Pixel-art persona

[boriscargo]

It could be nice to have a Pixelart persona. 

[walt.farrell]

How would it differ from the current Pixel persona in Affinity Designer?

[boriscargo]

a pixel perfect mode (single pixel wide stroke),  line tool, mirror modes (vertical, horizontal, radial), gradients dithering , dithering tool, animation , onion skin…

[SrPx]

That is, you want   https://www.aseprite.org

[SrPx]

BTW, those are all helpers, you can do all stuff pretty well with just the 1px brush. Done well paid gigs (and got a salary for years) with just that in other tools, pretty fast.

[boriscargo]

50 minutes ago, SrPx said:

That is, you want   https://www.aseprite.org

I know  but Asprite is not very mac friendly. 

I've made this one with Aphoto.

[Medical Officer Bones]

I would recommend Pro Motion NG, which is pretty much the gold standard. No Mac version, although it works via Crossover or Wine. I wonder why the best pixel art editors are only available for the Windows platform, though.

https://www.cosmigo.com/

 

[SrPx]

Because is an art for the poor... Macs are all about hi res.... (J/K)

Anyway, a pity that there's no mac version, as aseprite is such a cute powerful tiny tool.

I've completed a well paid gig very recently, and the only tool (feature) I used, I promise, was the very equivalent tool to AP's Pixel tool. You don't really need more...But Pro Motion is a job bringer (just look at Gameloft job offers... at least 3 years ago, as everybody is asking for 3D in mobiles, now), those aiming for a career should learn it (I worked like 10-12 hours a day doing pixel art in a year and something, and could avoid even opening that tool one single time. It depends on the kind of boss you have, or in the established pipelines. )

Well , I used to make games (personal project$ in this case) with a mate which was all about that wonder of a computer, the Amiga. If those machines would have survived and evolved in the market, I believe they'd still have some focus in ye old pixel art...

[SrPx]

Quite some extra important info in this thread :

 

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

On 6/1/2018 at 4:22 PM, SrPx said:

Because is an art for the poor... Macs are all about hi res.... (J/K)

Anyway, a pity that there's no mac version, as aseprite is such a cute powerful tiny tool.

I've completed a well paid gig very recently, and the only tool (feature) I used, I promise, was the very equivalent tool to AP's Pixel tool. You don't really need more...But Pro Motion is a job bringer (just look at Gameloft job offers... at least 3 years ago, as everybody is asking for 3D in mobiles, now), those aiming for a career should learn it (I worked like 10-12 hours a day doing pixel art in a year and something, and could avoid even opening that tool one single time. It depends on the kind of boss you have, or in the established pipelines. )

Well , I used to make games (personal project$ in this case) with a mate which was all about that wonder of a computer, the Amiga. If those machines would have survived and evolved in the market, I believe they'd still have some focus in ye old pixel art...

I think Macs are traditionally used in graphic design, while Windows machines are generally used more for game work, VFX, and 3d jobs. Well, the lines are much fuzzier nowadays than they used to be.

My first sprites I drew on graph paper which I printed on a dot matrix printer way back when my brother and I got our first "proper" home computer: a C64. (Still got those sheets archived :-) I then poked the data with basic. Later, when we got our first Amiga (1000), I used a hacked version of Deluxe Paint to do game art. Like you, I worked on art for various games with mates who did the programming.

That's really the reason why I like to work in Pro Motion: it is a spiritual successor to Deluxe Paint.

[retrograde]

Hey @boriscargo here's a pixel app for mac and iOS that's similar to Aseprite.

https://pixenapp.com

[SrPx]

13 hours ago, retrograde said:

Hey @boriscargo here's a pixel app for mac and iOS that's similar to Aseprite.

https://pixenapp.com

@boriscargo  While I do firmly believe that you can very well use Affinity Designer's PIXEL PERSONA to make absolutely any pixel art project, no matter how complex, that you would wish to create, feel free to check certain tiny online jewel, browser based, so, platform independent : https://www.piskelapp.com . At first, it seems too basic. But it is not.  Besides having all the right and needed tools to make pixel art, you have also some, and implemented in the RIGHT way, unlike some even commercial pixel art specific tools do, things as useful as instant and constant preview of y our animation (1x or 6x zoom, configurable playback speed (FPS)), onion skinning to see dimmed the previous and next frames (needed for animation, or very convenient), you have layers, file import / export (ie, our loved PNG) , being this extremely advanced and convenient: Exporting as a whole PNG sheet establishing in which columns and rows, or exporting in a zip file as PNG frames with proper naming for easier later on batch operations in whatever utility, or video editor compile, etc, export isolated frames, export as C code (:?), export ads animated gif...REALLY nice. It allows you to clone one layer to all frames, which is so key, imagine you add a new sword to your zelda-like character, this saves a lot of time and tedious work....Also very useful that wherever you put your mouse, is telling you the exact coords in the lower right corner, useful when coding games.

You can create palettes, edit them, import palette from palettes files or existing images, a dithering shading (only one type of dithering, bt that's fine, I build my ditherings manually..) , a lighten/darken tool (quite useful for speeding up) symmetry drawing,  a very cool shape selector that does a lot more than the usual, a "paint all pixels of same color" tool, the pixel paint tool conveniently allows rmb (u can set that in your wacom panel to be one of the side buttons, too) to erase (or paint with whatever u set in bg color),  and EXTREMELY useful tile mode, which is key to do tiles that don't show the repetition pattern (if done well), as an option you can turn on  in settings (tile mode disable some features of animation, but that's fine, as you would be doing tiles or animated sprites, (still, you can do that) rarely both simultaneously. Also, you can set the limit of max FPS to be 60, not 24 as default. Though that'd be a rare situation ).

And it is free. So, having a Mac does not let you without the option of making great pixel art (besides, I believe there are quite many pixel editors for the Mac)...oh... BTW... I thought you meant, about Aseprite,  with "not very mac friendly" as of there was no version for Mac... which is not the case: there are versions for for mac OSX, Linux and WIndows...https://www.aseprite.org/trial/  or you mean that the UI is not similar to usual mac apps ? Is ported, is what it counts, right ?

For making animated sprites, these two are pretty good, the online and free  Piskelapp, and the offline one, 14$, Aseprite. Both can be very well used for tiles, too. So, for everything.

There are two great map editors but those are for windows: Tilestudio and Mappy (they just make it easier the building of large maps for games). IMO, you can do everything with AD Pixel Persona, but maybe for animating character sprites, I'd better recommend that online tool or Aseprite.

[retrograde]

6 hours ago, SrPx said:

@boriscargo  While I do firmly believe that you can very well use Affinity Designer's PIXEL PERSONA to make absolutely any pixel art project, no matter how complex, that you would wish to create, feel free to check certain tiny online jewel, browser based, so, platform independent : https://www.piskelapp.com .

Cheers SrPx looks like a great find!

[SrPx]

3 hours ago, retrograde said:

Cheers SrPx looks like a great find!

You're welcome !   (despite as simple as it seems at first look, it's really good)

But I'm tempted to -as I like experiments, I like Affinity, and as mentioned, I like lately to do more with the same general work horse tool (opposed to what I've been doing for most of my freelancing life)- do some real case scenarios using only with AD's P. Persona. At least non-animated samples. 

 

13 hours ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

I think Macs are traditionally used in graphic design, while Windows machines are generally used more for game work, VFX, and 3d jobs. Well, the lines are much fuzzier nowadays than they used to be.

My first sprites I drew on graph paper which I printed on a dot matrix printer way back when my brother and I got our first "proper" home computer: a C64. (Still got those sheets archived :-) I then poked the data with basic. Later, when we got our first Amiga (1000), I used a hacked version of Deluxe Paint to do game art. Like you, I worked on art for various games with mates who did the programming.

That's really the reason why I like to work in Pro Motion: it is a spiritual successor to Deluxe Paint.

I hear you. I did that too ! With the Spectrum 48k (I remember one could be a Spectrum, Commodore, Amstrad or Amiga (well that's a commodore...) kind of geek). Also drew those on paper grids, passed those by BASIC's READ/DATA (redefining character keys pixels), then messing with INT RND functions to fool BASIC, as interaction with usual BASIC had probs for typical games. I don't keep the sheets (but yep my first comic, from the same years, lol). An Amiga...then you were one of those I hated secretly with non healthy envy... Yeah, DP, and DP II, and DPA. And Animator 1.0 from Autodesk (heck, they've been around a while...) . Sadly, I had no mates for doing this, started one team project like this in the 80s, but in the end was mostly me doing all, high school studies got serious, so I did quit.

I keep hearing that... still, for some weird reason I never found Pro Motion familiar/comfortable... 

[boriscargo]

On 6/2/2018 at 9:46 PM, SrPx said:

Quite some extra important info in this thread :

 

 

thanks for the info @SrPx

[boriscargo]

14 hours ago, retrograde said:

Hey @boriscargo here's a pixel app for mac and iOS that's similar to Aseprite.

https://pixenapp.com

hey, I know I just bought pixenapp, but several function doesn't work. No support from the developper. Pixenapp seems to be a abandonware. 15$ lost.

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

@SrPx For fun download Deluxe Paint 5 at https://thecompany.pl/game/Deluxe+Paint+5.2

It's a packaged Amiga Emulator with Deluxe Paint, and runs as a regular desktop application (well, almost...). Hit F12 to change the view mode (I prefer windowed mode: modern screens ruin the proportions it was supposed to run at originally). It's fun to play around with.

PS I made the mistake to download Jetstrike from that site, and I am completely hooked again.

I tried PiskelApp a few months ago when I first heard about it, but again the palette isn't a true indexed colour palette, which I prefer to work with. Aside from this, the GUI drives me insane, because everything is fixed in place, nothing can be customized. The preview is tiny on my 2560x1440 screens, and cannot be properly zoomed in or out. When I open the preview in a popup the window hides behind the main window. Urgh. And I can't move the canvas freely when zoomed out: it locks at the edges of the canvas.

Layer functionality is severely limited, and opacity is controlled via an awkward popup. Palette control is nigh-on non-existant. The pixel drawing tool doesn't support 1px drawing, forcing me to do more cleanup. And so on. 

It has a couple of interesting option, I agree. Good for beginning pixel artists. But too confined and limited for my taste. Still, it is a free product.

The thing that bothers me most nowadays is that most apps just don't offer very good or controllable timelines to do animation with. And if they do, then they generally don't focus enough on pixeling tools. Or lack an indexed colour palette option. No one app seems to offer the perfect balance. Since I do a lot of animation, any tool I use should have good animation control and tools.

• Affinity lacks animation and an indexed colour palette option. The tools are okay for pixeling. Lacks in various departments: non-proportional pixels, 1px clean drawing, etc. The lack of animation tools are an automatic fail, unfortunately.
• Photoshop has an indexed mode, but turns off most functionality: no layers, most filters don't work. And besides, the timeline is pretty horrific to work with, but at least PS has animation. Again lacking focused pixeling tools. It's okay for pixel art. Similar limitations as Affinity.
• Asesprite gets a lot right, and so much wrong at the same time. The timeline is nice, and layer-based. Great pixeling tools. Indexed is there if you want it. But the GUI. The GUI makes no sense at all to me: why force a low-resolution pixel interface? Why is everything static and nothing can't be customized or at least the workspace tailored to a user's individual preferences? The low resolution affects the app's usability in SO many ways, it is difficult to know where to start. Just look at the layers GUI: extra popup dialogs to change the opacity, the blend mode, etc.
• Krita. Really nice animation timeline, layer based. Nice onion skinning, very controllable compared to most other editors. Pixel brushes now come standard, and a pixel grid. No indexed colours, though, and tools such as the circle tool don't work properly for pixel art (devs are working on this, I read). If only Krita had an indexed colour mode.
• PhotoLine lacks proper animation tools, although the layer stack can be used as a timeline for animation. Similar situation as with Affinity and Photoshop. Good and bad things for pixel art. Again no indexed colour mode. Good control over anti-aliasing of vectors, though.
• GraphicsGale is kinda nice to work with, although the GUI is rather outdated and clunky. Good indexed palette support. Good pixeling tools (including pixel perfect drawing). The timeline is frame-based and doesn't work with layers, unfortunately. Similar to Photoshop and PiskelApp and many other off-the-shelf pixel art editors.
• Pro Motion NG leaves little desired for palette control and pixeling tools. Brush workflow may not be everyone's cup of tea, though it is powerful. Nice proper standard layer controls and GUI. And the GUI is very customizable. The timeline is the standard 1 frame no layers affair again, sadly enough, which is maddening since it is pretty close to what I envision to be the perfect pixel art animation app.

Just a small comparison. What strikes me as odd is that no singular app gets it completely right for pixel work in my opinion. If good pixeling tools are present, the timeline is wanting. If the timeline is great, no index palette control and the pixeling tools aren't good enough compared to other applications. And so on, and so forth.

If Pro Motion NG would have a layered timeline like the one in Krita or Asesprite it would be almost perfect. But it doesn't. But even those timelines leave something to be desired. The timeline of OpenToonz would be the perfect finishing touch.

Ah, one can dream. At least I am no longer using graph paper The more we get, the more we desire, I suppose.

 

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

8 minutes ago, boriscargo said:

hey, I know I just bought pixenapp, but several function doesn't work. No support from the developper. Pixenapp seems to be a abandonware. 15$ lost.

 

You should be able to get your money back - most consumer laws in countries allow you to change your mind within a week.

That said, a quick look at the reviews and comments on the Mac store show that it hasn't been updated in a looong time. Abandonware indeed.

[boriscargo]

3 minutes ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

You should be able to get your money back - most consumer laws in countries allow you to change your mind within a week.

That said, a quick look at the reviews and comments on the Mac store show that it hasn't been updated in a looong time. Abandonware indeed.

Hard to get your money back if nobody answer… and didn't buy it on the mac store :-(

If you like  Deluxe Paint, there is a tribute here :

https://store.steampowered.com/app/432030/Swanky_Paint/

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

@boriscargo you could do far worse than Krita for pixeling work. Available for Mac and completely free. The timeline is perfect for pixel animation.

But why didn't you get Asesprite for Mac? Same price as PiskelApp, and native Mac. Well, you will have to deal with that GUI (personal experience may vary).

[boriscargo]

12 hours ago, SrPx said:

@boriscargo .https://www.aseprite.org/trial/  or you mean that the UI is not similar to usual mac apps ? Is ported, is what it counts, right ?

yes, UI, open files dialogs box… but I can deal with it.

I will give a try to piskelapp, thanks.

There's also an interesting tool, not pixelart only. hexels

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

Here is a nice list of pixel editors by Lospec.

https://lospec.com/pixel-art-software-list

And Lospec also has some good tutorials, as well as great colour palettes for download.

[SrPx]

A bit in a big hurry now, so, while I'll give a longer reply tomorrow, I'll only say this : There's no perfect pixel pushing application (and surely no perfect application for anything graphic). But a lot of other pixel pushing pros just use PS for all. At the job, years ago, I'd pull the 100% of my work just faking an onion skin with layers opacity, and doing the trick of saving the psd, ctrl + s, as I'd have Animation Shop (super old PSP version, from a magazine DVD, that had A. Shop) all time open, alt tab, and would just refresh to check the changes. This had the double advantage of training in me the capability of working in my brain the timings and anim by almost a guess. Later on I'd load a certain external light, tiny utility -can't remember the name- always on top, that would load a layered file -cant either remember the exact file format, if tiff or psd-  displaying constantly the animation by auto refreshing the layered file from disk constantly, and being an app/window with the "always on top" setting triggered on, so it worked as one more window over my PS at that company. I had only to get used to hit ctrl+s in PS to see the anim changes. 

And I was able to animate tons of sprites so, and be paid a nice salary for it , for long... So, any of those lacks in the several applications, seem to me minimal in comparison, after so long time with a much poorer workflow   Is all about what one gets used to.

IE, low res interfaces, I have had to handle a lot, as is the majority of sprite based tools in Windows, a much more common thing than in macs.

Yes krita has a great time line. But also, the wrap around mode, toggle-able by key shortcut, very useful for making tiles. And the isometric grids, etc.  Still, I have a performance issue -or maybe a bug- with the color picker, both in pixel art and in illustration.

At certain job producing for a huge distro (mobiles and games for mobiles) we could deal without having palette handling in the actual editor (indeed, we had the features, but never use those from there, it was handled by the coders), other than using certain specific colors, carried in each frame... also as I used external freebies for that in windows. And the coders were very capable o deal with all that and even make tools for the purpose. Pal handling for me is not a need...also, because among the most requests I can get today for pixel art is from indy games developers, and those don't have ye olde restrictions in their (own, or using some pre-made modern one) engine. They are just after  this aesthetic for two main reasons:  Own nostalgic feeling they have and besides, they know they'll get ppl of certain generation interested, plus, the younger ones seem to love pixel art as well, for some strange reason, and the other main reason is due to it reduces graphic production costs by a 5000:1 ratio, memory is extremely lighter and production is way faster... One only pixel artist can create an entire game content. Much harder for an artist to generate alone the entire 2d/3d content (with its high count modeling versions and exported normal maps from those, using a PBR material workflow, etc. You really need quite a of few very talented people for that. ) of a current gen game, even if limited to typical indy constraints.

I believe am gonna try my old "previewer" method with AD Pixel Persona, and probably AP, later on. Again, as trying to figure out all my profile-activities to be slowly ported to Affinity.