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Successive styles are like "if I set first para to H1, then set the next as P1, and the next to Pnormal, after that Pnormal until empty para, after which again H1, repeat".

Conditional styles would be like "If para contains less than 6 words, set it H1, if para is after H1 set it P1, if para is after P1 set ti Pnormal, if para is after Pnormal, set it Pnormal, if para is empty set next H1, if para starts "Figure" set Caption, repeat".

 

That would be rules based automatic styling, like GREP for styles setting. In magazine layout work that would be quite a timesaver.

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So like InDesign's GREP styles that are (can be) part of the paragraph definition? ID doesn't have the logic as indicated. However, using GREP styles in combination with Apply Next more or less gets one there for simple layouts.

 

For myself, I can get away with Apply Next in short sections or in something that is simple and absolutely repeatable. But it does break down with deviation from a uniform layout. Same with GREP styles, though it too is limited due to a lack of logic.

 

Scripting, on the other hand, can combine both concepts with logic in a layout with already defined paragraph/character styles...and that's the issue. There has to be at least the H1 you mention already applied. If it is all "normal" or "body" text there can be no logical progression.

 

This all applies to QXP's conditional styles. For fun I have formatted an entire book that had known, repeatable paragraph blocks. (It was a cook book). I do use Q's conditional styles quite a bit, but there too it all depends on predictable (logical) paragraphs. In your first example, it sounds repeatable, predictable. So I think it would work because of the built-in blank paragraph. But for the word count then application of another style, I think only scripting can do that. It's the "if" statements that require the scripting.

 

The only truly automated layout I have hitherto been able to do where there was not predictability was using tagged text. Then it doesn't matter if there is predictability.

 

 

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The texts I use with have quite well defined content rules so it is possible to use those rules to automate layout. There will always be exceptions which need correction but I would guess 95 % of paragraphs would be tagged right.

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On 12. April 2018 at 4:00 PM, MikeW said:

So if the only mechanism for setting a drop cap is some interactive feature, it may not be so nice in practice.

 

Yep. For serious users it would be (only) useful if the height (and position) of the “Q” in the video would be optically correct. Please make it possible before 1.2, Serif.

 

The same applies to an even spacing of big headlines. Serif could have corrected at least manually before the shoot.

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On 12/04/2018 at 3:02 PM, Arnaud Mez said:

From what i have read up to now, most of us here ask functionalities trying to make Affinity products to become what we all are trying to get rid of.

Let's put thing together not trying to make APub become ID nor QXP not Scribbus nor one of those out there but just Affinity Apub.

I really like QXP and ID — I didn't played enough with Scibus to have an opinion for now — the problem is not those apps, but the prices, for independants and compagnies.

Those apps were/are coded by smart people, adding good features or not so good ones, and most of them come from knowing how to do books, magazines, flyers… I don't think a new apps should "réinventer la roue"/ reinvent the wheel. Some free apps tend to do this, and most people won't use them because they don't want to learn again from scratches because features get others names or stranges parameters, etc.

Adding improvement is important, but it shouldn't be an alien software.

 

14 hours ago, Fixx said:

Successive styles are like "if I set first para to H1, then set the next as P1, and the next to Pnormal, after that Pnormal until empty para, after which again H1, repeat".

Conditional styles would be like "If para contains less than 6 words, set it H1, if para is after H1 set it P1, if para is after P1 set ti Pnormal, if para is after Pnormal, set it Pnormal, if para is empty set next H1, if para starts "Figure" set Caption, repeat".

 

That would be rules based automatic styling, like GREP for styles setting. In magazine layout work that would be quite a timesaver.

As @MikeW   said, you can do this in ID with Object's style and "Next paragraph style" options, and with scripts (i.e. to count words and apply styles)… GREP can be use in paragraph styles to apply characters styles, or in search/replace or in scripts…

When you work every month on the same publication, or on huge books, knowing those tricks is a time saver.

The other important one is using styles' shortcut.

 

But we can't expect such features in a first version of APub.

 

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Scribus is free and can get help you out until Affinity Publisher is released. When the beta cycle starts, you can use the beta also but I have to warn you, it is risky.

I am planning to use the beta version together with Ragtime (which I use now just until aPub is released). I also have Designer and Photo and I do not want to use anything else anymore.

But like somebody else has said, if you can master the free Scribus, that can help you also. I would not recommend PagePlus because there is no longer any development anymore. Also those deprecated "Plus" applications are not compatible with the much better Affinity range.

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3 hours ago, Wosven said:

I really like QXP and ID — I didn't played enough with Scibus to have an opinion for now — the problem is not those apps, but the prices, for independants and compagnies.

Those apps were/are coded by smart people, adding good features or not so good ones, and most of them come from knowing how to do books, magazines, flyers… I don't think a new apps should "réinventer la roue"/ reinvent the wheel. Some free apps tend to do this, and most people won't use them because they don't want to learn again from scratches because features get others names or stranges parameters, etc.

Adding improvement is important, but it shouldn't be an alien software.

 

As @MikeW   said, you can do this in ID with Object's style and "Next paragraph style" options, and with scripts (i.e. to count words and apply styles)… GREP can be use in paragraph styles to apply characters styles, or in search/replace or in scripts…

When you work every month on the same publication, or on huge books, knowing those tricks is a time saver.

The other important one is using styles' shortcut.

 

But we can't expect such features in a first version of APub.

 

 

While Object styles (in the ID sense), GREP styles or Nested styles may not be in APub from the start, Next style application will be in the first APub. They are in AD. I don't know how well they work as I do not use AD for serious production and, as far as text-based work goes, I wouldn't use it for more than a trifold or such anyway.

 

Scripting is coming, and it will be JavaScript, but I neither know when nor if the Affinity DOM will completely be exposed or not.

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1 minute ago, Bad_Wolf said:

...I would not recommend PagePlus because there is no longer any development anymore. Also those deprecated "Plus" applications are not compatible with the much better Affinity range.

 

I have no issue with recommending PP for Windows users. Seeing how nothing other than a Serif Affinity product is "compatible" with Affinity products, that PP isn't also isn't a consideration. That it is no longer developed doesn't mean it stops working...until such time as MS kills it via changes in the Windows OS. That is likely further down the road than APub's version 1 cycle.

 

PP is a relatively solid product. And is cheap. I would use it on a Windows system before I learned the arcane Scribus anyway. (I have used Scribus for professional production. I hate the thing.)

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6 hours ago, Fixx said:

The texts I use with have quite well defined content rules so it is possible to use those rules to automate layout. There will always be exceptions which need correction but I would guess 95 % of paragraphs would be tagged right.

 

Then I think something akin to, and maybe smarter / more flexible than, Q's conditional styles would work fine.

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Wow, while I wasn't looking this topic took off! Two more contributions:

1) The main reason I'm getting away from Adobe (like most here) is not so much the price (extortion) but the fact that the software is bloated, redundant, confused and confusing, and Adobe seemingly has no interest in fixing it (remember PageMaker in the 90s? Version 4 had all the same issues, so the coders rebuilt it from scratch and version 5 was great; hence Affinity's appeal for me).

2) InDesign's book feature does do a good job tying together separate stories as chapters, including page numbering, index, etc.: If I don't use BookPlus, how do I do that in PagePlus X9?


Beginning to believer be, in all things Affinity.

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4 hours ago, MikeW said:

I have no issue with recommending PP for Windows users. Seeing how nothing other than a Serif Affinity product is "compatible" with Affinity products, that PP isn't also isn't a consideration. That it is no longer developed doesn't mean it stops working...until such time as MS kills it via changes in the Windows OS.

 

SerifLabs’ ‘Top Cat’ Tony Brightman has stated on the CommunityPlus Forum (the support channel for Serif’s ‘Plus’ applications) that if a Windows update breaks something they will patch their legacy software titles as long as they’re still selling them. They’ve stopped selling WebPlus and MoviePlus, which lets them off the hook as far as those applications are concerned, but they’re still selling PagePlus, PhotoPlus and DrawPlus.


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Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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17 minutes ago, Leslie Richelle said:

InDesign's book feature does do a good job tying together separate stories as chapters, including page numbering, index, etc.: If I don't use BookPlus, how do I do that in PagePlus X9?

 

Page numbering in PPX9 is very flexible. By default the numbers in a document will continue from the previous chapter, but you can override that to restart numbering completely or to start a new section with your choice of numbering. The latter includes choosing between Arabic numerals and uppercase or lowercase Roman numerals (so that, for example, you could use lowercase Roman numerals for the front matter, Arabic numerals for the main body of the book and uppercase Roman numerals for the appendix).


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Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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16 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

SerifLabs’ ‘Top Cat’ Tony Brightman has stated on the CommunityPlus Forum (the support channel for Serif’s ‘Plus’ applications) that...

 

Yeah, I know. But whether if that fateful Windows update occurs far enough down the road, Serif might not be able to keep that promise for a variety of reasons. It's a well-meaning statement that I myself wouldn't hold against them for not being able to keep. Nor depend upon for my business. 

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52 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Page numbering in PPX9 is very flexible. By default the numbers in a document will continue from the previous chapter, but you can override that to restart numbering completely or to start a new section with your choice of numbering. The latter includes choosing between Arabic numerals and uppercase or lowercase Roman numerals (so that, for example, you could use lowercase Roman numerals for the front matter, Arabic numerals for the main body of the book and uppercase Roman numerals for the appendix).

I was under the impression that each chapter of a book would be a separate document; BookPlus was needed to "tie" all those docs together, the way InDesign does with its Book utility. Not so? I can do everything—150 + pages, dozen chapters—using section formatting and master pages, and PP won't choke on it?


Beginning to believer be, in all things Affinity.

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If you use BookPlus, then yes, it uses separate publications. They don't need to be specifically single chapters.

 

I've done 200+ page catalogs and a few table art books in PP. Always in a single file. The catalogs have had 10 and more master pages (one for each section).

 

I also don't use the book feature in ID or QXP, either.

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43 minutes ago, Leslie Richelle said:

I can do everything—150 + pages, dozen chapters—using section formatting and master pages, and PP won't choke on it?

 

The primary cause of PP choking is a project file which has grown too big. You can avoid this by linking resources such as images (especially large images) instead of allowing them to be embedded in the document. Such a document will load more quickly and be less prone to corruption.


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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23 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

The primary cause of PP choking is a project file which has grown too big. You can avoid this by linking resources such as images (especially large images) instead of allowing them to be embedded in the document. Such a document will load more quickly and be less prone to corruption.

 

54 minutes ago, MikeW said:

If you use BookPlus, then yes, it uses separate publications. They don't need to be specifically single chapters.

I've done 200+ page catalogs and a few table art books in PP. Always in a single file. The catalogs have had 10 and more master pages (one for each section).

I also don't use the book feature in ID or QXP, either.

Got it. Very reassuring—I'll be using the right stuff in the right way. Thank you, gentlemen.


Beginning to believer be, in all things Affinity.

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