Affinity for Linux

[SrPx]

On 4/6/2020 at 3:00 AM, SomeDev said:

I work as a Web Developer.

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I'm glad you are pretty much an expert in all the possible industries. 

Ehm, you started mentioning which was your job... I believe indeed graphics creation jobs are more relevant to... er, graphic creation. But hey, what do I know.

It gives perspective about very critical things in this particular debate (I explained why in several ways) about graphics creation applications. I'm grateful when I hear the POV from actual professionals when the matter of debate is strongly related to their job (ie, making graphics, not code). If I'm reading a thread about coding in C++, a young newcomer has a valuable opinion which I will consider, but I will definitely want to hear what a C++ programmer with 25 or 30 years of experience has to say, by all means. I know experience does not count cr4p for many of the younger. But it actually does.

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I'm glad you are pretty much an expert in all the possible industries. 

It comes with age and necessity, y'know. Thank you for your compliment.

[SomeDev]

19 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Ehm, you started mentioning which was your job... I believe indeed graphics creation jobs are more relevant to... er, graphic creation. But hey, what do I know.

It gives perspective about very critical things in this particular debate (I explained why in several ways) about graphics creation applications. I'm grateful when I hear the POV from actual professionals when the matter of debate is strongly related to their job (ie, making graphics, not code). If I'm reading a thread about coding in C++, a young newcomer has a valuable opinion which I will consider, but I will definitely want to hear what a C++ programmer with 25 or 30 years of experience has to say, by all means. I know experience does not count cr4p for many of the younger. But it actually does.

It comes with age and necessity, y'know. Thank you for your compliment.

I worked as a designer before moving to Development, also graduated on that field. Which it's a pretty common thing to do, but mostly irrelevant for this discussion. I just mentioned my field to reference what market may find this software interesting which is what matters here. I by no means think I'm an expert or that my opinion should have more weight than others here because I had worked on X or Y. But you do you.

[SrPx]

25 minutes ago, SomeDev said:

I worked as a designer before moving to Development, also graduated on that field. Which it's a pretty common thing to do, but mostly irrelevant for this discussion. I just mentioned my field to reference what market may find this software interesting which is what matters here. I by no means think I'm an expert or that my opinion should have more weight than others here because I had worked on X or Y. But you do you.

If one person has known a bunch of markets by working years at each profile, yes, it adds to the conversation of what apps and OS features are needed on each field (specially in specific and intense scenarios), and why A or B software not being in an OS is absolutely key to consider that OS for each (graphics related) job. But you went straight to an Ad Hominem attack, instead of the reasoning I brought. 

[SomeDev]

42 minutes ago, SrPx said:

If one person has known a bunch of markets by working years at each profile, yes, it adds to the conversation of what apps and OS features are needed on each field (specially in specific and intense scenarios), and why A or B software not being in an OS is absolutely key to consider that OS for each (graphics related) job. But you went straight to an Ad Hominem attack, instead of the reasoning I brought. 

No one knows all markets just by having a few jobs on them. Coleagues on the same field could already have different experiences.

Edited April 8, 2020 by SomeDev
Grammar also, stuff

[Juan T]

Affinity team, I bought Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher and will buy all of them when a Linux version comes out.  

[justajeffy]

Hi.  I don't want to add to any argument.

I'm just here to say that I pledge to buy a minimum of 10 copies of Affinity Photo for Linux if/when it becomes available.

Not only that, but for a Linux version, I'd be happy to pay 5-6x the amount that is currently being charged for the Windows version.  The company credit card is burning a whole in my pocket just waiting to be used for exactly this kind of purchase.  I'd buy as many as 50 copies depending on the cost, but definitely 10 copies at MINIMUM no matter what.

As for distro compatibility, just follow the VFX reference platform and I'm happy.  (Probably go with RHEL/CentOS 7 if you want to follow what companies like Autodesk or The Foundry support.)

 

[SomeDev]

52 minutes ago, justajeffy said:

Hi.  I don't want to add to any argument.

I'm just here to say that I pledge to buy a minimum of 10 copies of Affinity Photo for Linux if/when it becomes available.

Not only that, but for a Linux version, I'd be happy to pay 5-6x the amount that is currently being charged for the Windows version.  The company credit card is burning a whole in my pocket just waiting to be used for exactly this kind of purchase.  I'd buy as many as 50 copies depending on the cost, but definitely 10 copies at MINIMUM no matter what.

As for distro compatibility, just follow the VFX reference platform and I'm happy.  (Probably go with RHEL/CentOS 7 if you want to follow what companies like Autodesk or The Foundry support.)

 

They could also publish it through Flatpak as Gravit Designer and Jetbrains are doing which make would give them a easy port to all distros.

[MeatRadiator]

I'm moving to linux as well.. Make it happen guys.. Port your awesome programs!!!

[tominglis]

I've bought Photo, Designer and Publisher for use on my Mac Mini (which I use as a secondary computer for compiling iOS apps, for running any software that doesn't work on Ubuntu, and in case my laptop dies).

I'd really like to buy them for use on my main laptop, which runs Ubuntu 20.04. Please add support for Ubuntu in future!

I would also buy it for my employees and family members who run Ubuntu.

I think it would do well commercially, and enable more people to switch to the platform.

[Honza Cerny / chemiX]

Maybe a kickstarter campaign could be a good indicator of how much interest there is in Linux support.

[justajeffy]

That's an interesting idea.  Have the community foot the bill up front for the development cost of porting to Linux.  If the campaign doesn't succeed and doesn't get funded they could at least say that they tried.  Look at the success of crowd funding things like Blender, for instance.  Works out pretty well for them.. and us.

[ashf]

Like I mentioned, Serif won't run any fundraising campaign and has no interest.
Though users could run a campaign and donate to Serif by them self.

 

[justajeffy]

Donating money to a private company in hopes that maybe, possibly they might consider giving us what we want? That doesn't make any sense.  I would only contribute to a campaign run by them for the express purpose of funding development.

Also, I seriously doubt that they'd need to raise 5 million to port an existing application.  That's absurd.  Without taking into account things like management or operational expenses, that'd be enough money to fund between 25-35 full time developers for 2 years.  Craziness.  There's no way that should be required to make a Linux port possible.

[ashf]

37 minutes ago, justajeffy said:

Donating money to a private company in hopes that maybe, possibly they might consider giving us what we want? That doesn't make any sense.  I would only contribute to a campaign run by them for the express purpose of funding development.

Also, I seriously doubt that they'd need to raise 5 million to port an existing application.  That's absurd.  Without taking into account things like management or operational expenses, that'd be enough money to fund between 25-35 full time developers for 2 years.  Craziness.  There's no way that should be required to make a Linux port possible.

Oops sorry, It was half million US dollar that Serif mentioned that's needed to build it.
Wrong digits. I updated my post.

 

[SomeDev]

1 hour ago, ashf said:

Oops sorry, It was half million US dollar that Serif mentioned that's needed to build it.
Wrong digits. I updated my post.

 

So they need to sell as minimum ~10,000 licenses would justify their investment. 

That's only 5,000 ish costumers, keeping in mind that most people would like buy at least two of their products.

That doesn't seem too difficult.

[ashf]

9 minutes ago, SomeDev said:

So they need to sell as minimum ~10,000 licenses would justify their investment. 

That's only 5,000 ish costumers, keeping in mind that most people would like buy at least two of their products.

That doesn't seem too difficult.

There are more than 2 million Affinity users already, so yeah I think it wouldn't be so difficult.
I too would commit to the campaign.

[tominglis]

One of the first posts in this thread  in 2014 was from Affinity and it mentioned WINE:

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WINE is a wonderful project, but I don't think it would work for Affinity - performance is close to native, but support for things like our use of OpenGL / input interaction would take some work. It also assumes a Windows build to map onto WINE libs - which we don't have. You have more chance of convincing us to make a native Linux version than a WINE one.

It's now 2020 and WINE is a much more sophisticated solution, especially because of the investment that Valve has made via Proton and projects like Vulkan / DXVK. There is also a Windows build of all three programmes (I presume the first builds were for macOS?)

From another thread it looks like we are pretty close to having the Affinity programmes running on Linux via WINE.

Would it now be easier for Serif to put one or two developers' time into making sure that their products run well on WINE, without committing to a full Linux port? That way they'd be supporting the community, but also would have an opportunity to see how many Linux users there were.

Edited April 26, 2020 by tominglis

[ashf]

1 minute ago, tominglis said:

One of the first posts in this thread  in 2014 was from Affinity and it mentioned WINE:

It's now 2020 and WINE is a much more sophisticated solution, especially because of the investment that Valve has made via Proton and projects like Vulkan / DXVK.

From another thread it looks like we are pretty close to having the Affinity programmes running on Linux. Would it be easier for Serif to put some time into making sure that their products run well on WINE, without committing to a full Linux port? That way they'd be supporting the community, but also would have an opportunity to see how many Linux users there were.

Wine support at first would be practical I think.

[justajeffy]

I'd buy multiple licenses of a Linux version to be used in our studio, but I doubt that I'd choose to buy any licenses of the Windows version to be used in Linux under Wine.

I think that Wine is cool and all, but if we're going to invest in the software, I need to know it's properly supported on our platform of choice.  Like I said before, I'm even willing to pay significantly more for a Linux version.  A proper one.

[enigma]

I'd like to add my voice to the chorus requesting Linux versions of Affinity software.

I'm in the process of migrating from the Mac to Linux, and one of the few stumbling blocks is around photography software. As a Capture One / Affinity Photo user, it's disappointing that neither is available for Linux, although Capture One's FAQ coyly answers the question with "Currently, the Capture One software is only compatible with macOS and Windows.", which at least gives me hope for the future.

As with some other commenters here, I'm being driven away from Apple by their expensive, locked-down hardware and some odd design choices, e.g. the keyboard fiasco and the touchbar on the MBP.

I've looked at Windows 10 but it's as ugly as ever and has too many privacy and security problems.

I've used Linux off and on since it's earliest days, and every few years I would reevaluate it to see how it was maturing. The last time, a few years ago, I had too much difficulty with driver support and HiDPI displays to persevere. However the maturity of recent distributions has prompted me to look again, and I like what I see.

GPU hardware support has matured greatly, and thanks to Vulcan and Steam, Linux has even turned into a capable gaming platform. I'm not surprised to hear other commenters say that it's the standard platform in the VFX industry.

Hardware vendors are getting on board, with Lenovo and Dell providing certified hardware, System76 creating capable laptops and workstations running their Ubuntu-derived Pop!_OS, and in Europe we have the likes of Tuxedo creating Ubuntu and Manjaro-based laptops.

As other commenters have noted, the introduction of Snap and Flatpak has greatly simplified the question of app distribution, and virtually all of the leading distributions now support both formats as standard.

I've decided to make the jump. I've moved to cross-platform versions of most of my software (e.g. cloud drive, password management, browser,  note-keeping, office apps, productivity tools) and the process was much less painful than expected. I'm currently running both a MacBook Pro and a Linux laptop in parallel, and later in the year I plan to drop the Mac entirely and build a decent Linux workstation.

I really hope that Serif will give an indication that they are willing to join me on the journey. If not, I'll make do with Darktable and GIMP/Glimpse while I wait for something better to come along.

[rnmartinez]

I understand Serif's reluctance, but I just can't let this go. I truly feel that a great option for not just myself, but many would be Linux. I am loving Ubuntu 20.04, and honestly don't to have anything to do with Windows ever again. I have gotten rid of it almost entirely in my home as well as 2 businesses.

At this point, I may have to buy a new PC just to have a half decent Windows 10 box or  Ubuntu + Win 10 barebones VM. I would much rather put that money into Serif's pockets. If you told me right now that I could pre-order a copy of Photo, Designer and Publisher (native Linux, NOT wine) for $200 each, I would pay it immediately.  

 

I am certain that I am not the only one.

[MeatRadiator]

6 hours ago, rnmartinez said:

I understand Serif's reluctance, but I just can't let this go. I truly feel that a great option for not just myself, but many would be Linux. I am loving Ubuntu 20.04, and honestly don't to have anything to do with Windows ever again. I have gotten rid of it almost entirely in my home as well as 2 businesses.

At this point, I may have to buy a new PC just to have a half decent Windows 10 box or  Ubuntu + Win 10 barebones VM. I would much rather put that money into Serif's pockets. If you told me right now that I could pre-order a copy of Photo, Designer and Publisher (native Linux, NOT wine) for $200 each, I would pay it immediately.  

 

I am certain that I am not the only one.

I'm with you mate!

Here is a little song for the team with the title: DO IT, TRY IT 😀

 

[MeatRadiator]

Can you guys see it.. Quite wonderful to see Serif evol into the first really great platform for creators on linux! Freedom well roll for many years to come! Bye Bye Bill and thank you guys for starting to see the revolution in the digital age is now, not tomorrow!

[Requester]

Relating to this topic ...

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Valve drops support for SteamVR on macOS to focus on Linux & Windows

Today Valve made quite a big announcement about the future of VR, including an entire platform being dropped.

In a really short post on the official SteamVR page on Steam, Valve said "SteamVR has ended OSX support so our team can focus on Windows and Linux." with there now being a legacy branch of SteamVR for macOS. This is not long after the release of SteamVR 1.11, the "Spring Cleaning" update on April 20.

Seems odd to see such a big shift announced so abruptly, with no other reasoning. Worth noting though, Valve's own hardware with the Valve Index was never stated as supported on macOS, only "Windows 10, SteamOS, Linux". It's always sad when a platform gets support for anything dropped, which we as Linux gamers know too well, but in this case it's actually a boost for Linux for once.

With Valve now having more resources for Linux (and Windows), we might now see an increase in attention on SteamVR for Linux which has been quite rough. It's also great to see other areas of Valve call out Linux specifically as being a focus for them. We also have the Linux version of Half-Life: Alyx with Vulkan support coming hopefully sometime soon.

Since Linux is open source, as are the drivers for AMD and Intel, it makes sense to continue Linux support. Valve can (and already do) experiment a lot with Linux and pay contractors to work on various things. At times, they can do things quicker on Linux than they can on Windows (and vice versa - some bits don't work on Linux).

As of the March data from the monthly opt-in Steam Survey, 1.29% of people surveyed had a VR kit. The most popular being Oculus Rift S with the HTC Vive close behind. The Valve index already captured quite a big chunk though too at over 10%.

What about a partnership of Affinity with  Valve? Valve may be interested to push their SteamOS (Linux) with great media software.

Their WINE based PROTON is heavily under development, in a partnership valve could make it compatible and to work with the Affinity products.

[iambrad_au]

As an individual, I for one would purchase $1000 worth of Linux licenses and give away the rest as a show of support for a Linux port.

Whilst i appreciate that there would be some effort involved i cant imagine it would be a grand canyon sized jump to port from mac os to Linux.

Charge us double for a Linux version....I'd still pay....hell...I'd day 1 per-order from the moment it was announced.