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Smoothing and stabilization is a great feature, but sometimes I need to draw a line from the hand, a bumpy line without smoothing. How do I set it up? For pencil and brush.

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Just turn off the Stabliser

 

5a987e3e30b54_ScreenShot2.png.252d87461d34e0073eb8141d92d1b7cf.png


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Turn the stabilizer off.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404, Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404. Affinity Store.
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If I turn off the stabilizer (great function), the line is still smoother. It is not completely smoothed, but it is not "out of hand". Even without the stabilizer it is a little smoothed. I need to turn off the stabilizer completely. Try it. The line always smoothes. With or without stabilizer.
Try Pixel Persona. Line is without a stabilizer. But I need a vector.
For example, a free Inkscape can do it.

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1 hour ago, J a n said:

Try it. The line always smoothes. With or without stabilizer. Try Pixel Persona.

It is not smoothed at all for me. But you said that you need a vector so I am unsure what you mean. Are you talking about applying a brush stroke to a vector shape drawn with the Pen Tool or one of the others available in the Draw Persona?

Edited by R C-R
edited for clarity

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The line is a bit smoothed even without a stabilizer.
Of course, I draw a pencil or a brush in Draw Persona.
It's great that stabilization works. Thank you for it. But right now I need a really bumpy, uneven line.
So far, I have two solutions.
1) large zoom (at least 400%) > draw a line > then the line is roughened.
2) use Inkscape.

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By roughened, do you mean pixelated, the kind of thing you get when using the Pixel Tool or Paint Brush Tool in Affinity Designer's Pixel Persona, or something else? If you are in the Pixel Persona & turn off the brush stabilizer, there is no smoothing applied -- whatever you draw with the Paint Brush Tool will produce anti-aliased edges, but that is not the same thing.

 

Which Persona are you in?


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14 minutes ago, owenr said:

Both AD and Inkscape provide the user with control over drawing smoothness, but Inkscape allows a far more jittery path to be drawn than can be achieved in AD when the apps are displaying the document at a given zoom level during the drawing operation.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I never noticed this because I almost always draw paths with these vector tools at a large enough size on the canvas that it is easy & comfortable to make them as jittery as I want, & then later resize them as needed, along with any other vector objects that I wanted to rescale. If I needed to create very jittery paths at a very fine scale to begin with, it would be most natural to me to zoom in & out (& maybe pan) on-the-fly as needed, mostly because otherwise my old eyes could not see what I was doing. :S


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35 minutes ago, owenr said:

Drawing at some given scale isn't the same as drawing at a smaller scale. The nervous system and skeleto-muscular system will produce a line with different characteristics.

Be that as it may, why try to draw anything at a scale that makes it difficult or impossible to clearly see what you are drawing? For example, consider drawing anything with a stroke width of less than 1 pixel, or at any other width significantly smaller than the current zoom level can display with any accuracy.


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Jan,

I'm afraid what you are looking for does not currently exist. Any freehand vector line you make, whether the stabilizer is turned off or on, will alway slightly auto-correct its drawn curve.


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1 hour ago, owenr said:

You're missing the point. It's about capturing the artist's unique "hand", not about clearly seeing what is being drawn.

I find it hard to believe that the artist's "eye" is not also an important part of this, if you want to put it in those metaphorical terms, but maybe that is just me?


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Using the Vector Brush or Pencil will always result in a "smoother than a scribble" line because of the nature of the nodes. A real world comparison over a brushed line, scribbled or not would likely show a similarity anyway. The negligible smoothing with Stabiliser turned off doesn't detract from the artist's uniqueness. The only way I can see to get a more realistic draw would be to use pixel based brushes to get that scratchiness and texture.

 

I think zooming in to pick fault is odd, you wouldn't get a loupe on a sketch and critique the lines.


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35 minutes ago, owenr said:

Nobody said the artist's eye isn't important.

You are not getting the point, as usual.

So what exactly is the point of considering the artist's "hand" without also considering the "eye"? How can you separate one from the other as if they were somehow not interdependent? I really don't get the point of doing that. No offense intended but it seems like an unrealistic & somewhat contrived way to think about it, & more to the point here as somehow a desirable feature for an app to provide a way to quite literally draw something you can't see clearly.


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2 comments.

 

1st, regarding eye hand co-ordination. When people with either/both eye/hand problems draw, they produce ever larger, simple, broad outlines. Look at late works by Matisse, for instance. He still had his hand, but not the eye sight to guide it except in broad motions. 

***

Looking at Inkscape vs AD, it appears that Inkscape's default pencil line is a huge series of mouse position captures, whichare joined into a slightly smoothed vector compilation of straight line dashes. In Inkscape, the mass of point samples can be smoothed by "simplify."  Affinity takes a different approach, and from what I can perceive, turns the mouse point samples into smooth beziers by default. I hesitate to suggest that Affinity have a pencil sub-category called "sketch." that doesn't produce smooth nodes.

 

But if Inkscape gives the desired jaggedy line, why not make it there, and import an .svg into AD?

 

 


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4 hours ago, owenr said:

Furthermore, the problem isn't a case of something that can't be seen clearly.

I make no claim about how artistic my "hand" is, but consider the attached tiny canvas.afdesign file. View it at actual size & tell me how clearly you can see the 26 curves it contains, or imagine trying to draw anything like that at that view size.

 

This is a 'sanitized' copy of curves made to demonstrate to a friend the extremely high resolution & zoom range available in Affinity Designer. All the curves were made with the Pencil Tool in the Draw Persona. I don't remember the zoom setting we were using for these curves but it was only a tiny fraction of the full range. Playing around, we made some much smaller curves with stroke widths down to around 0.0001 inch & overall sizes on the order of 0.0015 in wide, but they are not suitable for pubic a forum. (It is possible beer was involved but that is all I will say about that. ;))

 

7 hours ago, JimmyJack said:

But, Off should be Off.

Why? What point is there to making a feature do something that would be at best marginally usable & at worst would result in the creation of lots of extraneous individual nodes that you would not even realize were there unless you zoomed way in to see them? Isn't the whole point of vector objects that they are resolution independent?

 

Seriously, I truly do not get the point of this discussion. Affinity makes it possible to work at extremely high zoom levels & create very fine details that can be scaled to any size without loss of resolution. Not using that capability to its full extent seems to me like a self-imposed handicap that only makes things harder than they need to be. I do not understand why anyone would want to do that.


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Hmm … I have been following this discussion with interest for a while, for I also believe that Affinity Designer adds a little too much default smoothing to vector paths, when the stabilisers are off. True, in earlier versions of Designer there were no stabilisers, so in a way, applying the default stabilisation was a kind of compromise solution. But now, since the stabilisers are available, I would find it indeed useful if Designer translated the actual moves of the drawing hand a little more faithfully into the vector realm.

 

R C-R, let me explain why I believe this is important. Have a look at this drawing by Paul Klee, and please use some imagination when you look at this picture, for I couldn’t find a better example or an image at higher resolution. When you examine the line quality, you will see that it is jittery in a very deliberate way. You can almost feel the pen scratch on the paper and record the actions of the drawing hand. As I said, you will have to use some imagination to complete the impression you would have in front of the original.

 

Now, in principle, you could reproduce this line quality in Affinity Designer, by working at a very high zoom level and constructing each pen stroke from a host of little elements that would collectively create the impression of the jittery stroke when zooming out. But this is not the way you would draw. You would not construct your pen strokes this way, but you would simply trust the “macroscopic” precision of your recording material, pen, paper, and ink. There is no zooming in, when you physically draw.

 

And this “macroscopic” precision is currently missing in Designer. If Paul Klee would have been a digital artist, I believe he would have been indeed disappointed with the default smoothing applied to strokes of the vector pencil. Jimmy Jack’s GIF should prove how drastically the default smoothing is actually kicking in, after the digital pen is lifted from the tablet. I am sure, Klee would have loved to get a lot more nodes and a lot more cusp nodes instead of the curve nodes everywhere.

 

Hope that makes sense … :)

Alex

 

Klee.thumb.jpg.eba5c286de7329f4a0d02f786e0d7c7e.jpg

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