How can I open a tif without a profile?

[Stuart444]

iI am trying to print a test chart so that  I can send the print to the paper manufacturer for them to give me a customised ICC profile. Their instructions are all aimed at PS users and one step requires the user to "Leave as it is (don't color manage)" when opening the file. When I open the file I get a notification that Affinity Photo has converted it to sRGB IEC 61966-2.1. I can't find a way to make it not convert it, and I can't find a "convert ICC profile" option to return it to no profile.

Please can you tell me how to open and print this document with no profile?

Thanks.

[stokerg]

Hi Stuart Ord,

 

Under Preferences>Colour you can disable Convert Open Files to working space, that may help.

 

But from speaking to @Lee D who used a similar service to the one you are using, he was advised not to print the tif file from a Photo editor and to instead print it from Adobe Colour Print Utility as this ensure there is no colour management getting in the way.  The steps he followed are on this link, it may be for a different company to the one you are using but i'd expect they both have the same/similar  process.  

[Stuart444]

Thanks stokerg. I had disabled this in my preferences (but left the "warn me" box checked) but when I re-opened the file it still warned me that it had converted it. Seems a bit illogical to leave the "warn me" box available if the "convert" box is unchecked, but it allowed me to.

I've just closed Affinity and re-opened it in case that made a difference, but it didn't.

I next unchecked the "warn me" box and re-opened it - and it warned me that it had done it again. Hmm. It seems to have, as Convert ICC and Assign ICC both have that profile highlighted. (Do you know the difference between these two options, they sound much the same to me.)

I've been having a session learning about ICC profiles, and Pinnacle 's procedure has you downloading a test file to print using PS and they give detailed instructions on this. However I also was after some PermaJet profiles and their system is to use Adobe Colour Print Utility which I used and printed, so I have that software and could do the same for the Pinnacle test files. I might ask them what the pros and cons are. But it's also making me learn a bit more about colour management in Affinity, which must be good.

Now I've followed your / @LeeD 's link I see it's the same route I took mentioned above (PermaJet website).

[smadell]

Converting and Assigning color profiles are definitely different animals. An image’s colors are defined by numerical triplets (assuming you use an RGB model) with values for Red, Green, and Blue. If you open an image, all the pixels have an RGB triplet assigned. The color profile (sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto) is what defines the actual color that the triplet displays.

 

If you open an image in one profile and then Convert it to a different profile, the software will attempt to match the color. Doing this will change the values of the triplets so that the colors match as nicely as possible. If you open that same image and choose Assign color profile, the software will assume that the numerical triplet values are correct and will change the colors you see so that they correspond to the gamut of the new assigned profile.

 

I ran into this issue recently. For some reason, a photo that I know was created in sRGB was opened in Affinity. For reasons unknown, the image had no color profile attached to the file. Affinity was set up to use the ProPhoto color profile if no other profile was available, and this resulted in the sRGB file getting remapped to the much wider gamut of ProPhoto. The image was super-saturated. The fix was to choose Aaaign Color Profile... and reset the image to sRGB. That cured the oversaturation problem.

[Stuart444]

That's fascinating, thanks smadell.

I learned my photography in the 1960s-70s when the technical options were much fewer and people generally didn't need to bother with how colours came to be as seen, they just chose their brand of slide film, used filters and (for a few) adjusted their enlarger colour filtration (or used mono, as I mostly did). I'm starting to realise (but am yet to understand) the huge technical infrastructure that modern colour rendition is based on. I still work up my competition prints by inspection of a test print and tweaking the image in Affinity until the result is what I want to see. My current drive is to try to modernise my approach so that fewer test prints are needed.

I have a long way to go. For example, I use 3 monitors, my laptop, a Dell monitor and an AOC monitor, as an extended desktop. I calibrated them all with ColorMunki yesterday, yet when I straddle 2 screens with (say) this window or a test file, the colours are noticeably different. The Dell (which I specifically bought as it was recommended for good colour rendition) is still different and to my eye inferior to the other two which are similar to each other. But that's not an Affinity issue. Can you suggest any good online sources of tuition on colour rendition?

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, Stuart444 said:

Can you suggest any good online sources of tuition on colour rendition?

I am not sure if this is what you are looking for but the Cambridge in Colour web site has a wealth of information about color management, among many other topics. The tutorials section provides links to dozens of articles, all well written & presented in easy to understand language.

[Stuart444]

Thanks R C-R. I think I've stumbled across that site before, but now I have had a better look it does look to be well suited to what I need.

 

[smadell]

Hey, Stuart444...

As far as the monitor calibration goes, I have a couple of additional suggestions:

1) Try using displayCAL instead of the ColorMunki software. You can still use the hardware (the colorimeter) but the software (free!) is more complete. It’s really a visit to Valley of the Nerds, but try to wade through it. It’s worth trying.

2) In addition to color calibration, choose a White Point. Most monitors are too blue, and throw your other colors off. I set mine to 5000K, so that it’s optimized for daylight viewing. This is also a good white point when you’ll be doing a bunch of prints.

3) Lower the brightness of your monitor. I have mine set to 100 candelas. This is a good way to keep your prints from looking “too dark,” (which really means that your monitor is too bright).

4) Keep the gamma at 2.2.

[Stuart444]

OK, I'm game to give it a try. My first attempt at installing displayCAL didn't go well I chose the "Zero install" option and I kept getting error messages about file sizes being other than expected. So I tried the "Standalone" version and that seemed to go OK. It automatically installed Argyle CMS during its setup. It seems to run and I've tried some guessing for many parameters but most are left as default values. So I'm setting -

Disiplay - Dell U2412M @ 1920, -102, 1920x1200

Instrument - i1 DisplayPro, ColorMunki Display

Mode - LCD (generic)

White and black drift - unchecked

Correction - Auto (None)

 

Interactive display adjustment - checked. Update unchecked

Whitepoint - color temperature - 5000K

White level - As measured

Tone curve - Gamma 2.2

Calibration speed - aboout 1/3

 

Profile quality - 100%

Testchart - auto-optimised

Amount of patches - about 1/4

Profile name - %dns %out %Y-%m-%d %H-%M %cb %wp %cB %ck %cg %cq-%pq %pt

 

3D LUT is greyed out

 

Testchart or reference - extended verification testchart, folder - greyed out, matrix - 51

Simulated profile, simulate whitepoint, relative to display - all unchecked

Click calibrate and profile - get a "measurement area" window. Black background unchecked

Start - error - new_disprd failed with "Instrument Access Failure"

 

The ColorMunki is flashing on its side amd it had made the usual "connected" sound on inserting its USB plug.

 

Can you suggest what is wrong here?

 

[smadell]

Hi, Stuart...

This is from the xRite Color Munki site:

https://www.xrite.com/service-support/faq_i1display_pro_and_argyll_software

[Stuart444]

Thanks, smadell. I followed your link and tried to follow their instructions, but couldn't find the driver they were saying causes the problem, so I've got no further. Having the colorMunki connected I recalibrated with their software and the result on my Dell monitor was worse if anything. I think I'll contact them and ask for assistance. Thanks for your help.

[smadell]

Hope you can get things to work, Stuart.