svinto Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Just started to check out Affinity as a possible replacement to Lightroom and have a very basic question. I'm used to save all my RAW files, import them into LR, make adjustments and then export selected photos as JPEGs. My RAWs stays untouched if I want to go back and make new adjustments. Whatever I do in LR is stored separately in a tiny file, so that I don't need to duplicate the actual photo. Thus I have the original RAW and the modified image when I look at the RAW in LR and it takes very little extra space compared to saving just the RAWs. When I have tried Affinity and want to save what I have done it creates a monstrous .afphoto file (a 113 MB file from a 15 MB RAW original). This won't work as a standard way to save my photos. If I work on the RAW and export as JPEG when I'm done I could save the original RAW and the JPEG, but that would mean that I would have to do all developing and adjustments over again if I want to make a slight modification of the photo. I must be missing something here. What is a normal work flow when shooting RAW and building a photo library gradually over time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Lee D Posted July 24, 2018 Staff Share Posted July 24, 2018 Hi svinto, Welcome to the forums. Affinity's workflow to similar to that of LR but its native file sizes are bigger when saved due to how they have been designed. This is typically because developed raw images are processed to 16-bit - it offers more precision but increases file size exponentially. There are a couple of options to check which may reduce the sizes of saved .afphoto files, try the following. Go to Document>Colour Format>RGB (8 bit) to convert the image to 8-bit and save file space. Go to View>Studio>Snapshots to bring up the snapshots panel. You should see an initial "Background" snapshot. Delete this as it's essentially a backup copy of your image that takes up file size space. Other users may have different workflows, I tend stick to the basics and have a large external drive to copy everything to. Then occasionally have a good sort through the files, deleting any I don't want anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svinto Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Lee D said: Hi svinto, Welcome to the forums. Affinity's workflow to similar to that of LR but its native file sizes are bigger when saved due to how they have been designed. This is typically because developed raw images are processed to 16-bit - it offers more precision but increases file size exponentially. There are a couple of options to check which may reduce the sizes of saved .afphoto files, try the following. Go to Document>Colour Format>RGB (8 bit) to convert the image to 8-bit and save file space. Go to View>Studio>Snapshots to bring up the snapshots panel. You should see an initial "Background" snapshot. Delete this as it's essentially a backup copy of your image that takes up file size space. Other users may have different workflows, I tend stick to the basics and have a large external drive to copy everything to. Then occasionally have a good sort through the files, deleting any I don't want anymore. Thank you Lee for these suggestions, but I don't think it would solve my problem. Saving as 8-bit I would throw out most of the information and miss the advantage of working with RAW. The file can only be opened with Affinity, so to retain the flexibility to be able to work on the images in other programs I would still have to save the original RAW file. This significantly increases the amount of storage space and also complicates the organization, having to keep track of two (or three if I want a final JPEG as well) versions of each photo. I may still use Affinity occasionally – it seems to have a number of nice features – but can't see how I could use it for my everyday workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted July 24, 2018 Staff Share Posted July 24, 2018 Hi svinto, Welcome to Affinity Forums Affinity Photo wasn't designed to manage libraries the same way as Lightroom or another DAM software does. It doesn't use databases neither XMP sidecar files to store edits, not is able to apply the same settings to a bunch of images from the same photoshoot. It's mostly a RAW converter/developer and photo editing app that offer a similar workflow to Adobe Camera RAW + Photoshop where you typically open a couple RAW's to develop (recover shadows, general tone adjustments etc) then move to Photoshop for further localised editing. In Affinity that would mean open the RAW (which is displayed in Develop Persona) for global adjustments/development (as in Adobe Camera RAW) then pressing Develop to move it to Photo Persona for localised edits (which would be the equivalent to moving to Photoshop for further editing). DNA0101 and Ulysses 1 1 Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svinto Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, MEB said: Hi svinto, Welcome to Affinity Forums Affinity Photo wasn't designed to manage libraries the same way as Lightroom or another DAM software does. It doesn't use databases neither XMP sidecar files to store edits, not is able to apply the same settings to a bunch of images from the same photoshoot. It's mostly a RAW converter/developer and photo editing app that offer a similar workflow to Adobe Camera RAW + Photoshop where you typically open a couple RAW's to develop (recover shadows, general tone adjustments etc) then move to Photoshop for further localised editing. In Affinity that would mean open the RAW (which is displayed in Develop Persona) for global adjustments/development (as in Adobe Camera RAW) then pressing Develop to move it to Photo Persona for localised edits (which would be the equivalent to moving to Photoshop for further editing). Hi MEB, Thanks for clarifying. I get that, and I always used Bridge + Camera RAW + Photoshop before I had LR. The difference is that when I have gone through that process with Camera RAW I still have the same RAW file (which I can open in any other program) + a puny xmp file of a few kb that allows me to go back and tweak the developing at any time, continuing right where I left off. I just assumed that Affinity worked along the same principle and was very surprised to find that in order to save my edits in a form that allows me to go back and continue to work on the photo where I left off, I have to save in a format that is an order of magnitude larger than the original RAW. Seems like a very odd solution to me, and I'm afraid it will disqualify an otherwise very nice program as my first choice. Ulysses and DNA0101 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 On 7/24/2018 at 2:16 PM, MEB said: Affinity Photo wasn't designed to manage libraries the same way as Lightroom or another DAM software does. It doesn't use databases neither XMP sidecar files to store edits, not is able to apply the same settings to a bunch of images from the same photoshoot. It's mostly a RAW converter/developer and photo editing app that offer a similar workflow to Adobe Camera RAW + Photoshop where you typically open a couple RAW's to develop (recover shadows, general tone adjustments etc) then move to Photoshop for further localised editing. In Affinity that would mean open the RAW (which is displayed in Develop Persona) for global adjustments/development (as in Adobe Camera RAW) then pressing Develop to move it to Photo Persona for localised edits (which would be the equivalent to moving to Photoshop for further editing). I love Affinity Photo and have been using it now for close to three years. It's allowed me to make an almost clean break from Adobe Photoshop for my image processing. In fact, I've never needed to buy into the shackles of Adobe's subscription model and their Creative Cloud. However, I have to agree with @svinto and others: It's more than a bit odd — and even a bit of a flaw in an otherwise excellent piece of software — that there isn't at least an option to preserve a record of RAW edits in a sidecar file. Saving to the .APHOTO format isn't really the answer due to the bloated size of that format. I wish more could be done to help those of us who are professionals and need to return to these images for further edits. As things stand right now, I use Capture One Pro 11 to perform bulk adjustments to RAW images. I then process as needed within Affinity Photo. It's a solid workflow, but I do wish Affinity Photo helped make my workflow even simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted July 28, 2018 Staff Share Posted July 28, 2018 Hi Ulysses, There's already plans to implement a non destructive Develop Layer in Affinity Photo. Check the roadmap for more info on other things coming in v1.x. Other improvements may come in future versions. We are only in v1.6... DNA0101 and Ulysses 2 Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, MEB said: Hi Ulysses, There's already plans to implement a non destructive Develop Layer in Affinity Photo. Check the roadmap for more info on other things coming in v1.x. Other improvements may come in future versions. We are only in v1.6... Thank you, MEB! I hadn't checked the roadmap for a few months now, so this is encouraging. It's been a pleasure to watch Affinity Photo grow into such a capable tool. Part of the reason is because it's not only helped improve my workflow and quality of my processing, but also because the Affinity Photo team is so responsive to recommendations from real-world users. Checking that roadmap now. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA0101 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 7/24/2018 at 2:16 PM, MEB said: Hi svinto, Welcome to Affinity Forums Affinity Photo wasn't designed to manage libraries the same way as Lightroom or another DAM software does. It doesn't use databases neither XMP sidecar files to store edits, not is able to apply the same settings to a bunch of images from the same photoshoot. It's mostly a RAW converter/developer and photo editing app that offer a similar workflow to Adobe Camera RAW + Photoshop where you typically open a couple RAW's to develop (recover shadows, general tone adjustments etc) then move to Photoshop for further localised editing. In Affinity that would mean open the RAW (which is displayed in Develop Persona) for global adjustments/development (as in Adobe Camera RAW) then pressing Develop to move it to Photo Persona for localised edits (which would be the equivalent to moving to Photoshop for further editing). Hmmm Interesting to know and answers a few reasons why... BUT I am shocked to see my Nikon raw file ballon from 15 MB to 280MB when saved as .afphoto. As stated here and elsewhere unacceptable storage size for multiple edits, as in 100s of pictures. Solutions are needed asap to keep HD space lean. svp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernesto18 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 This relates to MEB's message from July 28, 2018. He wrote: "There's already plans to implement a non destructive Develop Layer in Affinity Photo. Check the roadmap for more info on other things coming in v1.x. Other improvements may come in future versions. We are only in v1.6...". Is this still on the plans? Any possible dates if yes? The lack of this feature is one of the reasons why I have not ditched Photoshop completely yet, Affinity Photo does everything else I need of it. Many thanks ernesto18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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