Affinity for Linux

[Aphility]

A linux version of Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo would honestly be the last thing that is missing for me on a Linux system. Hope this comes at some point.

[Estrobeda]

Yeah, I think it's seriously overdue for a Linux version.

 

I mean, I totally get it that it might take some time to convert the binaries but Windows for me is no longer an option nor is Mac OS since their devices had gotten quite honestly bad, and pricey in my opinion.

Linux (distros, Redhat & Open Suse) the last long term option I have, it's stable, easy to use, free to use, bloat free and most importantly they respect my privacy which Windows definitely does not. Nor do they automatically install junk games and trial softwares (yeah yeah, you can get rid of it but it's a F&$+ pain for a freaking paid OS!!!).

Down to the point. A port to Linux might be to much to ask? If so, an official version that works well on wine or proton shouldn't be to much to ask for.

As it is now, I've found it to be possible to get affinity designer in particular to work on wine, at least somewhat but hell, real pain. I've not tried the photo or publisher version.

The only competitor to affinity on Linux would be Inkscape, and I Love that software but man... They need to work on those layers and snapping. So there's quite frankly not really any competitors directly at affinity's products atm, except for Gimp and Krita.

Akira might even be made entirely from scratch before Affinity comes to Linux XD, which might be a better thing since it's open source but c'mon. 

Linux has pretty much everything except truly amazing art tools and music creation.

Affinity could save one of those.

[My1]

@Estrobeda well I can see why they wont officially do a wine version because then they would quite literally come to w(h)ine when something doesnt work which might not be the fault of serif/affinity.

[Estrobeda]

2 hours ago, My1 said:

@Estrobeda well I can see why they wont officially do a wine version because then they would quite literally come to w(h)ine when something doesnt work which might not be the fault of serif/affinity.

Well, true, still a lot better than nothing and perhaps easier to develop and maintain than a full port if that's the issue.

[SrPx]

On 6/11/2019 at 4:46 AM, Redsandro said:

I simply mean that (a) Patrick quotes (I mean links to posts) are less relevant to me as I stated before because of their prevalence in prepossessed under- or overtone, yet you almost exclusively pick (link to) them, 82% of the time to be precise. I'm looking for objective initial statements, which I have all quoted in the second half of my previous post for everyone's benefit.

And (b), when trying to summarize what is important, you pick (link to) almost exclusively meta-discussion - which is what I meant by saying you seem to focus more on a different aspect of this discussion than I, quotes (links) 1 through 4, 6, 10, 12, and 14 through 18 to be precise - rather than original statements summarizing what this is about, which (building on your idea to do so) is what I have done in the second half of my previous post for everyone's benefit.

It is curious to me that you wish that we'd stop the conversation, yet you reply/complain against every single detail. Once again, you can't censor or make anyone stop posting in any direction. A moderator can, though (it does not say you are one below your avatar...). I believe you meant: "let me say the last word, I can reply to you, but you shouldn't "... hmmm, it does not work that way  ;).

Trust me, I was not going to post again (replying to you), to follow your wish, then I realized you keep accusing me of cherry picking. Once again: Check this entire thread (doesn't take that long, I did it)... or.... as you say below you did it... dunno... do it again, just a bit better, as that was NOT what happened.  I have been just pasting the links to the posts IN ORDER of appearance. It happens to be that Patrick has answered here more than other staff members. I just pasted all posts in order. Again, if the conversation derailed, and at that point of the thread they are talking about film actors, why should I link it????? About the matter, I posted all. NO cherry picking. And it is a false accusation. (talk about attacks...).

And then you start replying me about what each staff member said. I don't have anything to do with that ! Is just what they said, I posted the links,  to keep it accurate, you might like it or not, but is just a list, with all items, in order of appearance.

The whole point was to provide newcomers (as you said that they don't know what staff posted before, and so they were in disadvantage) with a compiled list, in order or appearance, of all the staff posts. Then did so with other (edit) posts  threads in the matter, as some could not be aware of older posts threads or that simply are not being bumped right now.

On 6/11/2019 at 4:46 AM, Redsandro said:

Why do you keep bringing this up? It's not interesting. We can both point to rude behavior from select users.

Because... There have been around rude attitudes and wording. And I have a thick skin about that, btw (reaaally thick, and yep, the 10 companies...) but you have gone to the extreme of saying this is one of the most bitter communities you know (I just feel you are too used to linux-only communities, and not so used to find a different POV in those very matters) ...and... trust me, it is not. Then you haven't seen really bad ones.... This one is quite gentle (in comparison).

On 6/11/2019 at 4:46 AM, Redsandro said:

See, while you have done a considerable effort - I know because I have done the same right after that post - for which I have thanked you (yesterday) which has been credited to your "total reputation"

Well, thank you, but forum reputation is not something that moves me.     (btw, I have liked MANY posts from linux fans, when suggesting coherent stuff).  If you really did so, then have checked that I just pasted all what I found (and was not chatting about birds), in strict order. No cherry picking. Unless I was supposed to skip every Patrick's post, and as seems he's quite in charge of many areas (answering in many themes, not only linux's), it sounds it'd be wrong to intentionally avoid them, also as if he was not posting in the line of the company then would not be allowed to post at all. Meaning, not even a second post in a thread... Or that's how it works in most places.

Quote

 - which is what I meant by saying you seem to focus more on a different aspect of this discussion than I

There was no focus. Is a compiled list of posts, in order.

On 6/11/2019 at 4:46 AM, Redsandro said:

If you're justifying being rude to everyone, including new people, because some people are rude, than I don't think you had anything to do with PR communication or social media in your 10 companies.

I don't know where did you get that I was justifying insults to new people, I never insult anyone, neither online or offline, how can you deduce that when I was pointing out that you seem to see the rudeness only in one side, avoids any logic, but ok.

About my experience in 10 companies (btw, my only comment in that personal aspect about you when I mentioned it "as I believe you have also been in many" was not irony, was a compliment, as I noticed experience and background knowledge in some details. Truly. But, oh surprise, I find in response to that a personal attack, about my skills, this time) and how I surely was not in charge of PR communication or social media, you are half right (not about my skills, sorry) : I was not really PR communication, but in several cases, for long time, yep in social media. Abundantly.  And... well... I still remember a nice meeting when they stopped all the order of the day (which, btw, was pretty intense) , at the very beginning of the meeting to congratulate me as I had been the direct responsible of a 35% increase of the traffic to the site, and a 30% increase of estimated income. And it was quite rare they'd congratulate someone like that.  And used to get quite some praise about the matter. So... I feel that your "theory" about that is neither accurate.  But yep, I'm mostly a graphic grunt.

And these are only some samples :  If you do not see bitter aspects (or slight rudeness) in your posts (and definitely, in several linux enthusiasts, I have seen way more rude ones than yours) then you are not being very objective, to say the least.

Quote

Also, whataboutism.

This is also (at least) the second time you accuse of whataboutism to someone that simply is not agreeing totally with you (I have agreed in the past in some aspects...).

Quote

This is a waste of both our time and energy. We've spend 8 Serif licenses worth of time trying to talk to each other,

Really? Not my case. I type really fast, and only post when I'm waiting for a render or the like.    Anyway, you are posting in a thread, where everyone (including you) is allowed to post. Is not like we're having a PMs chat... So, you need to expect reactions to what you say here. (if not, another option is not posting).

Quote

 they never definitively said they were "not going to" (so leave it alone).

I'm very happy to say that it is very accurate to what I expected the situation was, since post one years ago, till today. It has always sounded to me that they do NOT want to close the door. That they just don't see it as the best strategy with certain circumstances, and they keep watching several factors to, at some point make a port if the situation recommends it. I believe latest posts do confirm this. I have no reason to lie (in this or any post) when I tell you this is the exact idea which I'm getting since the beginning.  Which is way more than other companies Windows/Mac based would say, BTW.

Quote

and attacks me on everything else except my main point.

I refer to your comment about this community being the most bitter you know, and my company experience (among others), regarding the attacks/complaints department   

Anyway, I can't think of any single time where I am "attacking" you. Just debating (with you and others). The company experience is a clear example, where I expect/suppose from you the best, and find a very different style from you.

Quote

  If they wanted the discussion to close without implying censorship, they would very simply release a statement and keep linking to that, rather than engage in discussion as if things are up for debate.

In that I agree, but indeed, I always said they don't have an intention of closing these threads, even in the post that was quoted here. While they have closed in the past quite some threads (usually something got really, really bad, to need that).

Quote

And although that's probably only towards Linux enthusiasts, being a (non-dual-booting) Linux user myself, in my perception this is it.

I agree with that, too. In your perception, it is.  (reddit comes to mind, and... ouch (meaning, "some" threads, of course. Also, ye good ol' slashdot have a history with so many posts that would make anyone's hair go green with the verbal flatulence....Heck... youtube comments section, as another of the many examples of the "way much bitter" than anything you'll find here. ).

Quote

Let's voluntarily ignore each other, and keep conversing with the people

But you actually replied to everything   . (basically is telling me NOT to reply, hehe) I would argue that there's a ton other people not agreeing with you, so you really need to be picky which you reply to (curiously, others have INDEED attacked you, unlike me. But it is me who you'd desire to stop...   ). Maybe only replying to linux enthusiasts ? That sounds safe. Although that'd be complex to establish too, as, you wont believe it, but I am deeply a Linux enthusiast, and funny, but older in that history (not in age) than the vast majority here. 

BTW, sense of humor is never an attack. Is a way to avoid rudeness, indeed. (I am not using savage sarcasm, in which I'm pretty good at, but am avoiding it, intentionally... Every possible instance of it, and... there are so many temptations...  Gotta keep strong. )

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by SrPx
Typos only.

[D’T4ils]

On 6/7/2019 at 9:20 AM, Keith Reeder said:

And just how many is that?

10? 20? 

 

Does it make you feel good trying to provoque other people? Do you get pleasure out of it? We don't really need any trolls around here. If you're not going to contribute to our discussion, I would ask you to refrain yourself from posting around here. Thanks.

[R C-R]

18 minutes ago, D’T4ils said:

If you're not going to contribute to our discussion, I would ask you to refrain yourself from posting around here. Thanks.

Please keep in mind that it is not 'your' discussion. Everyone is free to post their opinions & suggestions here, as long as they abide by the forum rules for acceptable content.

[D’T4ils]

7 hours ago, R C-R said:

Please keep in mind that it is not 'your' discussion. Everyone is free to post their opinions & suggestions here, as long as they abide by the forum rules for acceptable content.

I never said this was 'my' discussion. Re-read my comment if necessary.

If you're up for having people trolling around instead of actually contributing to OUR discussion, then that's your problem, mate.

Have a good day.

[Solly]

Oh my, things haven't changed much since my Usenet news use in the mid-1980's. The same words of wisdom apply—don't feed the trolls.

[xam]

I just wanted to comment on some of the previous statements.

- Linux is for nerds: this is not true and is a general (pretty offensive) sweeping statement. I have friends who say they cannot use linux. But in each case I've found it was simply familiarity and effort they were not willing to make (usually reflected in other aspects of their lives as well).

- Its not a good biz move for affinity: Madness, this designer application for linux issue has been going on for decades if they filled that void they would be rolling in it.

- Support headache: This is the idea that there are so many linux flavours that it would be impossible to support. Snap apps are trying to fill this void and many, many independent software makers who make complex software for next to no income, make versions that work across linux platforms.

How to move forward.
It seems this convo has reached an impasse where affinity likely just ignore new posts, and if they mention it in a meeting all the senior people at serif kick off :D haha

As I see it there are two ways to move forward with this.

1. Affinity starts work on provisional (prospect) linux version transparently and gets the community involved. Why not talk to canonical. They would definitely have an interest in supporting serif.

2. Start a project separate from serif with donations to start work on supporting the wine version, or indeed wrapping the windows version with a snap app to give users ease of use.  donation money == good developer resources.

[Juhele]

Hi,

some years ago I tried Photo Plus and Draw Plus and now I am back to Serif again as working with Inkscape seems to be really terrible (mainly because it is "lazy" and sometimes even freezing although the machine has plenty of power  ). Adobe is not a solution because of subscription plans, and pro version of Gravit is apparently the same problem.

However, I am also a linux user and I am definitely not going to have that terrible Windows 10 on my PC installed. I read this thread and it looks it should be possible to run Affinity Designer in VBOX running W7. Currently, I do not have Windows 7 installed in Virtualbox so I am rather asking before buying Designer, preparing the virtual environment etc...

Does anybody here use Designer in VM running Windows 7? I know there will probably be some loss of performance but have no idea if it is still usable.

My hardware is Core i5-4570, 16GB RAM, Intel HD 4600 graphics, SSD + HDD, running 64bit Kubuntu 19.04 Disco Dingo.

thanks

 

PS: I still think there are potential users who would like to throw away Windows 10 from their workstations and replace it with some rock-stable OS like Debian Stable which would be much more reliable for commercial use - if there was some Adobe alternative for linux (especially as Adobe switched to subscription only and increases the fees)

[m.vlad]

2 hours ago, xam said:

- Its not a good biz move for affinity: Madness, this designer application for linux issue has been going on for decades if they filled that void they would be rolling in it.

It's not a good business move for Serif right now. The situation may change in the future.

2 hours ago, xam said:

How to move forward.
It seems this convo has reached an impasse where affinity likely just ignore new posts, and if they mention it in a meeting all the senior people at serif kick off haha

No, they've already said their point, that is they do not have any plans to release a linux version at the moment. Other things simply take priority over a linux port, and that is perfectly understandable. They have a reputation to upkeep and delaying bugfixing and feature updates for the existing apps in favor of a linux port would make them look bad.

2 hours ago, xam said:

2. Start a project separate from serif with donations to start work on supporting the wine version, or indeed wrapping the windows version with a snap app to give users ease of use. donation money == good developer resources.

They've already said they do not want to go that way (donations and the like) when the kickstarter was mentioned. I'm sure they've looked a bit into it and saw it as needing to change many things, otherwise if it was as simple as using a wrapper there would be no reason to hold back a linux release.

1 hour ago, Juhele said:

Does anybody here use Designer in VM running Windows 7? I know there will probably be some loss of performance but have no idea if it is still usable.

Someone mentioned somewhere that performance in a VM is abysmal.

1 hour ago, Juhele said:

PS: I still think there are potential users who would like to throw away Windows 10 from their workstations and replace it with some rock-stable OS like Debian Stable which would be much more reliable for commercial use - if there was some Adobe alternative for linux (especially as Adobe switched to subscription only and increases the fees)

No one is arguing against people throwing away windows in favor of linux in case Affinity were to release on linux, what people are arguing is their number. Unless it's a few thousand people or so I'd guess they wouldn't raise the priority of a linux port.

[Redsandro]

1 hour ago, Juhele said:

Does anybody here use Designer in VM running Windows 7? I know there will probably be some loss of performance but have no idea if it is still usable.

In my experience there is too much performance loss in a classic VM with shared hardware. Really bad framerate. Don't do it. Don't take my word for it; try it out with the Designer Trial version first.

What is reported to work pretty good is a VM using a dedicated video card (and plenty of RAM) for Affinity using VFIO. The video card will be more costly than a Windows license, and it takes some time to set up, but you'll definitely save a lot of time not being handicapped without access to your computer as would happen when dual-booting.

@Qu4ntumSpin suggested something like https://looking-glass.hostfission.com/ to tie it all together.

 

2 hours ago, Solly said:

Oh my, things haven't changed much since my Usenet news use in the mid-1980's. The same words of wisdom apply—don't feed the trolls.

@xam @D’T4ils this topic really becomes quite interesting when you add half a dozen people or so to the ignore list.

 

2 hours ago, xam said:

As I see it there are two ways to move forward with this.

1. Affinity starts work on provisional (prospect) linux version transparently and gets the community involved. Why not talk to canonical. They would definitely have an interest in supporting serif.

2. Start a project separate from serif with donations to start work on supporting the wine version, or indeed wrapping the windows version with a snap app to give users ease of use.  donation money == good developer resources.

Serif is not going to do this (1). I prefer backing a team that does want to work towards a Linux version. There are however no real quality contenders besides Adobe and Serif, right?

So (2) is an option if we can get someone to map everything necessary without any support from Serif whatsoever, but perhaps 3 would be better:

3. Can we create a script to hot-switch VFIO between Linux and Affinity-VM using only one videocard? Though unrelated, this seems to attempt exactly this.

[Qu4ntumSpin]

Hi everyone,

Just to shine some information here related to the following questions because it does not only apply to Serif product, but basically to anything you want.

On 6/18/2019 at 3:25 PM, mvlad said:

Someone mentioned somewhere that performance in a VM is abysmal.

On 6/18/2019 at 3:30 PM, Redsandro said:

@Qu4ntumSpin suggested something like https://looking-glass.hostfission.com/ to tie it all together.

 

Concerning VM performance, you must understand that there is multiple type of VM's.
If you are planning to start "VirtualBox" and that's it. Then you can expect very poor graphical performance for any application.

What you need to get near native performance, yes you can absolutely play AAA games, your CAD app, etc,  this way without much performance loss.

I am using QEMU with a dedicated video card (Yes I have 2 cards in my system).
The process to setup VFIO + KVM is not complicated It is built into linux ! And there is enough video tutorial out there. If you know how to modify one file. install programs on linux and you have the hardware this will likely take you an hour the first time to set up. Then about 5 to 10 minutes the following times.

What you need to know :
- VFIO allows you to passthrough your gpu to your VM (All of this, depends on your machine - IOMMU)
- KVM if you respect architecture (Linux 64 with Windows 64) to get near native performance inside your VM
- If you don't have a monitor to spare, you can use SPICE to see what's going on in your VM, but for gaming performance you will want LookingGlass (It literally copies gpu buffer from one gpu to the other, and now it allows full copy/paste between your VM and Linux)
- You are running 2 systems, so 8GB RAM... no go... (16 at least for a great experience, and 32 if you want to go all in)
- At least 4 cores, but preferably 6 or 8, so you can share 4/4 to each system. Yes, 4 cores and 8 threads each will allow you to play your Appex / Fortnite High settings etc.  or whatever else is trending nowadays.
- If you can game on it, you can compute & work on it.
- More complicated, but you can also do that with MAC OS (Though, it is against their TOS, so it's up to you)

How to setup QEMU+KVM (very old video - 3 years ago !): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16dbAUrtMX4 
Learn more about QEMU: https://www.qemu.org
Learn more about KVM : https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/virtualization/what-is-KVM

From the creator of LookingGlass NOV 2018 (The demo starts around 4:30) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a322V4yo3nY

On 6/18/2019 at 3:30 PM, Redsandro said:

3. Can we create a script to hot-switch VFIO between Linux and Affinity-VM using only one videocard?

Yes you can, it's complicated, it depends on the driver most of the time. I do not recommend it for the majority of users. And you loose the ability to go back and forth between your VM and Linux machin without interupting your Linux Work. Which is exactly why this QEMU+VFIO is nice.

Often people forget, but you might already have 2 gpu's. One with your intel / amd processor and your dedicated graphics card
Here for example this guy is running it's display from the motherboard output (intel gpu) and shares is main dedicated gpu with the VM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssfvpLXK8po

If you are really going into this stuff :  https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/
Gaming on Linux( Native & VM) From Linus Tech Tips and Wendel : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgI1mkx6iw  << If you watch only one, then look at this one.
5 minutes of VFIO/IOMMU on Arch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_2dtnU4Awk

There is so much resources out there, I can't share everything. But now you have all that you need to run all Serif applications and more, without leaving the comfort of your Linux desktop.

EDIT: I didn't mention it, but you can pass through any device that you want of course. I am passing though a wacom tablet and a keyboard.
But that's all entirely optional. You can even pass through a sound card (usb headset for example)... etc.

EDIT 2: If you have pro card either from AMD or Nvidia. It is likely that you have SR-IOV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Fs0NHgzIY Pro cards allow you to share a single card at the same time against multiple vm's.

EDIT 3: To have an amazing sound experience between your VM (Windows ) and HOST (linux) You can use "scream"
https://github.com/duncanthrax/scream#using-ivshmem-between-windows-guest-and-linux-host 
This basically installs a new sound card into windows and you can listen to its sound on Linux either by multicast or just like Lookinglass through a IVSHMEM (A shared memory space).
This "scream" in combination with "lookinglass" really gives you a nice Seamless integration.
It's like opening a browser to navigate the web basically, you're just navigating your windows vm instead.

EDIT4:
Qemu 4 has landed and it brings a gazillion updates. Way better than 3.1. https://wiki.qemu.org/ChangeLog/4.0
So basically sound issues are mostly gone, so you might not need (EDIT 3) scream at all to get a nice experience.

Note on all these edits.
There is many changes since I did my last setup. Mine is working fine for me, I don't have time to get up to speed with the new stuff, my clients come always first.
Basically everything is getting even better (who could have guessed...).

Enjoy !

[R C-R]

39 minutes ago, mvlad said:

No, they've already said their point, that is they do not have any plans to release a linux version at the moment. Other things simply take priority over a linux port, and that is perfectly understandable.

That pretty well sums up the current state of this (& the other related) topic. Basically, ignoring the noise from all sides, various Linux advocates continue to post what amounts to 'it's time to do this now' arguments of various kinds ... & every so often someone from Serif posts what amounts to a 'no, we don't think it is' reply.

[Argo]

Quote

We would only make a Linux version if we were confident we would recoup the $500,000 it would cost us to build it.

1. Others with creative suites don't do it. You get a niche, and marketing value.

2. The codebase is, by and large, the same you'd have to run on Mac. This is how a number of video games are ported from Windows to MacOS (Tomb Raider, etc.). 

What they "seem" to have in common with Affinity products is that they don't rely on a native UI toolkit.

3. Support cost can be reduced. Linux users support themselves: give them broad strokes, broad strokes would be enough.

4. Finally, the Linux market, as is obvious with 21 pages on this thread, is largely underestimated. Top design products, such as Houdini or Da Vinci Resolve, are distributed on Linux, because top professionals and studios like to work on Linux. 

So-called "power users" or creatives like me dual boot, but wish we could loose the last anchors that tie us to Windows - or to Gimp - and embrace a reliable, a sound product for graphics editing that runs on Linux. I'll assume we're in the couple of tens of millions whose professional activity is not properly reflected in online usage statistics.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Argo

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, Argo said:

2. The codebase is, by and large, the same you'd have to run on Mac. This is how a number of video games are ported from Windows to MacOS (Tomb Raider, etc.). 

What they "seem" to have in common with Affinity products is that they don't rely on a native UI toolkit.

The Mac (& iPad) versions make extensive use of native Mac OS API's wherever that improves performance or provides other benefits. The most obvious of the first is Metal.

[Redsandro]

Hi @Argo,

The Affinity team has already debated this internally and is not currently interested in the uncertain Linux market.

On 10/15/2016 at 8:34 AM, Patrick Connor said:

There are no plans for a Linux port. We are a small team and will be doing new (..) products (..) in preference to porting the existing ones to Linux.

 

On 11/9/2018 at 2:26 PM, GabrielM said:

We have no plans to develop a version for Linux and do not have a workaround for [WINE]. Sorry

 

On 6/11/2019 at 8:41 AM, Mark Ingram said:

This thread is popular, but ultimately we've only had a fraction of a percent of people request a Linux version so far. Now, if this post had 20,000 people in it, we'd be clamouring to build for Linux. We're not saying never, we're just saying that our limited resources are best spent working on other things right now.

A lot of Linux users (myself included) have indicated they would pay double the Affinity license fee for native Linux versions, as an incentive for them to port them. I suggest we all use half of that money and donate it to people who'd receive it with open arms: Donate to GIMP, donate to Krita, donate to InkScape or donate to the Libre Graphics Meeting.

[Snapseed]

On 6/13/2019 at 11:24 AM, Estrobeda said:

Well, true, still a lot better than nothing and perhaps easier to develop and maintain than a full port if that's the issue.

@Estrobeda, I would regard that as a sane and eminently rational compromise and a win-win for everyone.

[taharvey]

This ongoing thread cracks me up.

There isn't a real linux desktop market, and its very unlikely to evolve, for multiple well-known reasons. Even Linus has long ago dismissed that the "year of the linux desktop" will ever come. Linux dominates the embedded and headless server space, but isn't a compelling market for users outside of a few developers who don't come up for air above the terminal-editor level. The very culture of the linux core audience, keeps it from developing a canonical full-stack framework and singular OS distro, high quality UI/UX, or attract the non-programmer designer and business talent to ever make the market successful.

Anybody who is betting on a linux market to emerge for consumer software is kidding themselves. Hasn't happen in 25 years, no indicators that the market changing.

[m.vlad]

2 hours ago, taharvey said:

This ongoing thread cracks me up.

There isn't a real linux desktop market, and its very unlikely to evolve, for multiple well-known reasons. Even Linus has long ago dismissed that the "year of the linux desktop" will ever come. Linux dominates the embedded and headless server space, but isn't a compelling market for users outside of a few developers who don't come up for air above the terminal-editor level. The very culture of the linux core audience, keeps it from developing a canonical full-stack framework and singular OS distro, high quality UI/UX, or attract the non-programmer designer and business talent to ever make the market successful.

Anybody who is betting on a linux market to emerge for consumer software is kidding themselves. Hasn't happen in 25 years, no indicators that the market changing.

Except in the last years there's been the case of emerging distros that focus on a GUI-only/GUI-mainly user experience. Check out Elementary OS and Deepin. They both have app stores and support for .deb installers. Of course there's still stuff that can only be done via a terminal but most user-related stuff can be done easily if you follow someone's instructions (and even then, all it is is a more powerful Command Prompt). 

 

Other than that, it is my belief that until someone breaks the market (like Adobe or affinity releasing something on Linux) the Linux market will not be increasing that fast. Though, at the moment, it all comes to a circular argument. There isn't a good graphic design app for Linux > there is a low number of Linux graphic designers > the market is too low to develop a port > there isn't a good graphic design app for Linux.

There has to be someone to do it otherwise there will be no development on this course. 

[Argo]

Except .Net, MS SQL now run on Linux, Linux shells can run inside Windows - by demand from Microsoft developers, a (growing) number of consumer devices - gaming consoles - run on Linux, and professional media studio software such as Da Vinci and Houdini support Linux. All of these have brought their software to Linux and maintained it there - because expert designers or developers benefit from using an environment over which they have full control. 

This is not a story of tinkerers.

I am not interested in opinions. I am not here for a teatime discussion - pardon me for being bold about that. I have worked in very large companies. I am keenly aware of both business needs, and possibilities, but most of all I am concerned about mine.

Metal: so what? There are a number of cross-platform accelerated rendering APIs, and cross-platform UI toolkits. Some of them more accessible and/or as efficient as "Metal" or other "UI kits". I wager that these bindings don't form the whole of the API behind Affinity, otherwise it wouldn't exist on Windows.

I am not very interested in Gimp or Krita either at this point - both are evolving from codebases that have not provided full satisfaction. Krita is unstable, Gimp is coarse, unfriendly. It has come a long way, it is starting to shape up - but that's where it has come up to this point. 

In Affinity, I saw - and see the potential to leave abusive lifetime licensing models behind. I find that they hurt consumers. I am fine paying to support a project I believe in - I paid for my Affinity license. I'd have paid more.

However - no SDK? No format specification? No Linux port.

How is this thing ever going to live and breathe. It needs to reach deep within its community.

It cannot stand on just the strength of a small and solid team.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Argo
Grammar.

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

How is this thing ever going to live and breathe.

It seems to be doing quite well. 

[Argo]

Well, time will tell.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Well, time will tell.

Indeed it will, but the real "story" here is about numbers. There are a great many more Mac & Windows users than Linux ones that are likely to buy inexpensive, no-subscription graphics software like the Affinity ones, so I doubt Serif has anything to worry about until such time as that market becomes saturated.