Export to PDF fails to preserve layers

[firstdefence]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

Show me documentation of where in Illustrator objects are termed layers. Really. I'm interested in reading it as I have never seen it.

Just because the term layer isn't used doesn't mean the object created i.e a Rectangle in illy hasn't been created on a layer, in Illy they call it an Object but what is the Object on? Its not "on" an Object it "is" an Object but on what is the Object on?

 

Do I get a medal for mentioning Object a lot?  

 

 

 

 

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

Show me documentation of where in Illustrator objects are termed layers. Really. I'm interested in reading it as I have never seen it.

As I said, I mean that all objects are in some kind of layer. For an example of that in Illustrator's documentation, https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/using/layers.html should do.

[R C-R]

8 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

Do I get a medal for mentioning Object a lot?  

No, but you might if you can come up with an unambiguous definition of "object" that everywhere in all the documentation of every app always means the same thing.

 

For extra credit, include the rule (there is one, surprisingly enough) for how the verb & noun meanings of words like "object" & "record" are pronounced in the English language to distinguish one from the other.

[MikeW]

18 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

Just because the term layer isn't used doesn't mean the object created i.e a Rectangle in illy hasn't been created on a layer, in Illy they call it an Object but what is the Object on? Its not "on" an Object it "is" an Object but on what is the Object on?

 

Do I get a medal for mentioning Object a lot?  

 

 

 

 

Objects are on layers. There's always, by default, Layer 1. So unless one creates more layers and moves or creates objects on those layers, all objects regardless of object type, they are on Layer 1.

[MikeW]

13 minutes ago, R C-R said:

As I said, I mean that all objects are in some kind of layer. For an example of that in Illustrator's documentation, https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/using/layers.html should do.

 

Which is opposed to what you wrote earlier. 

 

Serif can call the sky an ocean. Doesn't make it so.

 

If you are responding to someone who wants to create a rectangle what are you going to call it? A rectangular shaped layer? If a term causes enough confusion, it likely is an incorrect term.

 

This subject qualifies. 

[MikeW]

8 minutes ago, R C-R said:

No, but you might if you can come up with an unambiguous definition of "object" that everywhere in all the documentation of every app always means the same thing.

 

For extra credit, include the rule (there is one, surprisingly enough) for how the verb & noun meanings of words like "object" & "record" are pronounced in the English language to distinguish one from the other.

 

Setting aside the word object, any vector application that has discreet layers calls them that. And they don't call placed or drawn "things" layers.

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Objects are on layers. There's always, by default, Layer 1.

Not in the Affinity apps. The default container is the document itself, & there is nothing wrong with that.

 

2 minutes ago, MikeW said:

If you are responding to someone who wants to create a rectangle what are you going to call it? A rectangular shaped layer?

I am going to call it a rectangle that is on a layer of its own. I do that because that is exactly what it is.

[MikeW]

What you quoted in the first quote was about Illustrator, silly duck.

 

The rest is just dumb.

[firstdefence]

I think this is a case of Splitting Layers  

[MikeW]

7 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

I think this is a case of Splitting Layers  

Unfortunately it isn't as is evident earlier in the thread. You yourself had confusion. 

 

Mike 

[firstdefence]

Well I've asked on Adobe and their consensus is that Objects are sublayers

[MikeW]

What does on Adobe mean?

[firstdefence]

26 minutes ago, MikeW said:

What does on Adobe mean?

Adobe Discussions Illustrator section.

 

[MikeW]

The two responders are wrong. Read the article for help.

 

There is always a Layer 1. Adobe's help variously calls what one draws or places on that or subsequent layers content or objects. 

 

Layers can have sublayers. These sub layers can also contain objects or content. In complicated drawings, I have used the for sub assemblies belonging to the larger assembly. It allows, among other things, turning off parts of the layer and still seeing the rest of the assembly they belong to. Think of nested layers for organization. 

 

But you do get a gold star for the effort. 

[firstdefence]

13 minutes ago, MikeW said:

But you do get a gold star for the effort. 

Yay lol! I think we should all beg to differ and move on eh! Whatever perspectives we have it kind of works for us all.

[MikeW]

Oh, man I was so enjoying beating this dead horse! Or was that riding my hobby horse? 

 

I get so confused...

 

 

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

 

Setting aside the word object, any vector application that has discreet layers calls them that.

 

Would anyone reading this thread object (not to be confused with "object", with the emphasis on the first syllable) if I were to mention that there's an important difference between "discreet" and "discrete"??

 

 

[MikeW]

 

Grrrammmer isn't my string suite sometimes. All intentional.

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, Alfred said:

Would anyone reading this thread object (not to be confused with "object", with the emphasis on the first syllable) if I were to mention that there's an important difference between "discreet" and "discrete"??

Curiously, if I do a web search on "Discrete layer" site:adobe.com I get exactly one hit: Workflow Issues | Adobe Community - Adobe Forums. It is the only instance of that two word phase I can find on the entire Adobe site. It was in a reply by a user to another user's question, not in any Adobe documentation. So I have to wonder if using that phrase in the context of this discussion, regardless of how it is spelled, really clarifies anything, either for Adobe or Affinity product users.

[MikeW]

Really, R?

 

Come on. Those two words are ones I choose only here on this forum to distinguish the every thing on a page is or artboard is a layer and an actual created LAYER. Emphasis is mine, so don't bother searching Adobe's forum for layer in all caps.

 

Geez.

[R C-R]

11 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Really, R?

Yes, really. As I said, I have to wonder if that phrase clarifies anything for anybody. Like, what would be the alternative, a "non-discrete" layer?

 

Regardless, at least for me the real issue here is if there is any compelling reason to force every object (or at least most of them) to be in some parent Layer, as opposed to the document itself being the parent if a user prefers that. Personally, I use Affinity Layers sparingly, only when they offer some advantage I would not get if I used Groups instead, like color coding bounding boxes & such, or preserving the Layer structure for PDF exports. Otherwise, they are just a complication I prefer to avoid. I don't think I am alone in this respect but that really doesn't matter. It is just my preference, nothing more. I don't think there is anything stupid or dumb about it.

 

But that said, I still think the Affinity layer/Layer terminology is confusing. It is just that I don't see any obvious way to eliminate it, given how Affinity implements the document container model. Since I prefer that implementation, I don't want to see anything that changes it, no matter how Adobe or any other software maker implements it.

[DBai]

On 3/26/2018 at 11:19 AM, firstdefence said:

If everything is a "Layer" be it a Curve, Shape, Text and/or Image - rasterised or otherwise what is the point of a Layer, I.e and empty container, what advantage or feature does a Layer have that a layer does not? 

Maybe I'm not getting it but I don't know what the fuss is with Curves, Shapes, Text, Images being layers, I always assumed they were layers anyway, separate and distinct from each other. 

 

I know Illustrator has Layers they would be better called pages or sheets because they are like sheets of a document, in Affinity they are the sum of its parts and not bound by the dimensions of the document size. I see that as a Plus. 

I'm a little late to this game, but I think I can shed light on this (at least from the perspective of how I want to use layered PDFs). I design and make PDF bag patterns and have recently purchased a few clothing patterns that have layers. It's great because, normally clothing patterns are infamous for being hard to find your cutting line. If it's a kid's pattern, say, then each size (2T, 3T, 4T, 5, etc.) will have a different colored and often line/dash pattern. But they overlap in places (since grading sewing patterns is NOT just a matter of scaling them!). Where they overlap or come close (or even if some lines print up in a similar color), it's REALLY hard to see your cutting line. So when I got these layered ones where you can just untick the boxes for the sizes you don't want and JUST print the sizes of the pattern pieces you want, I was thrilled! They then have the "MUST PRINT" layers that are all of the text, instructions, photos, etc. So that's how I want to do some aspects of my PDF bag patterns too and I often draw my shapes right in Designer! :)

[firstdefence]

Hi @DBai I understand all of that, I was really just thinking out loud. A Layer is probably just a container to keep things tidy and in itself is nothing special but a distinction has to be made between the two names and a capital L is the indicator for what I consider the container Layer.

As with other layers it might be prudent to give the Layer layer a sub name such as 

• Layer (Container) 
• Layer (Sheet) 
• Layer (Board)
• Layer (Page) or something like that, anything but Layer (Layer). 

Layer (Layer) is not really a good syntax and sounds like your consoling someone. 

My tongues going numb saying layer all the time. 

[gregorj]

The problem is while Affinity Designer may recognize the layers, your printer or a client's printer is more likely to be using an Adobe product.  The compatibility issue is quite critical.  I would love to use Designer and Affinity Publisher as alternatives to Adobe's CC but that isn't possible in most cases without restructuring documents in Illustrator. The PDFs provided have a single layer with nested layers - in Adobe language that is a group and they would still require restructuring for 

Until Affinity makes this a tool that can be used in professional projects, Illustrator still needs to be the go to application since Freehand was killed.  However, for the moment QuarkXpress is quickly surpassing Indesign in version 8 and the upcoming version 9.  It's not cheap but you own it....

[shinebox]

Not sure if this has been solved yet, but I managed to export a PDF from AD with all layer sets preserved. Don't use an art board (copy your layer groups into a new document without the art board) and export using the PDF x/4 preset. Works for me. My apologies if this is old news.