for committees to catch up, or just innovate ahead? Second, just like Nvidia has Cuda, Microsoft has directX, Apple has Metal. People never give Nvidia a hard time for Cuda, so why complain about Apple? It turns out Apple is the largest GPU manufacturer in the world today, delivering 200-400 Million iPhone GPUs per year. They want to control their technology destiny like everybody else..

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...at least there must be an argument why most of the bigger players in software aren’t publishing their programs for the Linux world: Steinberg (Cuba’s, Wavelab, Spectral Layers...), Grass Valley (Edius), Adobe... and no popular solution for inventory management with the same functional range than Windows is available.

There must be an inhibiting factor that count more than all the Linux user promises: Cashflow.

As a company you have to generate sales to pay your employees.

The experience and the environment with the Linux community speaks at least a different language: All that’s not for free and with visible source code cannot be trustful and worth a look...

To be clear: this is not valid to ALL Linux users and surely there will be an amount of users willing to buy.

Also the many different Linux distribution might be a brick...too much support...

For myself: Yes, I would support Serif if they make a Linux version and still I am waiting for other professional solutions come to this plattform. At least since these excruciating Windows 10 updates and upgrades and these massive quality problems. And there is a need of an alternative OS without cloud pressure and this SaaS thing...

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Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2019 at 12:41 AM, Mark Ingram said:

This thread is popular, but ultimately we've only had a fraction of a percent of people request a Linux version so far. Now, if this post had 20,000 people in it, we'd be clamouring to build for Linux...

You should check out what is currently happening on Adobe's feature request site:

https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/36257581-yes-please-support-linux-this-would-be-a-huge-m

As of this post, they have 10,822 votes to create a Linux version. 

The next highest voted feature request on that form only has 1,366 (that's down by a factor of x8).  The majority of the other request have less than 300 votes.

(I follow that thread closely, and they see an average of about 200-300 additional votes for this request every month).*   The overwhelming majority of those votes (over 10,000) have come in since this last December (2018). I know the sticker price for Serif going through the Linux port has gone up, but bare with me on this:

At one point at the beginning of this thread a moderator mentioned that Serif would only consider a Linux port if they could reasonably guarantee that they would make back the roughly $500,000 it would cost them to do. Well, as Adobe's site proves there are at least 10,822 people who are clamoring for some kind of professional design software option on Linux (a void Adobe is still unwilling to fill):

10,822 x $50 = $541,000

Allowing that the number of people who actually have voted on that thread merely represents a marginal snap shot of the demand out there, I think it may be well with in Serif's interest to look at this with some seriousness.

The free /open source image processing solutions available on Linux are closing the gap at a fairly steady pace (all of these options are available on Windows, and Mac as well) but they do still have a little ways to go (as a person who has made a living with design software for over 15 years, I think I am qualified to say that they do not have as far to go as you might think).  Affinity and Adobe, I believe, would be wise to try to overshadow the void these free solutions are threatening to someday fill, sooner, rather than later.

 

* This particular feature request thread on Adobe's site is specifically for Premiere Pro (Adobe's non linear video editor), however, if you read through any single page on the thread, you'll quickly realize that what they are really asking for is support for the entire Adobe suite (Ironically, there already is a professional non linear editing package available for Linux - a solution that strongly competes with the capabilities of Premiere Pro: Blackmagic Design's Davinci Resolve). If you read through any page on the Adobe thread, you'll also see the common refrain that we Linux fan's are so familiar with - the only reason that these people are still using Mac or Windows is because Adobe is not supported on Linux (Serif, if you do any digging around the internet, you'll find this sentiment echoed over and over again). 

Serif, your software can sooooo compete with Adobe's.  Don't you want to try to steal an untapped market from underneath them?

Edited by Dradis
grammar correction

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Posted (edited)
On 7/17/2019 at 12:00 AM, Rainer Smetan said:

Also the many different Linux distribution might be a brick...too much support... 

But now we have Snap and Flatpack which can greatly simplify the challenge of managing app deployment across the countless Linux distros.

The other thing Serif can do,  if needed (again, I think Snap and Flatpack can potentially negate the need to do this) they only have to officially support one distribution (this is what Blackmagic is currently doing with DaVinci Resolve).  Even without these new cross platform package managers, If the software works well on say Ubuntu or Mint, then the Linux community will quickly workout how to get it to work nicely on Fedora, Open-suse, etc. Serif only needs to be officially accountable for one.

Edited by Dradis

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On 7/17/2019 at 8:00 AM, Rainer Smetan said:

Also the many different Linux distribution might be a brick...too much support...

I do not think it is necessary to complicate things at the beginning. Some time I bought AutoPano Giga from Kolor which is advanced panorama stitching tool. It was also available for linux but as I know nobody of the commercial companies cares about some "exotic" distros and most users would probably have some mainstream distros. 

It is common to support 64bit linux systems using DEB packages (e.g. Debian / Ubuntu) and RPM ones (Red Hat Enterprise / CentOS / Suse / OpenSuse) which are also use in companies / institutions / studios - you can check how for example Microsoft does it with Skype or SoftMaker with Softmaker Office for linux.

Besides, there are also the universal package solutions and things like appimage (Avidemux uses it for example).

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Yass, different distro support is no problem if u make a snappy package, flatpak or appimage. Myself I do prefer the Snappy. It's so simple, and brings several Windows apps to Linux - ready configured with a individual tweaked Wine setup. It's like majic.

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Latest (almost 1 year old) post from one of their admins (called Patrick! ....   ) is quite revealing, IMO. To paste some significant chunks here...  :

That said, a word of caution: while this item is now at the top due to a person with a good following on Twitter creating awareness, it doesn’t mean it immediately becomes our top priority. It’s been voted for since April, and never made it to the top 100 before this dramatic surge on Dec 11th.

And yet another word of caution in an attempt to set expectations correctly: while we’re gonna use this request as another trigger to redo market analysis for the need to port to linux, it’s been true for many years that the vast majority of our user base wouldn’t consider it as an alternative to currently supported platforms. Unless that has changed significantly, keeping the balance between dealing with other request versus adding another platform might not make it viable to add support for linux.

As I’ve worked for a company doing Win, MacOS and Linux prior to joining Adobe, I’ll add a bit of color to this request: doing Linux isn’t really about adding one OS, it’s at least several, if not many. Putting software that’s demanding on CPU, GPU and then some onto a linux system means developing and testing against several of the major flavours if you expect great results.
It’s also true that our large partner eco-system is mostly not on Linux today, so you’d be losing a ton of functionality outside the core application for years to come.

In a nutshell: this isn’t a simple thing to do – but we’re gonna take another hard look as to what’s the demand as I already mentioned above.

Stay tuned – and thanks again for coming to this forum to voice your ideas.

 

Now, make of it (if you are seasoned/smart enough to extract the message from the obligated politeness and tone of an official post) what ever you would prefer. That said, for someone making video/FX/motion graphics stuff, unless needing special coordination with existing clients fully Adobe based (a very, very common problem, also in static 2D, DTP, etc), or, needing very specific features, I don't see a point in going there, and a lot of sense in enrolling the Davinci Resolve/Fusion road. For career reasons, that is,  getting into a staff and company, heck no, as always, that's Adobe, no matter what (in general).

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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On 10/1/2019 at 12:41 PM, SrPx said:

extract the message from the obligated politeness and tone of an official post

Agreed with SrPx.  Adobe, by all outward signs, is not very interested in this (and, honestly, I can understand why).     However, my point, in pointing towards the Adobe site, is to demonstrate that there really, truly, is demand for paid design software on the Linux platform.   While, I'm not holding my breath for Adobe, I can feel pent up demand among my fellow content creators.   Many, really, really, don't want Windows and they are also, increasingly, becoming less enamored with Apple and its locked in hardware.   I understand that the traditional metrics that one might look to in evaluating Linux's role in the marketplace won't show this...but I believe that those metrics are looking in the wrong place.    I feel that there is an opportunity for Serif.  The demand being demonstrated on the Adobe site is the most immediate evidence that I have on hand.  

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Hi there,

here I am ...

I've got the complete package (Photo, Designer, Publisher) for WIndows and it is great, but I would buy it again, if it's availlable for Linux. Because of - uhhh - it's Windows.

My workflow is more Linux based so I would be happy to use your tools there. If I have a tool set like Affinity, my needs to start Windows will tend to zero.

So please add me as a Linux using customer.

Edited by greye

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On 7/15/2019 at 3:17 PM, Silas said:

Just want to add a voice to those calling for Linux versions of the Affinity Suite.

I can drag out the old tale of how I am disillusioned with Apple, or how Windows is not Unix enough for me.

I can drag that out, and it would be true, but the real thing for me is that with the presence of very useable (even pleasant!) distros like Mint and PopOS, and with the range of software now available for these distros Linux is a real desktop alternative. The one thing that is missing is a good graphics package. GIMP does not cut it and neither does Inkscape.

If Serif was present in this space they would be alone, and they would be singlehandedly making the platform a more viable choice for technically-inclined graphic designers such as myself. Kid yourself not, there are a lot of us. The beauty of PopOS combined with access to a proper suite of graphics tools could push many of us over the edge.

There are two things I like in my computer world right now, PopOS and the Affinity Suite.

I cannot and will not attempt to instruct Serif on the economics of the thing, but one way or another I am migrating to PopOS out of despair of my other options and Apple's once-fabulous hardware.

I am begging Serif to come with me, and I can't be alone.

Just wanted to say that I agree 100% with what you're saying. I feel exactly the same and I am also one of the ones who would like to make the change to Linux but are still depended on this crappy creative suite.

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