Zahra1281 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hi, I would have a question about converting the ICC profiles. If I have .jpg and I paste it into the Affinity Photo file and converting it to different ICC profiles several times, is there any "damage"? For example, when I have a 100 .jpg pictures in one Affinity Photo file with sRGB, I convert file to ColorMatch and then to ProPhoto. Is the same result as converting the original sRGB directly to ProPhoto? Thank you very much for all the answers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstdefence Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I'm not very up on ICC profiles but why would you convert to Colormatch and then ProPhoto? As far as I am aware converting is a destructive process, I would create a copy of any images you want edit prior, then do any editing on the copies, if it doesn't work or looks bad you have the originals to fall back on and you have learned a good lesson in applying ICC Profiles. Quote iMac 27" 2019 Somona 14.3.1, iMac 27" Affinity Designer, Photo & Publisher V1 & V2, Adobe, Inkscape, Vectorstyler, Blender, C4D, Sketchup + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 (Please refrain from licking the screen while using this forum) Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BofG Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 From what I understand ICC profiles are simply a mapping which sit between the source file and the output device (be it a screen, printer etc.) They don't change the file in the way that saving in a different colour space would therefore they should be non-destructive. It's more like a tag to say "take this file and process it this way" rather than "change all the colour properties of this file" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstdefence Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 been doing a bit of reading and referencing Adobe, when an ICC profile is "assigned" it is a non-destructive when a file is "converted" it is a destructive process. I could be wrong but that's how I read it. This is a quote from a post on DPreview: Quote In your Affinity Photo colour settings change the following: RGB Color Profile: this should be your working profile, not the monitor profile. Preferably ProPhoto RGB if you convert from raw. Same goes for the 32-bit RGB Color Profile. I'd uncheck the "Convert open files to working space" -- I don't like unnecessary colour space conversions. But this depends on how you work. I like to set this manually. Look into the Help in Affinity: the "Colour management" chapter. Quote: The chosen profile will be used as the current working space and will be offered when creating new documents, or will be used if you choose to convert an opened file's colour space (discarding its own colour profile). Quote iMac 27" 2019 Somona 14.3.1, iMac 27" Affinity Designer, Photo & Publisher V1 & V2, Adobe, Inkscape, Vectorstyler, Blender, C4D, Sketchup + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 (Please refrain from licking the screen while using this forum) Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v_kyr Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 See for example: Understanding ProPhoto RGB, some color gamuts like ProPhoto are much bigger than sRGB and therefore also cover colors that are not present in other color spaces. Quote ☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan ☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BofG Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, firstdefence said: been doing a bit of reading and referencing Adobe, when an ICC profile is "assigned" it is a non-destructive when a file is "converted" it is a destructive process. I could be wrong but that's how I read it. This is correct, I was assuming the question was for assigning a profile but reading it again (properly) I see the OP mentioned converting. When a profile is 'assigned' it maps from the original colour space (say a nice wide RGB gamut). Changing the assigned profile multiple times destroys nothing - the profile still works off the original colour space. When an image is 'converted' to a new profile, the result of that mapping is then set as the original. Subsequent conversions work from that changed set. So if you convert an RGB image to a CMYK profile, the next conversion (or assignment) will be working from that smaller CMYK gamut rather than the full RGB original. This is my understanding, I have been known to be wrong at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Zahra1281 said: Hi, I would have a question about converting the ICC profiles. If I have .jpg and I paste it into the Affinity Photo file and converting it to different ICC profiles several times, is there any "damage"? For example, when I have a 100 .jpg pictures in one Affinity Photo file with sRGB, I convert file to ColorMatch and then to ProPhoto. Is the same result as converting the original sRGB directly to ProPhoto? Thank you very much for all the answers... Hi Zahra1281 You seem to be getting ICC profiles and colour spaces mixed up. You can't convert files to different ICC profiles. You can apply different ICC profiles, which is not the same thing. You can convert the files working space (or colour space). A typical colour space is Adobe RGB, sRGB or ProPhoto RGB. Whichever one the file is in, affects the actual colour information in the image. This information is device independent. ICC profiles change how that information is displayed, or printed on a particular device. They do not change the information in the image. Basically they "tweak" the image slightly to make up for inconsistencies between devices. As for converting colour spaces, if you look in Preferences, there is an option to "Convert opened files to working space". That will change the image as you load it. i.e. from ProPhoto to sRGB At least, that's the theory as I understand it. Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahra1281 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 hours ago, toltec said: Hi Zahra1281 You seem to be getting ICC profiles and colour spaces mixed up. You can't convert files to different ICC profiles. You can apply different ICC profiles, which is not the same thing. You can convert the files working space (or colour space). A typical colour space is Adobe RGB, sRGB or ProPhoto RGB. Whichever one the file is in, affects the actual colour information in the image. This information is device independent. ICC profiles change how that information is displayed, or printed on a particular device. They do not change the information in the image. Basically they "tweak" the image slightly to make up for inconsistencies between devices. As for converting colour spaces, if you look in Preferences, there is an option to "Convert opened files to working space". That will change the image as you load it. i.e. from ProPhoto to sRGB At least, that's the theory as I understand it. If I understand correctlythe, function "convert ICC profile" only change the original ICC profile in document? So, when I change it I change only the visual scene of the document but do not change the data? Theoretically I can convert ICC profiles many times and my .jpg stay be same like in the begining (in one Affinity Photo file)? (I apologize for weaknesses in English) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahra1281 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 45 minutes ago, owenr said: No, profile conversion changes a document/image's data in an attempt to preserve the visual appearance. Simply assigning a new profile will not change the data, but the appearance may be dramatically changed. So the function "convert ICC profile" de facto converts working space (colour space)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted March 20, 2018 Staff Share Posted March 20, 2018 Hi Zahra1281, Welcome to Affinity Forums If you assign a profile to a document, you are simply tagging the document with a new profile - there's no change to the raw colour values/data data but the appearance/colours of the image may change considerably to reflect the new profile. If you convert a profile to another, the raw colour values of the image will be modified in an effort to keep its visual appearance intact so in this case you have not only changed the associated profile but also the raw colour values/data of the image. This is a destructive process and should only be used for certain purposes for example when preparing a document for a specific output. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software | Affinity Quick Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahra1281 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 23 hours ago, MEB said: Hi Zahra1281, Welcome to Affinity Forums If you assign a profile to a document, you are simply tagging the document with a new profile - there's no change to the raw colour values/data data but the appearance/colours of the image may change considerably to reflect the new profile. If you convert a profile to another, the raw colour values of the image will be modified in an effort to keep its visual appearance intact so in this case you have not only changed the associated profile but also the raw colour values/data of the image. This is a destructive process and should only be used for certain purposes for example when preparing a document for a specific output. Hi, thank you very much for the explanation, I think I understand (theoretically) but, unfortunately, I have a practical problem with which I still do not know the advice. I have a bitmap webdesign, whitch I am creating for a very long time and during the creation I converted file to ColorMatch RGB and later to ProPhoto RGB and I do not know if the input data is invalidated for example by converting to ColorMatch RGB. I did something similar like in this video: Likewise, I have a file with a lot of pictures (mostly .jpg exports of previous works from Photoshop in sRGB) for the web and with this file, unfortunately, I did something similar. So I would like to ask if I can. When I create a document, for example, with a sRGB profile, convert it to ColorMatch RGB and then to ProPhoto RGB, is the same result as if I convert the original sRGB prfofile directly to ProPhoto RGB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted March 21, 2018 Staff Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Zahra1281 said: When I create a document, for example, with a sRGB profile, convert it to ColorMatch RGB and then to ProPhoto RGB, is the same result as if I convert the original sRGB prfofile directly to ProPhoto RGB? Hi Zahra1281, No, the ColorMatch RGB is a slightly wider color space than sRGB but it doesn't cover/overlap all the sRGB space. Some ColorMatch RGB colours can't be accurately represented by the sRGB colour space (and vice versa) so there will be some loss here when you do this conversion. Converting directly from sRGB to ProPhoto RGB is a better option because it covers almost all the sRGB/ColorMatch RGB gamut/colours and so any loss is kept to a minimum. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software | Affinity Quick Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahra1281 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 37 minutes ago, MEB said: Hi Zahra1281, No, the ColorMatch RGB is a slightly wider color space than sRGB but it doesn't cover/overlap all the sRGB space. Some ColorMatch RGB colours can't be accurately represented by the sRGB colour space (and vice versa) so there will be some loss here when you do this conversion. Converting directly from sRGB to ProPhoto RGB is a better option because it covers almost all the sRGB/ColorMatch RGB gamut/colours and so any loss is kept to a minimum. thanks a lot for the explanation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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