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WMax70

Affinity in Microsoft Store

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Since end of 2016 I own Affinity Photo. I'm very happy with it, great software.
Time to expand, so Designer would be my next.

However, I found Affinity Designer was 25% off compared to the regular website.
So I asked affinity; "Is there a difference between the microsoft appstore application and buying via the website?"
Answer;"The end product is the same. The Microsoft store does have a sale on at the moment."

 

So I bought it via Microsoft store. No refund option, but as I know Affinity, having fine software great support, and the end should be the same, I did not really care.
This until I bought Affinity via the Microsoft store. \

Affinity immediate started to download and installing on my PC, but... 

- I did not get a license nr
- I did get the 
BONUS - Grade UI Kit via the introduction window
- My software is not registered in Affinity like Photo, only the the UI Kit is added
- I'm not able to download and install and backup the exe. But I'm now delivered to the Microsoft store.


So it became a big disappointed and I felt misled by Affinity for the first time.
I even cannot return the software via the Microsoft store to re buy it at the Affinity store. 

 

PLEASE TAKE CARE, BUYING VIA THE MICROSOFT STORE RETURN IS A DIFFERENT PRODUCT STATE THAN BUYING FROM AFFINITY DIRECT
The Affinity sales support was not honest here to me. I.m.o. they lacked good info and I did not end up with the same software status and did not get the bonus Kit.

Hope Affinity they will correct it for me but be warned that it turns out to a serious difference. 


 

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10 hours ago, WMax70 said:

The end product is the same.

 

They should have said that the end product is functionally the same. You get a Corner Tool, artboards, text on a path, etc, and you get automatic updates, but you don’t get a product key and your contract is with Microsoft rather than Serif.


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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5 hours ago, Alfred said:

 

They should have said that the end product is functionally the same. You get a Corner Tool, artboards, text on a path, etc, and you get automatic updates, but you don’t get a product key and your contract is with Microsoft rather than Serif.


Thanks Alfred, you did get the point!

Yes indeed, that frustrates me most. It is not the same end product, but it is indeed as you write just "functional" the same.
Same comparison like Photoshop. It is functionality the same, but you get a license per month. Many left Photoshop for this reason. (So did I)
I would have spend that 25% more if I knew this would happen before. And I even asked it.

Most frustrating is that I cannot refund the software via Microsoft. Once bought, it is over, your locked in Microsoft and have not direct relation with Serif.
I got no chance to undo it and to redo all at the serif site. 
If they would have told me this upfront, "functional the same but contract with Microsoft instead of us", I would not have bought Designer via the Microsoft store.

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1 hour ago, WMax70 said:

If they would have told me this upfront, "functional the same but contract with Microsoft instead of us", I would not have bought Designer via the Microsoft store.

I learned the hard way long ago that no matter what any customer support person tells you, it is very important to read & understand the terms & conditions of the license before buying any software from any seller, & much more so when buying from a third party reseller. That is because the licensing agreement is made with the seller, & that agreement may include limitations or other provisions that the support people are not aware of, or may not interpret correctly. It isn't (usually) because they are trying to mislead anybody; it is because they are not legal experts & nothing they tell you is legally binding.

 

It is kind of a catch 22 thing: the licensing terms explain this, usually with boilerplate about it being the full extent of the agreement, but you have to read it to find that out. >:(


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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18 hours ago, WMax70 said:

I'm not able to download and install and backup the exe. But I'm now delivered to the Microsoft store.

Is downloading an backing up the .exe that important? Can't you simply reinstall from the MS Store if you need to? That should even cover installing on a new machine.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.356), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.7.3.475 Beta

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31 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Is downloading an backing up the .exe that important? Can't you simply reinstall from the MS Store if you need to? That should even cover installing on a new machine.

 

It’s nice to be able to install software when you don’t have an Internet connection. And even if you do have Internet access, it may be via a limited and/or expensive mobile data plan.


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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57 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Is downloading an backing up the .exe that important? Can't you simply reinstall from the MS Store if you need to? That should even cover installing on a new machine.

Walt, yes downloading is that importantt.

I bought the software for my son. (He is 17) and needs software for his school.
He is designing a website. Just for education, but now needs for a short period designer software
This was the original intention to buy the software. Because he is 17, I bought te software. 
Further more, when he was finished with I could continue with it and the money was well spend. 

But now I ran in trouble, because I have it on my Windows account now and cannot provide it on his computer.
That is why it was important.
Adobe offers educational accounts which are more expensive, but now, in this situation, this was cheaper. Now I have to buy it twice just for a short period of use.
This I hate.
 

Second point is also what Alfred mentioned, but ok, I've internet speed enough today, so not the first concern.
However, once internet fails, I'm out. Again, this was the reason I left Adobe!

I hope Affinity team will contact me to find a way to correct this because this was really an unintended misunderstanding. (from both sides)
At least have the trust they will to find a way out. As said, I feel it also as an unintended misunderstanding fro Affinity which can happen, but which also can be corrected easily.

 

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

I learned the hard way long ago that no matter what any customer support person tells you, it is very important to read & understand the terms & conditions of the license before buying any software from any seller, & much more so when buying from a third party reseller. That is because the licensing agreement is made with the seller, & that agreement may include limitations or other provisions that the support people are not aware of, or may not interpret correctly. It isn't (usually) because they are trying to mislead anybody; it is because they are not legal experts & nothing they tell you is legally binding.

 

It is kind of a catch 22 thing: the licensing terms explain this, usually with boilerplate about it being the full extent of the agreement, but you have to read it to find that out. >:(

I do not have a direct problem with Microsoft. I've many products from them.
I also "did" not have a problem that I could not refund, because I expected a license key and download access via Microsoft for Affinity because "the end product" was the same.
But this turned out different like described and this is not described in the part "terms & conditions". 
Might be that I have to less experience with Microsoft store, but which those kind of issues, I will for sure not grow. A customers doesn't want this.
This is also much better arranged by apple and google stores.

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3 hours ago, WMax70 said:

But this turned out different like described and this is not described in the part "terms & conditions". 

Granted it is buried in a number of linked documents that make it not easy to find, but Windows Store purchases are subject to what Microsoft refers to as 'SALT' (Standard Application License Terms) which can be found online, for example here. The first clause of that stipulates that you are granted the right only to "install and use the application on a Windows device or devices that are affiliated with the Microsoft account that you use to access the Windows Store"

 

This is similar to the Mac App Store ("MAS") licensing terms -- there are no individual product keys & all purchases made through these stores are tied to the store account to purchase them.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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19 hours ago, R C-R said:

Granted it is buried in a number of linked documents that make it not easy to find, but Windows Store purchases are subject to what Microsoft refers to as 'SALT' (Standard Application License Terms) which can be found online, for example here. The first clause of that stipulates that you are granted the right only to "install and use the application on a Windows device or devices that are affiliated with the Microsoft account that you use to access the Windows Store"

 

This is similar to the Mac App Store ("MAS") licensing terms -- there are no individual product keys & all purchases made through these stores are tied to the store account to purchase them.

R-C-R

Yes, I see it now. It is like it is.
Does not matter anyway. Hiding behind rules is easy of course.
But it does not chance my intention where I asked for it upfront about the differences wrt purchasing. Who else does / did? (I did not ask it afterwards!)
The question itself also could have raised a flag at the Affinity site and could have let to some additional attention or question like; "What is the purpose of your question?".
It is the easy way to hide behind conditions now. If Affinity now noticed that it was not specific enough, why didn't they ask upfront for more details and the intention of the question?
Would have helped both.
Some forbearance would have gave a lot of positive effect and would cost Affinity nothing, I bought the software it anyway, What would it hurt at the Affinity side?.
I really believe(d) Affinity is (/was) more than "The money is in", thanks bye, from here you an additional number for us, ensure you are not a valued customer.

 

I'm at this moment not sure if I buy more from Affinity in the future and I'm not sure if I'm longer that positive about Affinity like I was in many photo forums before.

"Your just a number...nothing more..." This really hurts customers (like me...)
 

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2 hours ago, WMax70 said:

I asked for it upfront about the differences wrt purchasing

 

Any Serif staff who deal directly with customers should know about the differences between the Affinity Store and the Microsoft Store, with particular reference to MS Store purchases of "digital apps" being non-refundable and lacking a separate product key.

 


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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47 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Any Serif staff who deal directly with customers should know about the differences between the Affinity Store and the Microsoft Store, with particular reference to MS Store purchases of "digital apps" being non-refundable and lacking a separate product key.

 

I agree. But it looks like Affinity hides behind the fact that I was not specific enough.
Fine. But not a good impression at my side.

BTW; I'm now testing ON1, because I really got frustrated due to this.
But, just opening a NEF file seems to result in much better conversion, better colors, less overall softness (better sharpness). I was really impressed.
Tried to compensatie in Affinity with details correction, but it performs way off... not comparable.
Just started the test because of the frustration, but for what I saw already, it might result in a leave of Affinity Photo too....

 

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On 23/03/2018 at 10:30 PM, WMax70 said:

So I asked affinity; "Is there a difference between the microsoft appstore application and buying via the website?"

 

8 minutes ago, WMax70 said:

But [it] looks like Affinity hides behind the fact that I was not specific enough.

 

You asked explicitly about buying, not about program functionality. How much more specific could you have been?? :o

 


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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30 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

 

You asked explicitly about buying, not about program functionality. How much more specific could you have been?? :o

 

Yeah... Don't know. 
-> I corrected the "it"  (Thanks)  ;) 
 

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4 hours ago, WMax70 said:

If Affinity now now noticed that it was not specific enough, why didn't they ask upfront for more details and the intention of the question?

To be fair about it, the Affinity apps were offered for sale on the Windows Store because Windows 10 users starting asking for that in the forums. Among the reasons most often mentioned for that were they liked that no individual product keys were required for Windows Store purchases, which simplified the installation & update process, particularly across multiple PCs. So there was at least some expectation that users would know about the different licensing terms & security model that would require.

 

As it became more apparent that was not obvious to all Windows Store users, as I understand it they did start mentioning that, perhaps not to everybody that contacted customer support, but at least to those who asked anything about licensing or use terms. The staff have apologized in some forum topics about not being more on top of that from the beginning, but they were not intentionally trying to mislead anyone.

 

By the way, it does cost Serif/Affinity more in terms of lost revenue when people buy through the Windows Store than directly from the Affinity one because Microsoft takes a cut of every sale (20% I think) to cover their costs, so if anything they would be more inclined to tell people to buy direct if money was the only thing they cared about.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Just for the info here:
I got an offer to buy ON1. Now two days after testing.
$64 excl. VAT. ($84 in total)
Normal price way over $100 excl. VAT
 

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