Looking for a shortcut

[Polygonius]

Where can i deactivate this apply filter by pressing return? I searched the shorty-properties, but i didnt find this item. 

[walt.farrell]

Deactivate which apply filter? More details, please.

[firstdefence]

Go down the Jitty and turn left at the bus stop and hop over the wall, should cut about 10 mins off  

 

 

[firstdefence]

1 hour ago, Polygonius said:

Where can i deactivate this apply filter by pressing return? I searched the shorty-properties, but i didnt find this item. 

You need to explain this better.

[Polygonius]

Is this so bad explained? However if i have open a destructive-filter-dialog-box and hit return/enter (this key which is in word-processor "new line/break") the filter will applied =(box get closed and the effect is destructive rasterized). Cmd+z will take back the apply, but the filter-box keeps closed and my equations so far are in the nirwarna.

Especially for equations its very nasty, because hitting "return" is an unconscious reflex from word-processors, meaning "new line / end of this break", but NEVER meaning "apply" (translated to word processor it would be "make this in-edtable / close whole document").

 

BTW: return-key seems to be a global key for all boxes which has an "apply" field. By refine mask/selection i get a second prompt with 2 options "apply" or "reject". Apply will apply and reject wiil close the whole refine without appling.  If you had say "apply" via the button this an unnecessary step, because i have 2 times to click apply. If I hit "return" unconscious / by mistake this dialog let miss a third button: "go back to refine /cancel" which means "do  not apply, go back to the refined selection so far". (In other apps in similar prompts this third button is often called "cancel" - a little bit confusing name, but it does exactly this "go back to the "selection/equation...whatever without apply or closing this tool" 

So, this extra-prompt for refine does not help by misstake - i will lost my refine-selection, does not matter which button i click. For wrong "apply" i have always "cmd+z". So this prompt is just slow down. The only thing cmd+z does not do "bring back the selection so far" does this also not offer, so its complete worthless, more: its a nasty slow downer.

 

As long as their is no shorty for bring back the equations/refine... window in its last state, before doing my msitake (maybe shift+cmd+z) i do not want "return" as meaning of "apply". At least not for equations!

And this apply-refine-prompt is just an annoyance - it has no benefit to cmd+z by a mistake. And if i hit regularly it just slows down without any reason.

 

[firstdefence]

@Polygonius I can see your frustration but you will have to put in a feature request to modify the Equation Panel controls, prompts and workflow as there is no way to alter that Equation Panel other than by changing the programming of the app.

 

I do like a lot of your idea's and it's great that you share your observations, without this improvements cannot always be seen.

[Polygonius]

Thanks, yeah i will do - I have a list for requests  AP is such a nice app, all my "critic" comes with love for my child;-) 

[John Rostron]

2 hours ago, Polygonius said:

Is this so bad explained? However if i have open a destructive-filter-dialog-box and hit return/enter (this key which is in word-processor "new line/break") the filter will applied =(box get closed and the effect is destructive rasterized). Cmd+z will take back the apply, but the filter-box keeps closed and my equations so far are in the nirwarna.

I would guess that you are using the Filter > Distort > Equations filter. I have just tried this by entering an equation for x and pressing Enter. The image changes, but nothing else happens. It does not even move onto the y= line. Same with entering an equation for y. Maybe it is because you are on OSX; I am on Windows. Rather than post on the Feature Requests, I would suggest that you report it as a Bug on Apple, since it works OK on Windows.

John

[Polygonius]

37 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

I would guess that you are using the Filter > Distort > Equations filter. I have just tried this by entering an equation for x and pressing Enter. .....

 Maybe it is because you are on OSX; I am on Windows... I would suggest that you report it as a Bug on Apple, since it works OK on Windows.

 

Right,  i mean this filter. But i guess Serif sees this "apply by enter/return" as a feature, not bug. And in most cases it is a feauture (i have no reason to hit enter/return in other filter/selection... except for doing apply. But for equations its really nasty, this reflex to hit enter/return after a line is so deep, i cannot give up). 

And on windows enter is not associated to apply for any filter or just equations?????

[John Rostron]

25 minutes ago, Polygonius said:

Right,  i mean this filter. But i guess Serif sees this "apply by enter/return" as a feature, not bug. And in most cases it is a feauture (i have no reason to hit enter/return in other filter/selection... except for doing apply. But for equations its really nasty, this reflex to hit enter/return after a line is so deep, i cannot give up). 

And on windows enter is not associated to apply for any filter or just equations?????

I would flag it as a bug rather than a feature because it works for me in Windows, but not for you on Apple.

John

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

Maybe it is because you are on OSX; I am on Windows. Rather than post on the Feature Requests, I would suggest that you report it as a Bug on Apple, since it works OK on Windows.

Yes, on Macs it does seem to be a bug: pressing Return (or Enter) applies the Equations Filter, closes the filter window, & there is no way to 'undo' that & get back whatever equation expression(s) that might have been entered into its fields. That needs to be fixed!

 

That said, regarding the Return key's equivalence to 'apply' it has been used for that literally for decades, not just in graphics apps but also (for example) in Mac dialog boxes as the keyboard equivalent of the "OK" or other default 'do it' buttons, in Finder to enter & exit the name field when renaming a Finder item, etc. Only in paragraph oriented word processing & similar text editing contexts is it commonly used to enter 'hard returns" to start a new paragraph but even there differences in how the various combinations of LF, CR, EOL, NEL, & other newline indicators are interpreted by different apps & OS's can cause portability issues.

 

Point being, the function of the Return (& Enter) keys are always dependent on the current context so it is necessary to be aware of that, independently of any bugs caused by a wrongly applied context in the UI, which I think is the problem here with the Mac Affinity apps.

[MEB]

Hi Polygonius, all,

I will report/raise this issue with the dev team and see what they say. Currently there's an inconsistency between the way Mac and Windows versions work which must be fixed.

[Polygonius]

9 hours ago, R C-R said:

That said, regarding the Return key's equivalence to 'apply' it has been used for that literally for decades, not just in graphics apps but also (for example) in Mac dialog boxes as the keyboard equivalent of the "OK" or other default 'do it' buttons,

Yeah, and as i said i see this also MOSTLY more as a feature than a misbehavior, but only for  this 3-slider"dialog/tool-boxes" BUT NOT for this ones, which are more remember to a text-app, like equations....

 

Its difficult to find here a GENERAL consens. Enter can be a speed up, instead mouseclick to "apply" and its in similar context often used for. (in my case - i´m a right-hand-man, i do not often use it much when working primary with sliders, cause "ENTER" is on my mousehand-way, so moving mouse is often faster than let the mouse and switch to keyboard "as shortcut" - Except in text-apps: here my right hand is MOSTLY on the keybord and my little finger very fast on "return"). 

I have set "esc" (my left hand) to things like "cancel, deselect, do not apply..." and thats really a shortcut FOR ME. But for a left-hand-man it maybe doesnt really speed up. So thats what i say: It does not matter is that common - for some people just the opposite is more useful. It does not matter WHY a coustomizer wish this, do not ask, give him this option!

Thats another reason why "options" are so important for "power-users". If i had 2 apps, mostly doing the same - i would take this one, which i can more "customize".

 

### Excurs

Apple/OSX is the opposite of custumization (but i love my 5k imac and the lack of driver-struggles each os-update and stuff like this)  and Apple-Logic (its a DAW, taken from Emagic, and inherit its "complex-customization) -  is an example of well customization. I prefer (for other reasons) another DAW, but Logic is a very good example how deep "customizable" can go.

 

 

At least the search-field which prompts "orders" - Serif should overtake. But for version 1.x i am really happy with Serifs possibility of costumization - most apps goes never so deep: Pages & co are laugh-numbers.

The holy Steve Jobs himself has decided nobody needs a right-mouse-button, so its LAW! What kind of arrogance for more than 2 decades... Apple needs very very  long to confess: This was a mistake! And i´m afraid they did not learn and will need another periodes to confess: The concept of some other are better than our! What are Clowns! 

 

Well, customization is a weak reason to buy an app, but a good reason to keep old customers to us! As more i "invest" in an app, as more loyal i will be. And as more as small updates (= we see this as gifts) come, as more my loyalty will grow. The era of ONE standard-app (living in an exclusive aura of mystery / giving no details out...because we do not need, we are #1...) are completly gone! Today a developer must be also an entertainer: Custoumer want to know, what can we happen next months? 

End of excurse####

 

@MEB:

Good news. But please read my semron again. Concistency is maybe not the best choice for all detail-ask. The goal is to implement a "general consistency" WITH the option to customize this, if i (for what reason ever) do not want this "taste"! A good test for implement an option or not, is maybe: if just 2 developer have a different suggestion how a thing has to come implement, than also 1000 people will have a different viwe = option need! If all dev have more/less the same opinion, so no option is need. Thats as fist-rule.