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4 minutes ago, JimmyJack said:

This is something I don't understand.

If it's NOT changing in dimension, why is any resampling being applied at all??

 

dunno.. maybe someone is using some premade workflow involving thumbnails creation or canvas reduction? No resample is needed (I confess I do not use the export persona, tho) at all for a simple PNG export from pixel persona.


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2 minutes ago, JimmyJack said:

If it's NOT changing in dimension, why is any resampling being applied at all??

I think resampling always occurs on export to a raster image format as part of the export process, but that still does not explain why choosing another resampling method besides Nearest Neighbor causes antialiasing even if the dimensions are not changed & everything is perfectly pixel aligned to begin with.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I think resampling always occurs on export to a raster image format as part of the export process, but that still does not explain why choosing another resampling method besides Nearest Neighbor causes antialiasing even if the dimensions are not changed & everything is perfectly pixel aligned to begin with.

...from the vector module, yep. But if he does the work directly in AD's pixel persona, no resample should occur, at all. Or it does never happen in other raster apps. As far as I understood, the Pixel Persona treats stuff in raster. Anyway, my PNG directly exported yesterday from Pixel Persona (not export persona, neither draw persona) is pixel perfect, no blur, no antialias, just as exported from a pure old skool pixel art freebie.


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5 minutes ago, SrPx said:

No resample is needed (I confess I do not use the export persona, tho) at all for a simple PNG export from pixel persona.

How do you avoid choosing a resampling method for any png export? In the export dialog there is no "don't resample" choice, only the 5 methods ranging from "Nearest Neighbor" to "Lanczos 3 (non-separable)."

Edit: the Persona has nothing to do with the export process, which applies to the entire document regardless of the persona(s) used to create its contents.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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11 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I think resampling always occurs on export to a raster image format as part of the export process, but that still does not explain why choosing another resampling method besides Nearest Neighbor causes antialiasing even if the dimensions are not changed & everything is perfectly pixel aligned to begin with.

It's resampling it because that pixel layer has only 36 dpi. Downscale it to half the size (to get/increase it to 72 dpi/match document's dpi) and it will not be resampled on export.

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euh... I guess I even didn't look there, lol, as in any 2D package on whole earth, no resample is set there as an option just in case you change resolution.  but should not be internally applied any, if the procedure does not  involve any single size change at all. IE: it'd be totally needed for a vectors-raster, not from a raster to raster if I'm neither specifying a new size in an export dialog . Which I'm not in this case, as would never be the case in pixel art. I mean, I don't know how they deal in the internals, but I'd be inclined to think that, as in every other app, if size does not change, resample does not happen. Set nearest if does makes u fell better, but...My test was also pretty conclusive...


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Did he set the 36 dpi value in some place, or is it the default dpi of a document for Pixel persona, or another one ? I mean, I did not touch anything, and it exported it perfectly...


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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edit:Oooopppsss...wait a minute....


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2 minutes ago, MEB said:

It's resampling it because that pixel layer has only 36 dpi. Downscale it to half the size (to get 72 dpi/match document's dpi) and it will not be resampled.

Hmmm. My lame 64 px art.afdesign file is set to 72 dpi, but even if I do not resize it & choose (for example) the "Bilinear" resample method, I get a blurry antialiased png file1306901716_lame64pxart.png.dea03cff8ce1562d2acd6807d97ae00b.png (It is not obvious at the original view size but in either an Affinity app or Apple's Preview at even modest zoom levels it is very clearly blurred.)


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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@R C-R,
The layer dpi and the document dpi must match, otherwise there will be resampling. Your document is set to 72 dpi right? Now what's the dpi of the pixel layer? To check this, switch to the Move Tool, click the pixel layer in the Layers panel and take a look at the dpi value on the top left of the interface. What's the value?

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Ok, I got confused for a moment. I simply had started -my bad- a new test file leaving in the new dialog box set a 300 dpi value. Starting one 32x32 at  72 dpi, I export (always) from pixel persona, and checking in other 2D editor, it gets a correct 32x32 px, 72 dpi, one pixel is exact size of one px, and no blur, no antialias. I'm using nearest neighbor, just in case.  


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I can see how a ton of people can as well get caught by this (not anyone's fault).... non officially (as  then people might understand that AD is a pixel art focused tool, maybe! ) but might be a good idea some user (EDIT: kindda did so in a post below) would post some tut on how to set up/use at least  in the document creation and basic tools for pixel art. At least, because I believe a bunch more are going to try (this is at least the second person I've seen trying to do pixel art with vector tools...no, wait, is the third...but who knows how many more have asked....) to use the vector mode for pixel art instead of pixel persona, and, like me, also easily fall into starting a project in 300 dpi or other than 72 dpi, or having some layer at other  than 72 dpi. Or....not. As it'll get buried in the deep forum database, noone would see it. Anyhow, doing stuff properly, it works well as pixel art editor, this 'raster mode' in AD.


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31 minutes ago, MEB said:

It's resampling it because that pixel layer has only 36 dpi. Downscale it to half the size (to get/increase it to 72 dpi/match document's dpi) and it will not be resampled on export.

AH HA! That's got it! Thanks @MEB

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3 minutes ago, MEB said:

R C-R
The layer dpi and the document dpi must match, otherwise there will be resampling. Your document is set to 72 dpi right? Now what's the dpi of the pixel layer?

I am not sure what you mean about the dpi of the pixel layer. This is a single layer file created from scratch in Affinity Designer at 72 dpi & 64 px x 64 px size, originally with no layers. I switched to the Pixel Persona & as soon as I began using the Pixel Tool, the assistant automatically created the single pixel layer for the output of that tool. I created no other layers, nor did I import or place anything else in the document, so I assume the layer is also 72 dpi.

Where would I look to see anything different?


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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2 minutes ago, MEB said:

Check my previous reply. I've added that info there (how to check the dpi of the pixel layer).

OK, I did that & it is indeed set to 36 dpi. So now my question is why? What did I do that set that layer to 36 dpi?


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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Oki, not sure if was for the assistant... I have those disabled always, I just added a pixel layer my self, and when doing so, it seems it adds a 72 dpi one, at least on a new created 72 DPI new file.


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6 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Oki, not sure if was for the assistant...

I don't think the assistant set the layer to 36 dpi because with a brand new text file the same procedure sets the assistant-created layer to 72 dpi, same as the document, not 36 dpi. So it must have been something I did with the earlier file that caused that. My best guess is I resized the pixel layer during testing, but I do not remember doing that, so the failure must be in my old man "wetware," not in the app. :/


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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54 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Starting one 32x32 at  72 dpi, I export (always) from pixel persona ...

Again, unless I am still missing something, it does not matter if you export from the Draw or Pixel Persona.  The File > Export menu item & its "More..." options are the same for both & do the same thing regardless of which of those two personas you access them from. In fact, that is also true of the Export Persona if you just export via the File > Export menu item instead of using the extra features its Layers, Slices, & Export Options panels provide.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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While I'm here, and mostly as I have read many times that "you can't use the tools in Affinity (said even so, in general )  for pixel art". Which I believe is a very wrong statement.It is not its main focus, that's outstandingly obvious, they aim pretty higher, but the capability is totally there ... I think there's enough tools, even if it'd be just fine using only the 1 pixel tool. So, imo, there are tools/things that can be recommended, besides starting the document at 72 dpi and setting from start (well, this wouldn't be particularly needed, but dpi is) the final pixels' size (ie 32x32 px), plus setting nearest neighbor, just in case. And working (I dunno if setting in Pixel View mode (that button up there at the top) benefits the task in some way...) all time in Pixel Persona (using Pixel Tool) of AD (this all below leaves Draw Persona and Export Persona totally out) and directly exported from there.(those only having the AD license. With AP, you probably get more "usable" tools.  ) 

I've done pixel art in many apps (specially PS), but haven't been particularly curious till today about how AD's Pixel Persona would perform for this. I find it interesting. As is a gift inside AD! . You can use all selections that have the antialias checkbox, so that you can disable them, and leave them disabled. So, you can use the following tools, in AD Pixel Persona (I guess many of these applies till certain extent to A. Photo, I have not the license :(  ) , (oh, and keys are in "Windows", u know the equivalent of ctrl in Mac... ) :

- Rectangle marquee selection (perfectly usable, set antialias off)

- Circular selection (idem)

- Row and column selection (idem)

- Lasso selection. (idem) (freehand, polygonal or magnetic) 

- You can fill them all with paint bucket ! (tested neither antialias is generated). You can use the selections to delete chunks as well, of any shape.

- besides, you can use the 'protect alpha' setting in the 1 px tool ("Pixel Tool") settings, at top bar when you are working with this special tool. So, pixels only lay over your character figure, once you have a full silhouette. I would normally not use this, but can come handy. Neither antialias issues detected.

- Pixel Tool is great, inheriting nice details from old shool pixel tools.  CTRL kept pressed is erase mode (as the regular eraser mode would be slower to trigger and DOES produce antialias!) . If you wish 'cause you are more of a background color person rather than using several transparent layers (more of my case) , again in the top bar of settings of the 1 px tool, you can set the option triggered to eraser, to trigger to paint with 'background' instead.

- As with any other Affinity software tool, with 1 pixel tool you alt LMB drag to trigger the canvas color selector (I keep believing a faster non amplifier mode that had no delay is a must for painting, pixel art or regular painting (but is not the only one to suffer from this: Seen it happening too in Krita....))  , which is very convenient for a fast workflow.

- Shift drag while painting to make horizontal lines and vertical lines. Workflow recommended : click, then, staying in same point, shift and then click-drag, then drop shift.

- Shift CLICK (not drag) to get random lines, continued or not, even full polygons. Now, for good pixel art you might want to prefer do manually lines of 2 px steps, etc.

- If you need that much alignment stuff, you could combine the use of selections, set some layers with flat color shapes and set on the "protect alpha" setting for 1 px tool. I don't think it's necessary, tho.

- ctrl click om the layer thumbnails , like in PS or AP, etc, works for selecting quickly all what is painted in the layer (alternative to protect alpha, but also, to do other different operations)

- In menu select, following operations do not produce either antialias, and can be very productive. Advice: in the dialog, type the number entry of px (ie, 1 px), instead of dragging the slider, then hit tab key to see a preview of the selection change, tho it does the marquee preview as in hi res, but once hit enter, it does not do any antialias operation  : grow/shrink (do NOT use feather). Smooth (as this does not seem to add any feather / antialias), useful for rounding stuff fast in a pixel art style. 

- obviously, ctrl +a , ctrl + d , ctrl + shift + i (invert selection) work perfect, no issues, no blur added.

- About alignment, if you make a layers based workflow, you can always align all layers to left, right, bottom.. and/or select several layers (any list of them, or random ctrl picked ones) at a time, and apply a transform to those (ie, flip horizontal, for a walk cycle) . None of this introduces anything dangerous for pixel art solid pixels and unaltered tones.

- As always and from Adobe standards, double click in hand tool zooms to fit desktop, double click in amplifier, sets 1:1 zoom. very useful for pixel art. But some ppl do not know this.

- Layer effects:  Dangerous zone. Maybe would only use color overlay at 100%, selecting "swatches" instead of color wheel, as where to pick the color from in the layer effect dialog, if I made my own custom colors added to swatches (useful for pixel art)., or, use the color picker included in layer effects of  that layer to pick anything on canvas. Most surely, would ctrl/shift click several layers, then would go to Effects tab, near layers tab, and there would do the Layer Effect with color overlay, to change all selected layers fast to one color tone. (of course, all shapes inside that layer would get this color). At any point, I would change any number of layers with this tone by just changing the Effect.

- I probably would not use the blending modes, not in the brush, neither in the layer.  

- handling the layers order, flipping layers, using snapshots, history, etc, that all can be useful.  As well as locking layers, hiding/showing, etc. In many game companies, the workflow is by pieces in the characters, to optimize memory, and combination freedom. Both in pixel art and high res 2D games. I hate it, but is a must in certain jobs and even in freelance projects. That said, there's a ton other projects and companies using full figure sprites. Is good to have the layers flexibility, for any case.

- Generating a New View and moving the windows so they are not tabs any more and resizing the windows, I'd have a mosaic windows organization of 2 vertical tiles, so I get to see one smaller in close to 1:1 or 2:1 (at zoomed out canvas size width) and the other at zoomed in level, where I paint. This way you can even check some animation by switching fast between layers, checking visually both in 1:1 or so, and zoomed in. (tho ideal is doing animation in a proper animation tool, to which you could export the characters from here)

Ok, I've seen some posts of people doing very strange things in AD (again, I'd go for this better in A. Photo) to get pixel art done. This is really very basic (so basic that I've been just checking now for first what stuff is possible apart from the Pixel Tool (as is all I'd need)!), sorry to the most of you, and most contributors to the thread. But I still remember one very strange user case and certain questions... Might be fine to have at least one post with very basic stuff.

EDIT:  Forgot to add some interesting workflows.... You might want to add "Color" window (probably detached to keep it nearer and at your fav location) as a main new color selector, and mostly, the same, probably near to that one, the swatches panel. Set the swatches panel to show in LARGE thumbnails (as typical pixel art only uses some very few colors, and this way is faster/more comfy to select) , also, once you have setup/decided the colors -a lot of people do this (in pixel art and in digital painting) directly painting the samples on canvas on some corner- , your 6 or 8 or whatever main colors (no judging here, a large color palette is nice, too, the heck with the purists, no need to keep 100% emulating for ever the old machines limited capabilities), you can manually add swatches to your swatches palette (hitting the grey painting palette icon there), one by one, or can easily add all your canvas colors (in samples from a corner or in an advanced drawing) with a button touch to the swatches as your main and only palette. You do this by, in this swatches dialog, top corner tiny menu thingy, select "Create palette from document", then "as document palette". If u add more later, u can always repeat this, takes 1 second.  Also cool: you can hit "create palette from image..." , so you would load other image's pixel art colors, useful if working in a game animation or any project globally restricted to a set of colors (you can build new palettes from those adding new colors, etc).

Also, added a screenshot about a setup that could be useful.

 

affinity_designer_pixel_persona_pixel_art_config.png


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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52 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Again, unless I am still missing something, it does not matter if you export from the Draw or Pixel Persona.  The File > Export menu item & its "More..." options are the same for both & do the same thing regardless of which of those two personas you access them from. In fact, that is also true of the Export Persona if you just export via the File > Export menu item instead of using the extra features its Layers, Slices, & Export Options panels provide.

Okidoki, perfect then.  :)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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