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Sullyman

Alt Color Picking (When using brush tool)

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Hello,

I recently came across a previous thread which I cannot find now that mention folks having issues with using the alt color picking function while using the brush tools. 

The issue: trying to alt select color picking while using the brush tool shows the zoom loupe but it is very jittery and doesn't select color at all or is completely inaccurate)

I wanted to mention that I share their agony and have been using the latest official release and beta. The previous thread had mentioned that the lastest beta would have corrected the issue but it hasn't corrected the issue on my end. (could have been mistaken though)

Not trying to duplicate threads just could find the previous thread, feel free to merge if possible. 

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Hey Sullyman,

Are you using a tablet? This 'should' be fixed in build 113 but the most recent public beta is 112 so keep your eyes peeled for the next one :) 

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Yes @Chris B, a tablet monitor and PC. I do have Affinity Photo on the iPad as well which this does happen at times. The color chosen doesn't update and I have to go to the swatches panel and use it's color picker or the actual eye dropper versus a long press for color picking.

Thank you for your response :)

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Is there anything I can offer to the dev's that could help in assisting the diagnosis of the issue?

This is one of the most critical workflow needs for any illustrator/artist that is looking to paint in either Designer or Photo. Having to stop using the stylus to then use the mouse and keyboard (just to alt color pick) is probably one of the worst issues to deal with when just trying to color pick quickly.

In the scale of needs I'm sure it doesn't appear to be worthy at the moment but is a major factor for lots of illustrators.

Does this issue relate to the very small delay that the stylus has in response time?This happens on the iPad as well but not as much as with Windows. 

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Thanks for the reply @Mark Ingram!

This is strange, I've opened up OBS to record the issues but the issues have resolved themselves in AD after it being open. I close it and the issues are back (after I close and reopen the AD).

What would cause this to happen? Any other suggestions that I could try?

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I would love an option to fully deactivate the loupe (specially if really doesn't use it in code, internally), in preferences, even if not default... Just plain old alt + click to pick color ( like in older apps), without any UI help (totally fine if having to trigger the preference in new installs for not being default). I have a feeling that it is adding some sort of delay (producing some issues) that becomes a problem in constant fast alt + click for picking colors. ( or not frequent, but very fast in the movement ). Maybe is only noticeable in Windows and old machines, but I can very well describe it as a workflow stopper... (and that's rare in me :D


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Ok, so now it seems to have come full circle back to another thread I have posted. 

So the changing from stylus to mouse which would cause the mouse to no longer be active or able to select anything in interface (I can only recover mouse function by tapping into a panel or menu then using stylus) , also brings along the delay and no longer being able to alt+click colors successfully. 

Meanwhile, once the issue shows it's ugly face (alt+click color picking, color panel handle selection), I try to record the evidence with OBS the problem disappears. Could the OBS software grab a "resource" that causes AD Pixel Persona to perform properly?

 

 

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I have no clue about that....


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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https://youtu.be/x3P8Ucnqh0U

Ok, so I finally was able to get the issues to reproduce while OBS was recording.

Mouse Cursor Issue: 

In this video you find the first issue which is the cursor not following the stylus but instead the mouse. While using the stylus the cursor seems to be "Off Screen" until you use the mouse to bring it back into visibility. While using OBS you'll notice the cursors icon just sit in the center of screen and resizes as I use the hotkeys to resize the brush tip.

Alt+Click (Stylus) Color Picking:

You see that the remainder of the video is me attempting to color pick using the stylus and alt button to quickly color pick to no avail. This absolutely critical for any painter/illustrator in either Designer or Photo (Happens in both). I do love what AD and AP having going I just think there needs to be some critical improvements to the bugs mentioned and the overall performance of the brush engine.

I find, like a couple folks have in previous threads, that the brush tools seem to have a "stiffness" or "lag" to there performance which really is a motivation crusher when wanting to stay the Affinity atmosphere for illustrating. Right now I try to keep my head down for as long as I can tolerate because the work flow is amazing in Affinity products. The only area I find issue with is the brush tools performance. 

Bear in mind, I love the work you all do! So please, keep up the fantastic work! @Mark Ingram

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I don't have the first issue ( I'm in WIndows 7, regular desktop, no Surface) , but the color picker one, definitely do (that (or a similar issue, as it behaves here a bit differently) and other issues related to the brush system, are in my signature's linked threads, and in some stupid sentence in tiny font which I wrote ;) ).  As I have mentioned in that thread, it seems that the loupe/magnifier that pops up with alt clicking , or something related to it, causes the issues, it does introduce some kind of delay, more random and less frequent in my case than in your video, but still, a big problem.

So much agreeing : This is crucial for painting, as one is constantly picking colors. But not only for illustration, also for photo retouch, so.... I did suggest to get ride of the whole loupe/magnifier thing, as a solution, but supposing that -while I don't know for sure- it is that which is introducing the delay /stall / lag /glitch.  It is very show stopper for painting, indeed.  I am not, tho, saying AP is unusable. As it can be used  very very well for other tasks other than basic painting (we are not requesting fancy painting features -I don't even need them :) - , just more solid basic behavior of the brush and color picker.)

I'm reading, though,  in some thread,  that (not sure if is only done for the iPad for now, as I believe I downloaded the latest AP for WIndows the other day, and still noticing the lag in small features/start of lines) the brush lag had received a huge improvement. That's would be a great step forward, indeed. Other issues are the kind of "polygonal" shapes drawn (instead of smooth curves) when drawing in full page zoom-out ( I believe, even with stabiliser of low values on) , as I believe it can't catch up with all the info while tracing when not zoomed in, then, also this issue with the alt click color picking and the loupe (delay, but also, glitch when the click is too fast, as it yet tries to display it) , and an option to disable the cursor outline ( seeing petitions for that, lately)  completely, would be very functional. (ideal if come with options of setting just a basic cursor like in CSP, such as small dot, crosshair cursor, tiny triangle, etc). Right now complex brushes do cover the details you want to paint over, and also, some of us do disable entirely any brush outline ( hence the option for it at preferences and set a basic crosshair or big dot, or etc.

These could be very well non default options, as most of us interested in this large area of a 2D package, wont mind -I think- having to set the preferences for better painting, as preferences stay after closing the application. It could be :

- An option to disable the brush cursor outline ( my current solution is not using custom brushes, only round shape ones (but still...), which is ideal for me as I only use basic brushes -but very fine tuned in settings-, also as in low machines, these brushes are better in performance ...I believe would be fine if this would come activated (brush outline ON) in a fresh install, for less advanced users.

- Option make the alt + click to pick color much more like in every other 2D software ( for painting and what not) , just an alt click, no loupe at all, no delay or glitch. Again, absolutely no issue if comes ON by default.

- Fix somehow the "polygonal curves" when drawing with the canvas or photo fully fitting the application desktop (not zoomed in, but zoomed out)

- Fix the brush LAG, specially at start of lines and/or small features     ---> Seems it's fixed, just not yet in Windows ? ( no issue, then: it'll get there)

- Some users have noticed non constant response to pressure (producing unexpected thin lines from time to time). I have, but not often, or it does not fully disrupt my work. But it could, in many situations.

- Jittery lines (like staircase effect, surely due to the grid ) when drawing zoomed out, the full canvas of a file at print resolution.  Kind of... my workaround for this is just activating the stabilizer but at low strength. Seems to somewhat solve it, but have not done yet enough tests of the trick to be completely sure it really solves it. It'd be amazing if it did it well right away ( like other apps do)

I don't remember if there were more issues, but those are among the main ones. IMO, these will benefit any user, not only people painting and drawing. (maybe other photo retouch tools do share/inherit the brush behavior? )

But I understand a company has its roadmap priorities. Just collecting in a post some of which I think are key to make AP a GREAT painting app ( my ever lasting statement: many of us (being quite pro) not needing fancy digital painting features.  :) But fixes that do empower greatly the software, overall :) )  

About the alt + click to pick a color....   @Sullyman Are you just using alt key at the keyboard, or are you setting alt in one of the 2 pen side buttons ? In my Wacom Intuos Pro 4 XL, I do set alt in a side pen button (and ctrl+ z usually in going back in history. These 2 in every app with a brush) . Made both tests, and did happen to see more lag /stall/glitch issues when is the pen side button with 'alt' set, rather than using just the key. But the issue happens, anyway.

@Sullyman  About your issue with the mouse.  The cursor following mouse, not the stylus, the pen... have you tried, just then, at that *very* moment, to check if other painting app can be launched, and check if the stylus works in that one ? I say this because, specially after some sleep mode or other issues, the wacom service could be down. Is solved easily without restart, by closing the app not receiving the input, going to Windows/services ( type "services" at start menu's Search if don't know how to reach there) , and "restart"  the service called "Wacom Professional Service" , or something like that. Then you need to restart (I mean, start, as you had closed it) the painting app with the issue. As the app needs to load with the service already fixed.

I kind of noticed that some apps can even cause this service to go down, and that is very random, I suspect not the app's fault, as have seen happening with certain great painting app I use, and I don't thing that one is the culprit (but more of a wacom driver + Windows issue.) Maybe is actually an internal AP bug, but I'd check that, anyway.

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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@SrPx That is quite the compendium of issues and glad you've listed them here to try and consolidate the multiple threads of conversations going on.

I have experienced each you have listed and I did like your suggestions with the Loupe as that was my initial theory as well. I also agree that there is a major issue with the zoomed out stepping/lag with brush work.

As far as alt+click color picking, I use the keyboard (never been a button stylus guy). Also, I have no issues in a multitude of software as I'm a collector of sorts (at fault at times lol)

  • Photoshop
  • Illustrator
  • Paintstorm Studio
  • Rebelle
  • Artrage
  • Zbrush

All have passed the (smell?) test with my "off brand" Monoprice MP-22. Drivers have been stable (very rare for the tablet service to drop on me). Using Windows 10, Rizen Threadripper AMD, NVidia GPU (not amazing but above average)

Really excited to have the brush/painting tools brought to a "resolution" in AD & AP as I've been months without stepping in Photohshop (Using Paintstorm because the brush engine is amazing for painting. It's my current work around when I reach my patience limit with AD/AP brush issues)

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10 hours ago, Chris J said:

Hi @Sullyman 

What tablet/pc setup are you using? (Tablet make, model, driver version. PC spec: RAM, CPU, GPU Winver etc.)

Cheers

Chris

My rig @Chris J

Tablet Display:

  • Monoprice MP-22 (Latest Drivers)


PC:

  • 16GB (4GBx4) DDR4/3000MHz Quad Channel Memory (ADATA XPG Z1)
  • AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz [4.0GHz Turbo] Sixteen-Core 32MB L3 Cache 180W Processor
  • GeForce® GTX 1060 3GB GDDR5
  • Windows 10 Home (64)

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I've been working through the issues that are still persistent but I think I really have theorized the possible issue.

I believe it all relates the the delay that seems to happen before the stylus is activated. It seems to be what causes the issues mentioned above, like the zoom loupe acting erratic and creating a sort of bug where the alt + stlyus click, color picking result doesn't show.

The delay also causes very difficult fine color adjustments when using the "boxes" setting in the color panel. This delay really sort of ruins and very slight adjustments painters like to make intuitively.

I have a feeling it also might be the cause of the cursor deactivating itself in panels, making them "un-clickable" when the canvas was the last area used in the interface. 

What's your thoughts?

PS. When might we see a further attempt at solving this issue that I've seen many others, besides myself, bring up in this and other threads? Because that would just be awesome!

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Interesting.... a delay before the pen activates? I have not tried to paint small little features without lifting the pen from the tablet. Will check later if doing all in a continuous, non stopping line does help for small features and fast strokes...  (I can't think of a workaround for the loupe matter, tho...) ...Anyway, of course not lifting the pen is not a solution. But what I find interesting is in how could this be an actual clue. (I'm in Windows, not Mac or iPad, tho)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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hello,

i am working on a surface pro3 in Affinity Photo.

i noticed a high frequent jitter of the brush cursor when holding the alt key down. 
the cursor jumps between the point i hovered to and the point i ended up painting before.
it still not referencing to the colour which is picked in the end but is a part of the problem i think.
a kind of work around is to press tab 2 times in a row. it seems that this method updates the position of the cursor.
its not working all the time but more often at least. ^^
hope the serif team is able to fix that problem. i realy thinking about to switch completly over to Affinity Products
but when my drawing expierence end up in frustration its no choice all all. 

cheers

 

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Hello everyone.

Thank you for your continued help and feedback. We appreciate it. I’ve hopefully fixed this issue now and it will be available in the next release/beta. Please let us know if you still encounter problems.

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My actual exact point... Thank you !! (and yep, I also wouldn't mind if it'd be not default, to be disabled in preferences)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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On 12/4/2018 at 11:22 PM, Chris J said:

Hello everyone.

Thank you for your continued help and feedback. We appreciate it. I’ve hopefully fixed this issue now and it will be available in the next release/beta. Please let us know if you still encounter problems.

Oh, WOW ! I hadn't read this one....That's outstanding ! (if it is fixed, for me is ground breaking. Is the only serious issue left, for me....)

Is it meant for the next beta, or the current one? I'll use my best effort to beta test & report.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Hello Iam new here,
so I just want to know is that "color picker" a bug or is it the affinity way ?
I mean, the color picker sorry to say kind of stupid way and not creative. 
Most of the software when I use brush then pick color its that simple then I can paint straight forward.
so is there a plan or this is the way of infinity color picker ?

side note : I Really love affinity photo I just tried it today and I can confirm if "alt" issue fix. I will straight forward buy it and it will be my #1 painting tool.
 

 

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12 hours ago, KloWorks said:

side note : I Really love affinity photo I just tried it today and I can confirm if "alt" issue fix. I will straight forward buy it and it will be my #1 painting tool.

Okay. Feedback, here.Just installed latest Photo publisher beta. I can  see some improvements, I hope is not the placebo effect....

Using the actual alt key, works, till the little I have tested, perfectly. (only miss some registers, never happens in other apps, but is much better than when using the side pen button)

The issue now (it was so before, too) is when (my brain-wired way of painting, as of many) is set ALT key as second (upper) side pen (I have the lower one for undo). Is yet happening this super workflow breaking issue of not really registering the color. Or, if keeping enough time for it to pick it, triggering the feared picker amplifier/loupe. Not only slowing down a lot fast glazing/build-up techniques that most realistic (and whatever detailed style) painters use, but also, in my experience, too often getting to a bug:  Fully blocking the cursor to further action -gets stuck-  until you use your mouse to move it, then you can use the pen again. The former issue already stops one from willing to paint, the second is a total no-way...

In the bright side of things, I could make it work better with two things. As I am fearing something is messing between the wacom driver (tablet is intuos Pro 4 XL, driver, a recent one that works with all/has no issues), and this particular app (the others, non affinity, behave perfectly in this old machine) in this mater related to the side buttons functions,  I tried two things: 

Not in the "all the other apps", but in the customization for Photo ( which I just added freshly after removing prev customization) in the Wacom panel, the modifier I did set it to be RIGHT ALT, instead of left alt, that I always have for any app. Turns out it started to loose a bit fewer registers/pickings,  noticeably. Then, only for the Photo app, did set this advanced setting that forces a function to be both having the key (button pen) touched AND the tip pen touching the tablet, not "in the air"(default always in wacom). Luckily, it does not make the other button not to work when tapping it with tip in the air (tapping first side button still does uno, with the pen tip in the air) for other functions.

Now, -specially with the second one-  with these two things set (right alt instead of left alt in the second side pen button, and, click in the air disabled), it still loose some color-picking clicks, not getting registered. Whether if it is too many to be able to focus  in painting, few enough not loose motivation, etc, I  yet don't know. If it worked as with the actual real key being pressed, there would be no issue, I believe (have not painted enough with this beta to be sure, yet). With the two tricks applied, I still have to build a new mechanic habit of leaving my finger more time in the side button, after picking, not sure why, but need to keep a high control of how much time to stay picking the color, as too much triggers the wheel, and that's a can of worms (issues) and slows down terribly in actual digital painting/retouching, and too short, wont pick the color there where any other cheapo or expensive apps in same machine have zero issues, even at blazing fast color picking actions, while this happens here with very slow picking.

So, IMO, the option ( maybe not as default, for the non-pro people?) to fully disable the color picker wheel might still be the end solution, specially if it translates to a super fast color picker ( I don't know if the performance in the operation is or not affected by  the amplifier circle code, though).

Yet though, is a slightly better situation.

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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hahahahaha

Solved.

X-Mouse Button to the rescue... I'll explain in a bit....


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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