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Rotating object horizontally with Ctrl J plus rotation


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3 minutes ago, GabrielM said:

You cannot move an object on a global axis and rotate it on a local axis at the same time.

OK, but unless I am still missing something, from a user standpoint we can move an object only along the global (workspace) x-y axis coordinates, while we can rotate it around any of its 'local' anchor points or around any global rotation center we set with the 'show rotation center' option. So in effect, for translation transformations we have no choice besides working in the global domain, while for rotation transformations we can work in either the local or global one, if that makes any sense.

Also, from day one we did not have the choice of using the workspace rotation center in the Transform panel but now we do, so in a sense (if maybe a tenuous one) something has changed, at least partially in response to user requests for that ability. Maybe someday the same will be true for this?

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1 hour ago, GabrielM said:

If it was designed to use global coordinates rather than local, you could not create any "ratio" shapes

But with the system as it currently exists we can not create any linear arrays with rotation, and I know which of those two operations I need more frequently!

Secondly, the ratio feature is currently far less useful than it should be as it can only apply a ratio, not a step change…

  • Draw a 500px square
  • Duplicate
  • Resize in the W transform box as -=50
  • Power Duplicate

I would anticipate the series to go: 500, 450, 400, 350, 300 etc

But the current result is: 500, 450, 405, 364.5, 328.1 etc

Affinity is interpreting the resize as a ratio (a reduction of 10%) when I asked for a fixed change. If I'd wanted a 10% reduction I'd have resized with W*=0.9

I'd love the team to revisit Power Duplicate and make it more intuitive and more versatile.

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This is a variation on Reglico's Idea

  1. Create your favourite Shape
  2. Alt + Move and Rotate to taste (This creates the arc effect)
  3. Select all layers and just choose Align Vertical Centres
  4. Move the End square to your distance of choice
  5. Select all of the layers again and choose Space Horizontally.

 

dup move rotate align.gif

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Just for you Aammppaa lol!

1365147045_tumblingsquare.thumb.gif.a9f17f39ea365e99a5fbe1a403478bad.gif

Disclaimer: I put some laminate flooring down yesterday and slashed some of my finger tips, so bear in mind I'm doing all of this with plasters on the fingers :67_head_bandage: I would normally use the mouse with, else I'd have done it quicker, for serious!

Amendment: you could probably streamline this a bit more and take out probably half of the steps which would make it an acceptable process to get this effect, sometimes it's actually a good idea to record the process and watch it back to see where it could be improved or optimised. Shame we don't have macro's in Designer

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Ultimately what is missing is a shape gradient tool like DrawPlus that allows regular rotation without deforming the intermediate shapes.

Dégradé de formes.png

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@firstdefence You certainly win the award for perseverance :)

Agree that macros would be welcome in AD.

But I really believe that a small tweak to the design of Power Duplicate would make it genuinely quick, powerful, and intuitive.

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11 minutes ago, Aammppaa said:

But I really believe that a small tweak to the design of Power Duplicate would make it genuinely quick, powerful, and intuitive.

Perhaps through the tweak @JimmyJack mentioned in this earlier post?

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On 6/15/2018 at 6:25 PM, Aammppaa said:

Affinity is interpreting the resize as a ratio (a reduction of 10%) when I asked for a fixed change

This is not a Power Duplicate error, but an unwanted transformation of expression. This must be corrected.

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This 'bug' is on both / all platforms, and is I suspect "by design".

I hope it doesn't just get ignored as a result since, as you can see in the above discussion, it really would be a superior feature if it worked a little differently!

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10 minutes ago, Aammppaa said:

I hope it doesn't just get ignored as a result since, as you can see in the above discussion, it really would be a superior feature if it worked a little differently!

Or at least we had the option to choose between the current "by design" behavior & the 'linear' or 'global' one.

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Hi all. 

Just heard back from the devs. Power duplicate works on percentile of the currents value in the background, regardless of the input value. If you input let's say -50px of a 500 image, in the background it will subtract 10% of it. The next calculation will take the result and subtract 10%, and so on. That's why you get 500, 450, 405, 364.5, 328.1 rather than 500, 450, 400, 350, 300. I believe that this is so you can create an infinite number of duplicates. If you were to use integer values, you would get an expression error when reaching 0. In the above case, you could only power duplicate for 10 times if you were to use -50 in the calculation algorithm. By converting everything to percentiles, decreasing the value would "tend to 0" but never reach 0. 

@Aammppaa

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@GabrielM Thanks for getting back to me, but I think that the response misses the point that I raised…

 

If I want to resize a duplicate by percentage I can already do that by using a percentile expression (say -=10%). This is explicit, and unambiguous.

When repeated using Power Duplicate, I continue to get what I asked for: a series of objects each 10% smaller than the last, which is intuitive and logical.

 

If I resize by an exact value (say -=50px ) then this is because I want the duplicate to be exactly 50px smaller than the original. Again this is explicit and unambiguous.

But when I repeat with Power Duplicate, Affinity changes the rules (with no warning) and starts applying a percentile ratio, which is not what was asked for.

This is unintuitive and illogical (not a desirable feature).

 

The two series (fixed steps and percentile ratio) are both desirable and equally valid requirements, so the software must trust that the user knows what they are asking for, and honour the actual request that they made.

Although the 'infinite' series of power duplicates looks great in the video as it showcases Affinity's extreme zoom very nicely, I know that I'd use a fixed step series of duplicates far more frequently than I need percentile changes.

 

Regarding a fixed step reaching exactly 0, there must be a simple and graceful way to handle this…

Perhaps when the size hits 0 the object ceases to exist (and the existing Assistant pops up to inform me that the object reached zero size and disappeared).

Or maybe a zero sized object is OK (though I suspect not since Affinity will not let me define a dimension of 0).

 

Even a situation where we don't hit 0 but go negative is not an issue so long as we understand what a negative dimension means. Take for example an object with original width = 50px, duplicated as a series with a fixed step of -11px = 49, 38, 27, 16, 5, -6, -17 etc.

A precedent for what this means already exists in the software: if I resize a rectangle manually and pass through the zero point the object flips (on the relevant axis) and then grows larger again. It would be logical that the same thing happens when a power duplicate action passes through zero.

1919966466_AffinityFlipThroughZeroPoint.gif.92f520fe8a5a9eae8bd5393bd5b5e978.gif

 

To reiterate: I really hope the devs can revisit the design choices behind Power Duplicate. I am not asking that any existing ability is removed, but rather that the functionality is extended to be more capable, more logical, and more intuitive.

 

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The problem also arises if we want to make concentric circles with the same spacing, the subject has already been discussed here:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/36136-duplicate-or-copy-change-the-empty-space-distance-btw-the-lines-why/&tab=comments#comment-178130

In this case it is impossible to use "Ctrl/Cmd + J". If there are many circles, copy/paste is a real chore!

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