Glenbo Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Book cover designers biggest bane in life is changing spines! So the way it’s generally done is the doc is made up as book height, by back width + spine + front width! Then in InDesign CS6 Adobe introduces a major couple of bugs! If a document had its size changed any objects in the slug move randomly so we started licking them then in one update they added super bug InDesign must close because of a fatal error! If we changed a doc width with any item licked on or off the page! This caused no end of traffic jams in production! Then I hit on the idea of making up a cover by stacking the pages next to each other using the variable page size option! But send s PDF to the printers set to spreads to make this work caused their RIPs to crash as it was seeing three separate pages to trim! What publisher could offer is a book cover mode, where a doc can be made up this way but it exports with folds as one page? I can send you some InDesign docs to show the various hoops we jump through?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I'm not really following the plot. I've never had issue with moving pages side by side and exporting spreads for a single page pdf. Nor with changing the spine. The resulting pdf is a true single page, not three or more (in the case of flaps). Yes, if trim marks are included then each page has trim marks, but they are stripped in every imposition software I've ever seen anyway. And even if the resulting pdf was printed as a single pdf, foregoing imposition software, the spine trim marks would serve as fold marks...which also are not needed anyway. I've never seen a rip have issues with an ID-generated book cover pdf when going to print services ranging from any POD to offset printing all around the world. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbo Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 All I can say is the print outfits that the UK publishers I’ve worked with all requested we stop using the 3 page system immediately stating it held up their RIP! No amount of questioning gave me any further information unfortunately but changing spines should be easy not difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, Glenbo said: All I can say is the print outfits that the UK publishers I’ve worked with all requested we stop using the 3 page system immediately stating it held up their RIP! No amount of questioning gave me any further information unfortunately but changing spines should be easy not difficult! I believe you...but I have not experienced it. They should defend their position. It's just a single page PDF. Are these print establishments a POD type? If they are using an automated PDF checking system--which all PODs I use do so--it is possible that the trim marks are messing it up. It shouldn't, however. So what would actually be your recommendation for Serif? What would it look like and how would it work? Just omitting the trim marks for the "inner" pages? That presumes that is where the hang-up is for the print establishments you are using. Without them answering your direct questions as to what the problem is may not be sufficient for Serif to change APub. And speaking of that, we don't even know if an APub file can have different page sizes (been too long since I looked at the video) nor whether these pages can be stacked side-by-side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbo Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Hard to tell, I’m not at my computer at the moment I’ll dig out details once home, but I’ve always thought that a simple dialogue popping up asking what type of document I’m creating would be best then asking me to insert the appropriate measurements, and a RIP ready document is created with folds in the right places etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 And how would spine adjustments work? Other than packaging work, I've never indicated fold marks. Not on book covers, folded brochures, etc. That's all been communicated in writing to the print service and/or their rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbo Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 If the spine needs to change you Edit the spine value in the dialogue box... then just adjust the spine elements as normal, but because the doc size is controlled by the dialogue the front and back have already moved This would save hours per week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Glenbo said: If the spine needs to change you Edit the spine value in the dialogue box... then just adjust the spine elements as normal, but because the doc size is controlled by the dialogue the front and back have already moved This would save hours per week! Then I am assuming that this idea is akin to ID's pages because that is how it works once the pages are pulled up into position. So I guess I am back to not understanding the problem with ID's single page pdf output. And I think the only way I could understand would be if these print establishments would explain the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbo Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 Pretty much yes, but I think it's more a case of how PDFs report trimmed pages IE a trim box. I think we need a document builder that understands folded pages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 There is only a single trim box in an ID file when using the pages side by side as I described. There are the extra trim marks at the spine in a 3 page setup. But imposition software discards trim and registration marks, color bars, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbo Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 That's the trouble when printers just say a blanket no without explaining why! Leaves us all guessing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baleye Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I'm a book cover designer too... an YES it would be a FANTASTIC idea to have a BOOK COVER option, where the setup and modification of the different book-cover standards would be easier . I'm only suggesting this, because we book-cover designer are some of the designers, who actually can afford to leave ADOBE, because, we are not cross-collaborating so much with other people in our workflow. The switch from IND & PSD therefor would not affect other people really. AND YES: SLUG IS IMPORTANT. If infinity wants, I will be happy to send some of my documents over for inspection of my workflow. If you look at the image I attach, you will see, that I use a lineal to make it easier for the production dept. to check the parameters of the cover. This is placed on a slug. Regards Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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