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7 hours ago, fde101 said:

Personally I would rather have a port to Haiku OS

Why Haiku OS?
What is special about it?
I would love to know!

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1 minute ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

Why Haiku OS?

What is special about it?

It is basically an open-source BeOS clone.  Very responsive and rather unique.  I kind of liked BeOS and while Haiku is currently on their first beta release (after having been in alpha for years) the project overall looks very promising.  BeOS was originally designed with media creation in mind and was advertised as a "media OS" - it is built around multithreading to the point that no matter how busy the system gets it always seems to respond immediately to user actions, even if playing back a back-then-impressive number of simultaneous video and audio files and performing other tasks in the background.

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52 minutes ago, R C-R said:

The developers have said that the "core code" was developed from the beginning to be platform-independent...

I vagely remember they once said somewhere that their backend part has at least been build in a portable manner.

However, yes there are a lot of differences between the different OS'es here, especially in terms of what those offer in frameworks for OS related reusability in look & view and certain other aspects (graphics drawing, event handling, color management, printing, resource handling and storage locations, used third party libraries ...and so on...). - In other words, there is no real "build one and run everywhere" approach for in native code written software in order to be cross-platform compatible, which makes things too a lot harder and difficult here.

Even in the Apple universe alone there are differences between MacOS and iOS here. - It's sadly not like in the past with NeXTStep/OpenStep, as one capable OS available for different CPU hardware platforms (Motorolla, Intel, Sun, HP) and building fat binaries (multiarchitecture binaries) which would then run on all workstation hardware platforms without much hazzles. - Or even as the Java approach here, running everywhere where the coresponding Java Runtime Environment and JVM for different platforms is implemented and available.


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2 hours ago, fde101 said:

the project overall looks very promising

That’s good to know, but ... did you like my haiku? ears.gif


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1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

I vaguely remember they once said somewhere that their backend part has at least been build in a portable manner.

 


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@alfred No AFAI remember I haven't read that here in the forum, also not from the affinity-review-issue-1/2 or from this statement here ...

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Ashley Hewson, Managing Director of Affinity developer Serif, says: ...“Almost all our back-end code was designed to work regardless of the operating system, which delivers 100% perfect file compatibility between the two platforms. ..." ...

... since it was a slightly more dev technical one, which also named front- and back-end programming tasks and C/C++ and Obj-C programming skills etc. - So I believe it was maybe instead from some developer hiring site, something similar like LinkedIn or the like.


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https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/p/ubuntu/9nblggh4msv6
maybe the Windows Subsystem for Linux helps when you want to seamlessly want to switch between Linux and Windows? Its only the Ubuntu Terminal  so I have 0 idea if its useful or not.

 


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I don't think so.... Two reasons: The people complaining more are clearly not terminal-only users. Mostly, they are used doing absolutely everything on Linux (from listening to music, browsing, watching movies, coding, doing Libre Office work, etc....), and not wishing to even boot Windows for anything, that part has been made specially clear. See how they speak about having all to his comfort (last posters are not the first ones to say so, practically all used very similar points), till every detail in their OS of choice. Meaning...everything, every app, every GUI....That doesn't match with just a term (I doubt you could run startx in that MS terminal, but I don't know that MS thingy). These new users are mostly using desktop graphic apps, from what I am seeing. Or at least, wouldn't want a system (or "subsystem") totally negating the use of them. Is not the terminal what they love more of it, this generation, imo. Second reason :The main motivation of many of going Linux way,  and even more the case of the ppl that is in Linux since 5 years (imo, less the case of those from early 90s Linux versions), is to run away like heck from MS and Windows, at all costs, clearly.  And this has been a constant in this 5 miles long thread. Almost all put a very strong emphasis in that very point, over any other reason.  They hate MS doing this "evil" move, so, I have my doubts they'll be happily embrace anything of this...


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2 hours ago, SrPx said:

I don't think so.... (...) The main motivation of many of going Linux way (...) is to run away like heck from MS and Windows, at all costs, clearly. (...) They hate MS doing this "evil" move

Previously you calmed your statements a bit. However, it becomes somewhat apparent again that somehow you're quite bitter towards Linux users, and are not free from ancient preconceptions yourself.

Running away from MS at all costs is not the point. I don't think anyone said that here. To illustrate, VS Code is one of the best IDE's for Linux. It's the biggest project on Github. And it's owned by MS. I think you've internalized a '90s sentiment. Things have changed a lot since then.

Also they don't "hate MS doing this evil move". No one said that, in fact, many applaud this development. MS cooperated with Canonical to develop that subsystem for linux, and you can get Ubuntu apps from the Windows store. They don't always perform as good as running native, kinda like using Wine under linux but then the other way around.

Moreover, MS's next Operating System for small devices will not be based on Windows, but based on Linux. And just like they stopped developing the Edge browser and decided to use the open source Chromium project as a backend to the Edge user interface, many speculate that, since MS main source of income is their web services, and since they contribute more and more to the Linux kernel, in 10 years Windows itself too will be another flavor of Linux.

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My points were completely calmed: You seem to prefer to read more than there is into people's posts (maybe a victimizing agenda? ). I don't have any special feeling towards an OS,  good or bad, believe it or not. I only care about what can I run on an OS, and how can it be configured for my professional activity, full stop. Absolutely nothing more, believe it or not.  While I have read from quite some people in several threads around here that they want to stay very far from Windows ( and remember, I count on a wide number of personal friends, very good friends, that virtually breath Linux), as if it had some contagious sickness in it. (I can start quoting here all the sentences from many in a 12 pages thread, and from a bunch of other threads in this community . In my last post, in no way I was referring to this specific thread and posts, btw, indeed, I was NOT thinking about these entire forums. But in what I read in general in social media, forums, articles, etc,etc, etc, today, and also, the vast experience and contact I have had in personal life and jobs, with Linux people) it would become very self evident. I invite you to really read, or at least skim through it, you would realize I am not making up anything at all. I wasn't pointing at you in any moment, but if you have been careful and polite, that does not change others' posts .  If you have not read the entire thread, that's fine, is too long, I totally understand that. But I have been here since it started, been reading the posts of this one and so many other threads of which I am right now starting to be not so sure that you have read, if you are so sure that linux users have not spoken like that about MS and Windows. And that'd be just here, while in that last post from mine, I was not talking about "here", and BTW, in no way willing to attack anyone, specially not linux users (some of my best friends don't even want to boot in windows to open a file with a very legacy Windows app, even if there was a really bad negative effect on their life not doing so. And I would have never thought in attacking them for so many things like that. My post above was a veeery calmed "I don't get it but to each his own", but you took it quite wrong, it seems.

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Previously you calmed your statements a bit. However, it becomes somewhat apparent again that somehow you're quite bitter towards Linux users, and are not free from ancient preconceptions yourself.

You really don't realize which is my background, and till what extent, yet. Neither my actual real position about Linux and Linux users, from what I can clearly see. Fine.

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Running away from MS at all costs is not the point. I don't think anyone said that here. 

I could start quoting the so ( I never said you, btw) , so many sentences, so many posts in this long thread, and the many others from Linux users complaining about not seeing a port done, or  heck, so, so many places on internet. But would be tiring, and I'm busy today to go to that extent. Indeed, even with the linked evidence, I'm starting to doubt you would admit the existence of those...

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Also they don't "hate MS doing this evil move". No one said that

Read just some pages ago where the Linux Sucks video was posted (hmmm...wait, now not sure if it was in this very thread, there are so many about  this... anyway, again, wasn't speaking about this thread, but in general), and what the lecturer, in a room full of Linux users who came to hear, laugh in agreement and clap,  thinks about that MS move (heck, check his #1 point, is all about MS. Most of his video is) , and even more, how his audience agrees so much with him. I was NOT talking about this thread's Linux users, specifically, if you read it carefully,  it was a generic way of speaking, with no sentiment at all, good or bad, tho you want to make it now specific. About the 90s feeling, yeah, I might have been an intense user SINCE then, not just by then, been a user till almost 2014. I know the deal of linux better than several so proclaimed Linux users here, who dare to tell me that I am not also a Linux user, or that I don't know what's going on. LOL!  You would be surprised.  I have not it installed now, but that's another thing.

About what sense or vibe I can have about Linux users. I told here. Besides I've been using it longer than a lot of the most passionate linux users around, is the fact that I have worked fully with it at two companies, not just using it as  my personal machine, but my skills there being critical to get food to the plate, 1 year in one, 8 years in another. Being Linux my bread and butter every day, and dealing with it at levels a lot of users don't handle today.  If that wasn't enough,  I told as well, how I spent, dunno, probably since 2001 till around 2015 going out every freaking weekend (initially my back then girlfriend was in one of these groups), that meant often Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, and  with a pair of groups of friends which were ALL Linux users. And very passionate about it, each one from a different professional world, some young students, and others of my age. We could talk all night every Saturday and Friday as we were just computer geeks, there were always jokes towards the ( yep, I was the only one) Windows guy, but always very friendly. So, if we're gonna speak about the 90s sentiment, I'd say it'd help my point, as I've observed quite an opposite direction. Back then, what I could observe, their point was quite gentle, and it was all just a joke, in the worst case. Not what I'm seeing lately.(not among them, my friends. If anything, several use ALSO Windows now)

It seems to me that you have a very strong interest in making this a confrontation with me or others,  not sure if related with Serif seeming not inclined to be making that port any time soon.. .But look, that's not our call, is theirs.

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many speculate that, since MS main source of income is their web services, and since they contribute more and more to the Linux kernel, in 10 years Windows itself too will be another flavor of Linux.

Sure of that ? Well, I don't know, in technology or economy I've learnt not to make predictions. Seen the best at it failing miserably. Time will tell. Where we (and technology) will be in 10 years from now, tho....


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1 hour ago, Redsandro said:

... many speculate that, since MS main source of income is their web services ...

From everything I can find on the subject, there is no single "main source" of Microsoft's income. It varies by how the numbers are sliced & diced, but overall it looks like in recent quarters about 1/3 of it comes from what could loosely be categorized as "web services."


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1 hour ago, SrPx said:

I could start quoting the (...) so many sentences (...) from Linux users complaining about not seeing a port done.

Not disputing that a port was requested. I myself did. I was responding to the subject that "maybe the Windows Subsystem for Linux helps" and your response in particular: "I don't think so. The main motivation is to run away from MS and Windows, at all costs, clearly. They hate MS doing this evil move".

I don't think that's true. I think this is actually the one popular move. But for you it's "clear". Set in stone. Your personal and friends' Linux experience don't change the meaning of your words.

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I never said you, btw

I apologize. You use a lot of "they" while earlier referring to "last posters are not the first ones to say so". So indeed I assumed you were talking about me in particular, and haven't read carefully enough to see the scope of the subject changed.

I have read this entire thread. But not others. So I wouldn't know about that. I also haven't watched that long video. You might be right about that.

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It seems to me that you have a very strong interest in making this a confrontation with me or others,  not sure if related with Serif seeming not inclined to be making that port any time soon.. .But look, that's not our call, is theirs.

This thread is no longer about the Serif port. I'm just trying to maintain a little sidebar in a stream of judgement. Not specifically you.  You're quite the author of lengthy posts though. Giving me food for thought. I read them all. You have an interesting history with many OSes. I guess I'm unhappy with the sentiment recent Linux users have given you.

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Time will tell. Where we (and technology) will be in 10 years from now, tho....

Yes I don't know either. But I find it interesting to point out these developments.

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

From everything I can find on the subject, there is no single "main source" of Microsoft's income. It varies by how the numbers are sliced & diced, but overall it looks like in recent quarters about 1/3 of it comes from what could loosely be categorized as "web services."

You are correct actually. I took a leap on the future and missed an important clarification: ...main source of income is expected to be web services (Azure).

I'm sure you saw that Windows OEM revenue is around 10 billion. Azure web services revenue is around 10 billion. They are about in the same ballpark. However, the annual revenue growth for OEM is about 7 - 14%. For Azure that is 98% from 2017 and 89% from 2018. They overtook AWS. This will clearly be their biggest source of income. At least that's what people, especially those in the business of speculating and assuming things, are assuming. You can tell me I was wrong 12 months from now. But I don't have any Microsoft stock anyway. Maybe I should...

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16 hours ago, v_kyr said:

@alfred No AFAI remember I haven't read that here in the forum, also not from the affinity-review-issue-1/2 or from this statement here ...

... since it was a slightly more dev technical one, which also named front- and back-end programming tasks and C/C++ and Obj-C programming skills etc. - So I believe it was maybe instead from some developer hiring site, something similar like LinkedIn or the like.

The following post, perhaps, or another one like it?

 


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3 hours ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

The following post, perhaps, or another one like it?

Good point, it could have been Stack Overflow!  - {:226_penguin:}


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5 hours ago, Redsandro said:

You are correct actually. I took a leap on the future and missed an important clarification: ...main source of income is expected to be web services (Azure).

None of the numbers clearly support that. For one thing, Azure's annualized growth is slowing, so realistic projections need to take that into account. For another, there is no way of knowing what the other players will do going forward that slows Azure's growth even more or how effective that will be.


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Hello all,

I am aware that Serif has no plan for linux. Serif also shows every new release that they are open minded, that they listen to their users and our feedbacks. The main purpose of this forum is for them to listen to their customers, for us to give them our feedback.

  • As a customer and fan of Affinity, I give a BIG +1 for Affinity on linux.
  • As a professionnal developper I know that this is not a small job.

I own Mac, PC with both Linux and Windows, I rent linux servers. I have a good experience with all this stuff due to my job.

  • As a developer, linux stands above everything else for my usage. In the same way there are different pogramming languages for different usages, there are different OS for different people.
  • As a developer, Affinity is a perfect fit for me. The right balance between ease of use and powerfulness.
  • As a developer, I own more than 3000$ worth of software and something like 5000$ of hardware because I know the value of good software and because I spend most of my life in front of a screen. 
  • As a developer, people listen to my advices. A friend of mine bought Affinity Photo following my lead, my wife owns both affinity photo and designer.

So I think developers are a good target audience for Serif.

This thread is not about Linux vs OSX vs Windows, it is about Affinity for Linux.

If you want to defend Serif's stance on the topic, I am not sure you are in a position to do so - except if you are part of  Serif corp.

The fact that this forum exists and that this thread still is alive is proof they want to listen to their users. So make Serif a favor: let their users express their point of view on the topic and don't pollute their feedbacks with trollish comments about "Is Linux Professionnal, is it a crappy OS, does my mother prefer windows over Linux ...."

 

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If you want to defend Serif's stance on the topic, I am not sure you are in a position to do so - except if you are part of  Serif corp.

It is all about freedom of speech. And considering/debating the characteristics and status of the OS (and its current apps ecosystem) for certain uses is totally relevant. The thought of that not being so, totally your personal opinion, which I/we respect. But is an opinion more. Now, calling a large group of people's opinions, each one with different takes at it, childish and trollish, well, that's an insult itself, plain and simple. And that only moderators and you or people in your line of thought are the ones allowed to speak... Well, how could I describe that... If anything, enforcing that, is a moderators' role itself (what can a user/member say or not say) not your privilege...

PD: Yep, they listen to their users... the childish and trollish? windows and mac users are mostly their users (BTW, the promotion/advice, that's really nice of you... I have convinced a larger number of people to purchase Affinity's licenses, though...)...They'll surely hear as well the linux users running Affinity apps by dual boot, that's almost for certain. Now, which is the percentage of their user base doing so... Well. That's another thing.


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That said, I really liked the other part of your post (I completely agreed till your "So I think developpers are a good target audience for Serif.", which I subscribe, too). The promotion of Affinity, the balanced opinion about OSes : I completely share the feel and opinion of Linux being a great OS (as in a different way, Mac OSX is, too. I really like it), and even necessary in the world. I''ve written quite a bunch of code for the web at some companies, tho am not a developer, yet I know how while at work the fields do overlap constantly. And at my latest company, I really wished my coder mates doing the JS and Ruby were at least basically savvy in that too, at least to handle basic operations, just like I could handle well ROR, GIT, the linux terminal and desktop and other stuff. Gimp was the solution every time, but we also had mac only developers, so, no solution there as somehow those didn't like Gimp while the WIndows and Linux users were somehow fine with it, and the company would not be in the line of purchasing an Adobe license per every seat. Affinity and its price per app back then would have been amazing. I have a mixed opinion about the whole matter, but I guess all what does not fit a very specific agenda is childish...IMO that's part of the problem, here.

 

PD: Usually I don't warn about typos (I'm Spanish, you are probably French, we're all constantly learning English) but I see it repeated, so I thought I'd tell you, as a helping hand Developer has only one "p". You know, I'd never correct anyone's grammar, typos or vocabulary, as I make a ton of mistakes (in every single post)... but I blame this new habit on Alfred... (don't emoticon-cry , Eℓƒяє∂ , it was a compliment,  just Spanish's weird style... )


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1 hour ago, Aurélien said:

This thread is not about Linux vs OSX vs Windows, it is about Affinity for Linux.

Like it or not, that also makes it partially about the impact of developing Linux versions on the ongoing development of the Mac & Windows versions. There may well be a time when that would not have any detrimental effects on the development of those apps, but from what Serif has said, they do not think that time is now or in the immediate future.


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40 minutes ago, SrPx said:

PD: Usually I don't warn about typos (I'm Spanish, you are probably French, we're all constantly learning English) but I see it repeated, so I thought I'd tell you, as a helping hand Developer has only one "p". You know, I'd never correct anyone's grammar, typos or vocabulary, as I make a ton of mistakes (in every single post)... but I blame this new habit on Alfred...

Good catch, I can not hide anymore that I come from France where we spell it "développeur" ^^

Don't take it personnaly, but the whole OSX vs Windows vs Linux debate has been made a thousand times on more specialized forums with more expert people, and it always ends up in troll fights. My intentention was not to insult you or anybody. My point is:
Don't focus on which OS is better,  or which has a brighter future. As a user, are you interested in Affinity for Linux ? Yes / No ? Then trust Serif for the decision.

 

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As a user, are you interested in Affinity for Linux ? Yes / No ?

My answer is YES. My main point is if right now is the best moment possible for it. (even more, a rushed linux port could do more damage than benefit to it, maybe sabotage the linux line...)

Very brief explanation of that, (is a deep matter) is that Affinity line is IMO in a delicate moment (with a ton of work to do in so many fronts, small teams, for all what we can know) when it needs to consolidate first its products. Get a solid name in the pro community, get respect for being stable, bug free and featured enough for a range of professional uses to actually BE on the market. Once there (which I MO might  not be that far), is almost organically natural to expand. Again, it is only my point of view from all what I have seen these years from outside (meaning inside as in the company) as well as watching/testing the evolution of the whole line and its apps.

Still... I think it is extremely healthy and sane to debate the problems in the way for that (even or specially for those hoping for it).... As well as remark the potential advantages (I've gone into quite detail of many ) . I see it complex. 

About letting Serif decide... No doubt or fear about that : They will decide on their own no matter what we'll say (despite considering all the opinions), as any business would. Debating and dialog is never a  bad path, is indeed the only way... (for practically anything human related).

 


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Good catch, I can not hide anymore that I come from France where we spell it "développeur" ^^

A great friend of mine lives and works (great developer) in France, her partner's name is Aurélien ...so, it came fast to mind.... ;)


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Well things might do change over time, who knows the market will show. - BTW, in the past all better graphics hardware platforms were Unix based expensive workstation ones (Silicon Graphics, Apollo, Sun, HP etc.) and most capable graphical software (also bloody expensive) was therefor only available on/for those platforms. Later as plain cheaper consumer hardware got more and more powerful, things did changed over time here and a bunch of former times only for Unix available commercial graphical software was migrated over to PC systems. Ironically nowadays were Unix (aka Linux derivatives, FreeBSD etc.) itself got's cheap most commercial graphical or other specialized software isn't any longer available for Unix based systems (beside maybe OSX).

 


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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Like it or not, that also makes it partially about the impact of developing Linux versions on the ongoing development of the Mac & Windows versions. There may well be a time when that would not have any detrimental effects on the development of those apps, but from what Serif has said, they do not think that time is now or in the immediate future.

Well I am not going to say "Developing Affinity for Linux is easy".

In fact, once you leave alone Electron apps, and you deal with highly optimized, UI rich, software, it is a lot of work to develop for another platform. BUT for developing something like Affinity Designer/Photo for Ipad, I think they have some wizards in their team. A linux version seems far less challenging to me.

Anyway, even if I 100% agree that it is sane to debate, as users we simply have no elements to feed the debate:

  • source code ? How can anybody assess the difficulty of a task without even looking at the source ?
  • resources ? How can anybody say that the development of the windows/OSX/IOS versions will be slowing down when we don't know the team, their skills, the financial health of Serif  ?
  • future ? Nobody can predict the impacts of Wayland, the future of Linux Desktop, MS strategy, Apple / Intel relations ... Technologies are full of surprises :)

As users, all we can do is give an opinion about if we would buy Affinity for Linux. Everything else is biased assumptions and ungrounded predictions.

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